Including a martial art in your fitness routine

[neodyn55]

I'm thinking of taking up Aikido, and was wondering how it would fit into a typical strength training routine? Say, for example, a full body routine 3x a week. Would it be OK to fit this in on the off days? why or why not?

I'm thinking a session of Aikido is like cardio. Maybe a bit of HIIT.

 

[presidentender]

Aikido is designed to be gentle. It's all about using the other guy's momentum to move him in ways he doesn't want to. You'll gain balance, strength, and flexibility, but the strength and endurance you gain will be less than Judo, Jujitsu, or another grappling art. Aikido's benefits are like Yoga's, from what I hear.

Take this with a grain of salt. The only Aikido I ever did was a few moves that tied in well with freestyle wrestling, and most of my training has been Judo. Aikido is a legitimate style, but the physical health benefits might be different from what you are looking for. There's also some philosophy involved which you may or may not be into.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Aikido is probably one of the more useless arts. I would say find something a bit better. I'm not trying to be an elitist, but Aikido is very hard to apply unless in very specific situations. There are others that are much more applicable: taekwondo, (brazilian) jiu jitsu, judo, wushu, krav maga, muay thai, or even regular kickboxing. Many of those have a very strenuous cardio load (Muay Thai, kickboxing, krav maga, BJJ depending on the instructor) and could be used as HIIT.

 

[brikis98]

it's perfectly fine to do cardio on your off days from lifting. in fact, i don't think a person is properly "in shape" or healthy if they only do resistance training and no cardio at all. if you're just starting out, or not in particularly good cardio shape already, you'll want to ease into it so you don't burn yourself out. start slow (ie, add 1 day of cardio per week) and work your way up, letting your body adapt as you go.

martial arts in general is a great form of cardio and depending on the type and the instructor, can contain a mix of slow cardio (if they make you jog or jump rope for a while), high intensity interval training (heavy bag training and fighting in general usually goes in short bursts & intervals), plyometric exercises (explosive movements where you generate lots of power in a short time) and even light resistance training (push-ups, pull-ups, etc). The last two - plyometric & resistance training - might interfere somewhat with your lifting, especially in the beginning, but over time you'll probably adapt and be able to handle it.

finally, I don't really know enough about Aikido in particular to judge it properly. practicality aside - after all, how often do you get into fights? - I would guess that Aikido is not the most cardio-intensive martial art out there. any martial art that involves large amounts of kickboxing and wrestling movements is likely to be a much tougher cardio workout.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
...taekwondo...

You can't be serious. It's very difficult to find a decent Taekwondo school (McDojos, though, are easy). Tip point sparring is prevalent, and the art as it is practiced in the US is a far cry from the original and practical version used by the Korean military.

The other arts you list are great. I'm a huge fan of kickboxing for practicality. I'm too nice to Aikido, perhaps (they don't even randori! It's all half-speed, you practice on me, I practice on you crap!), but TKD isn't much of an alternative.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
...taekwondo...

You can't be serious. It's very difficult to find a decent Taekwondo school (McDojos, though, are easy). Tip point sparring is prevalent, and the art as it is practiced in the US is a far cry from the original and practical version used by the Korean military.

The other arts you list are great. I'm a huge fan of kickboxing for practicality. I'm too nice to Aikido, perhaps (they don't even randori! It's all half-speed, you practice on me, I practice on you crap!), but TKD isn't much of an alternative.

TKD, if you DO find a good school, is actually pretty great. I have two friends that have found such and are pretty impressive. One of my friends (a girl) was sparring with my other friend (a guy). She bloodied him up on accident and she wasn't even trying. Needless to say, I was fairly impressed. I agree that it's not the best martial art, but I would honestly say it's better than Aikido.

Optimally, I would suggest Muay Thai, BJJ, and Krav Maga as the best. The other ones were just other suggestions for those who have a different opinion than me.

