Inception looking very promising **POSSIBLE SPOILERS INSIDE**

[zoiks]

Saw it at the SF Metreon in IMAX. Amazing experience.

 

[Kaido]

Exactly - if you die, you're lost in Limbo. Therefore, Cobb went into Limbo (to go after Fischer), not "level 4". Or rather Level 4 is Limbo and there is no Level 5.

Fischer definitely didn't just die and go into another level of dreaming lol... he went into Limbo.

Cobb went after that, that's the only way that makes sense.

Now how he entered Limbo without killing himself in Level 3 is a