 

[wwswimming]

i used to think Capoeira was "laid back" till i saw that video of Lateef Crowder
(Capoeira) sparring with some Muay Thai guy.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CsbVyGtQo4g

i did aikido for a few years. i enjoyed the emphasis on stretching & ukemi
(falling skills). there was something about watching the black belts stretch
that made we want to stretch. which led to yoga.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I can't speak for Aikido practitioners elsewhere, but the sessions I did with the folks from the local one, Dr. Walker, did not provide a good cardio or any other type of workout, for someone in good shape. Like any system, it has some "pearls" but the attachments are uber hard to make, most the scenarios they work off of are nonsense IMO, and the people I trained with couldn't hope to perform most of it on me unless I "helped them out" while trading being Uke. They didn't seem to know how to deal with leg kicks, and they had a 10yr+ practitioner that I would worry about getting hurt if he got in a real fight. Of course, as the saying has it, there are no great martial arts, only great martial artist.

Again, just my personal experience with the locals, but it was definitely way more art and "science", than functional throwdown. If you get good HIIT or cardio from it,. it certainly diverges from what I've been exposed to.

 

[neodyn55]

Thanks for the replies all. I'm going to look up all the martial arts listed here; then I got to figure out a decent school in the neighborhood. Maybe I'll try Aikido in ten years time, but I want something to get the blood pumping, so to speak. Beats running on the treadmill any day and.

So I;m going to take a look and see what's offered. BTW, no one's mentioned Karate yet. Is that something only kids learn these days?

 

[neodyn55]

The other thing is - this is just me - a martial art would result in a more well rounded fitness routine. Considering that just a few thousand years ago, we were primarily hunter gatherers, the human body should be eminently suited for fighting type moves. i.e., it's more 'natural' than barbells and dumbbells. what do you think?

 

[Feneant2]

Originally posted by: neodyn55
So I;m going to take a look and see what's offered. BTW, no one's mentioned Karate yet. Is that something only kids learn these days?

Not really, I started karate at 27 and I was one of the youngest in the adult class. Karate is not like it used to be in a lot of clubs unless you train to fight. It is a great mix of cardio and fighting techniques but you won't leave battered and bruised like in the old days. I guess it would depend on your master though but the school I attend is fairly easy going which is good for me since I'd rather not have someone behind me with a shinai for when I'm too slow or not good enough.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged One of my friends (a girl) was sparring with my other friend (a guy). She bloodied him up on accident and she wasn't even trying. Needless to say, I was fairly impressed.

When I was a kid, I hit my brother with a hammerefist while sparring in headgear and gloves and gave him a bloody nose. It was easy. Are you impressed? I'm not saying that every TKD dojo is useless, or that the art itself is no good. The thing is, it lends itself to uselessness; the lack of grappling and overuse of defensive gear and emphasis on those cool looking high kicks makes it easy to teach wrong and difficult to use properly, just as the lack of Randori makes Aikido difficult use properly.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged One of my friends (a girl) was sparring with my other friend (a guy). She bloodied him up on accident and she wasn't even trying. Needless to say, I was fairly impressed.

When I was a kid, I hit my brother with a hammerefist while sparring in headgear and gloves and gave him a bloody nose. It was easy. Are you impressed? I'm not saying that every TKD dojo is useless, or that the art itself is no good. The thing is, it lends itself to uselessness; the lack of grappling and overuse of defensive gear and emphasis on those cool looking high kicks makes it easy to teach wrong and difficult to use properly, just as the lack of Randori makes Aikido difficult use properly.

Oh no, I wasn't impressed by the fact that she made him bleed. I was impressed with the fact that he is one of the best defensive fighters I've met and she got through. Her movements and variations of combinations was what impressed me. I agree that any art that does not cover some form of grappling is not well-rounded (I do BJJ solely), but I was impressed with her efforts. Some of those kicks are killer and personally would like yo be able to do some of them. However, the opportunity for many of them arises rarely.

 

[Invisible Evil]

I have been a student of Shotokan for nearly 17 years. My Sensei Bob Allen is a traditionalist with the mentality of excuse my French beating the shit out of you. I personally love it, but now that everything is on eggshells he has his son teach a more laid back session for the mom's out there.

Back on track though. In Shotokan we practice a technique called "Kata" this enables power from every blow we attempt to land, this helps out tremendously in breathing which assisted me personally in cardio training.

That is just one of the benefits of Shotokan.
I would recommend searching for a traditional Shotokan Dojo and look into it, We here at ours love visitors who stop in to watch, we don't let people in at all times but during general demonstration we do that way you can ask questions and get information from beginners to the advances.

A warning though it is a rush and you will not want to quit! It will hand you your but though.


On a side note I have to listen to the whole This is better than that all the time here. It gets old.
I would challenge ANYONE to go up against a senior black belt in Taekwondo, or Aikido, and ESPECIALLY Shotokan wink
And pop off about the style they devote themselves to constantly. First you will be asked to kindly be respectful towards that person, and if you persist you might just get a demonstration yourself.

Any Martial Art given devotion is not only impressive, but live changing.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: Invisible Evil
I would challenge ANYONE to go up against a senior black belt in Taekwondo, or Aikido, and ESPECIALLY Shotokan wink
And pop off about the style they devote themselves to constantly. First you will be asked to kindly be respectful towards that person, and if you persist you might just get a demonstration yourself.

I wouldn't do that, because that would be rude. There's certainly value in all martial arts, just as there is in all physical activity, but a great many of them have become so abstracted as to be more artful and less martial.

Funny story, though. When I was perhaps ten or twelve, I thought myself a great and powerful warrior. We had challenge randori, wherein we could choose who to practice with. Foolish young brat that I was, I chose my sensei. He had an older boy pin me three or four times, then explained how disrespectful it was for me to challenge him, and how to ask with proper respect in Japanese.

Shotokan gets good marks for including sparring (there's even Shotokan Aikido, I think- they do Randori, which makes it good for cardio and a legitimate fight training).

 

[conorvansmack]

Muay Thai is a great workout. Where are you located? There are some great gyms around the county. I did it for about 6 months and it was a great workout. I liked it because I was always learning something new. For me, martial arts was great because it stimulated my mind (learning something new) and my body. The gym also had a BJJ instructor who fights in the UFC. That was also an excellent workout.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: Invisible Evil
I have been a student of Shotokan for nearly 17 years. My Sensei Bob Allen is a traditionalist with the mentality of excuse my French beating the shit out of you. I personally love it, but now that everything is on eggshells he has his son teach a more laid back session for the mom's out there.

Back on track though. In Shotokan we practice a technique called "Kata" this enables power from every blow we attempt to land, this helps out tremendously in breathing which assisted me personally in cardio training.

That is just one of the benefits of Shotokan.
I would recommend searching for a traditional Shotokan Dojo and look into it, We here at ours love visitors who stop in to watch, we don't let people in at all times but during general demonstration we do that way you can ask questions and get information from beginners to the advances.

A warning though it is a rush and you will not want to quit! It will hand you your but though.


On a side note I have to listen to the whole This is better than that all the time here. It gets old.
I would challenge ANYONE to go up against a senior black belt in Taekwondo, or Aikido, and ESPECIALLY Shotokan wink
And pop off about the style they devote themselves to constantly. First you will be asked to kindly be respectful towards that person, and if you persist you might just get a demonstration yourself.

Any Martial Art given devotion is not only impressive, but live changing.

To each his own, really. However, I would like to see anybody untrained in an art take on a black belt in any martial art. That's quite a poor comparison With black belts against black belts, Aikido proves to be pretty low on the rungs. It can't defend many powerful strikes and takedowns. It bets on people rushing or doing things that are unplanned and spontaneous. I would like to see an MMA fighter vs. a black belt in Aikido. That would be a rip-roaring time

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I'm almost 42, been involved in some system or another since I was 14. Never belt trained in any system past shodan. Through my teens I did tournament and amateur full-contact fighting, FBBA *Florida Black Belt Association*, FAME, WKA, PKA, sactioned events. Growing up a few miles from Don "the dragon" Wilson (our home grown hero back then) fighting sports and M.A. were both very popular, and competitive, here. The rest of my bio includes having worked out with many different systems over the years. Most reputable people in the M.A. and boxing community welcomed the "cultural exchanges". We would pick each others brains, do compare and contrast, and fight/spar/kumite.

Having prefaced my following remarks

Originally posted by: Invisible Evil

I would challenge ANYONE to go up against a senior black belt in Taekwondo, or Aikido, and ESPECIALLY Shotokan

Been there, done that, but the atmosphere was always one of camaraderie, good sportsmanship, or competition. No disrespect to you intended, but I find that comment silly. Belt rankings mean dick, it is my opinion , that its more about the individual than the system. True, some systems are more "complete" and functional than others, but a motivated and gifted individual will excel even in a system considered deficient by others. I've seen enough belt factories, self-promoted "Masters", and poorly conditioned 4th+ dan BBs with sloppy technique in my time, to let "senior" rankings hold me in any awe, in and of themselves. I've also run into many guys, that looked highly impressive during warm ups, some enough to give me a bit of a pucker factor before getting in with them, that couldn't fight for crap.

I understand my comments probably read badly, but honestly, it is just that I'm disenchanted with all the horse shit I've witnessed over more than a quarter of a century. It is why I've always appreciated all forms of full-contact fighting, including H.S. and college wrestling and Boxing. It is all no nonsense, bring your A game, or you are going to get an ass whipping stuff. Too many "Dojos" are just capitalism, a small biz venture for the proprietor.

 

[neodyn55]

Originally posted by: conorvansmack
Muay Thai is a great workout. Where are you located? There are some great gyms around the county. I did it for about 6 months and it was a great workout. I liked it because I was always learning something new. For me, martial arts was great because it stimulated my mind (learning something new) and my body. The gym also had a BJJ instructor who fights in the UFC. That was also an excellent workout.

I'm in NJ, around the coast.. my Gym, for whatever reason, doesn't offer any martial arts training, so I have to get to a dojo of sorts. Around my area, these are the most popular offerings:

Karate, Kickboxing, Aikido, Taek Kwon Do, BJJ and Muay Thai.

I'm probably going with one of Muay Thai, Kickboxing, BJJ or Karate, depending on the cost. I would prefer to learn a martial art from a different country, so it's probably not going to be plain kickboxing.

Does Karate have any grappling focus? what about Muay Thai? Alternately, does BJJ have anything more than grappling? Ideally, I'd like whatever I learn to have some real world focus - I don't really get into fights, but it'll be comforting knowing that *if* it happens, I'll at least have something more than fists. I also hear that most fights end up on the floor, so BJJ is going to be really useful in that respect. Thoughts?

Also, all your martial art trainees - how many years, and how far did you get? Do you do 2x or 3x a week? I'm planning to start my classes next month around this time. I'm just wondering if there's anything special I can do, exercise wise, to make the transition easier (like more stretching, specific strength training, etc)

Thanks for all the comments guys, I'm really learning quite a bit!

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: neodyn55

I'm in NJ, around the coast.. my Gym, for whatever reason, doesn't offer any martial arts training, so I have to get to a dojo of sorts. Around my area, these are the most popular offerings:

Karate, Kickboxing, Aikido, Taek Kwon Do, BJJ and Muay Thai.

I'm probably going with one of Muay Thai, Kickboxing, BJJ or Karate, depending on the cost. I would prefer to learn a martial art from a different country, so it's probably not going to be plain kickboxing.

Does Karate have any grappling focus? what about Muay Thai? Alternately, does BJJ have anything more than grappling? Ideally, I'd like whatever I learn to have some real world focus - I don't really get into fights, but it'll be comforting knowing that *if* it happens, I'll at least have something more than fists. I also hear that most fights end up on the floor, so BJJ is going to be really useful in that respect. Thoughts?

Also, all your martial art trainees - how many years, and how far did you get? Do you do 2x or 3x a week? I'm planning to start my classes next month around this time. I'm just wondering if there's anything special I can do, exercise wise, to make the transition easier (like more stretching, specific strength training, etc)

Thanks for all the comments guys, I'm really learning quite a bit!

Why are you against the idea of an American martial art? There's nothing magical about Asian (or Brazilian, for that matter) martial arts. As far as that goes, Gracie BJJ is about as applicable an art as you'll find. I've seen Jujitsu instructors who didn't do live practice, though, and manufactured black belts in a matter of moths. Be careful.

There are Karate instructors who recognize the importance of grappling, but they often teach this as a separate course (in my case, Monday and Wednesdays are grappling, Tuesday and Thursday are striking, when I get around to going).

I'd advise you to go to a number of dojos and ask around. See if they do live practice, or if it's just Katas and running moves at half speed. See if they hit punching bags or the air. See if they treat people around them with respect, or if they go try to pick fights in bars. If you want to take two or more arts, ask if they teach two or more arts. Most of all, remember that you're looking for a good fit. Shop around a little. I'd try to find a grizzled old ex-military type for sensei rather than some 23-year-old "black belt" with too much hair gel.

Most places will be okay with you if you go only a few times a week; you should be able to dictate your own schedule, as it were. As far as getting in shape goes, any worthwhile dojo will condition you and have you stretch much better than you're likely to be able to on your own. If you're not working out right now, don't use that as an excuse not to go. Find a dojo, get your ass kicked for a few weeks, and you'll be in shape.

 

[Invisible Evil]

Presidentender is SPOT on with his comments!

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: neodyn55

I'm in NJ, around the coast.. my Gym, for whatever reason, doesn't offer any martial arts training, so I have to get to a dojo of sorts. Around my area, these are the most popular offerings:

Karate, Kickboxing, Aikido, Taek Kwon Do, BJJ and Muay Thai.

I'm probably going with one of Muay Thai, Kickboxing, BJJ or Karate, depending on the cost. I would prefer to learn a martial art from a different country, so it's probably not going to be plain kickboxing.

Does Karate have any grappling focus? what about Muay Thai? Alternately, does BJJ have anything more than grappling? Ideally, I'd like whatever I learn to have some real world focus - I don't really get into fights, but it'll be comforting knowing that *if* it happens, I'll at least have something more than fists. I also hear that most fights end up on the floor, so BJJ is going to be really useful in that respect. Thoughts?

Also, all your martial art trainees - how many years, and how far did you get? Do you do 2x or 3x a week? I'm planning to start my classes next month around this time. I'm just wondering if there's anything special I can do, exercise wise, to make the transition easier (like more stretching, specific strength training, etc)

Thanks for all the comments guys, I'm really learning quite a bit!

Why are you against the idea of an American martial art? There's nothing magical about Asian (or Brazilian, for that matter) martial arts. As far as that goes, Gracie BJJ is about as applicable an art as you'll find. I've seen Jujitsu instructors who didn't do live practice, though, and manufactured black belts in a matter of moths. Be careful.

There are Karate instructors who recognize the importance of grappling, but they often teach this as a separate course (in my case, Monday and Wednesdays are grappling, Tuesday and Thursday are striking, when I get around to going).

I'd advise you to go to a number of dojos and ask around. See if they do live practice, or if it's just Katas and running moves at half speed. See if they hit punching bags or the air. See if they treat people around them with respect, or if they go try to pick fights in bars. If you want to take two or more arts, ask if they teach two or more arts. Most of all, remember that you're looking for a good fit. Shop around a little. I'd try to find a grizzled old ex-military type for sensei rather than some 23-year-old "black belt" with too much hair gel.

Most places will be okay with you if you go only a few times a week; you should be able to dictate your own schedule, as it were. As far as getting in shape goes, any worthwhile dojo will condition you and have you stretch much better than you're likely to be able to on your own. If you're not working out right now, don't use that as an excuse not to go. Find a dojo, get your ass kicked for a few weeks, and you'll be in shape.

I've never heard of a BJJ place giving out black belts in months. People would shut it down so fast (aka Gracies would probably get involved). It takes you 1 year+ to get the next belt up (blue belt) and all the respected places I've seen usually abide by that since it takes a significant amount of time to gain the skills for it. Hm, to the OP: do some research and find a renowned BJJ place. All of the martial art places are going to be expensive. I think BJJ is worth it though, especially if you find somebody that's trained well.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

I've never heard of a BJJ place giving out black belts in months. People would shut it down so fast (aka Gracies would probably get involved).

The guy did leave town awfully fast.

Edit: Yeah, I should have used singular, as in "I've seen a dojo."
Doppeledit: Es war nicht Brazilian, sondern nur alltägliche Jiu-Jitsu.

 

[Invisible Evil]

There was a BJJ that opened here in my town, and they were issuing out certificates and belts to people in a matter of months.
They too were shut down.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: Invisible Evil
There was a BJJ that opened here in my town, and they were issuing out certificates and belts to people in a matter of months.
They too were shut down.

Pwned. I've been doing BJJ on and off for about a year and a half. I'm nowhere near a blue-belt, but I know how to move, how to submit, etc. I'm not a professional, but I'm not a schmuck on the ground either.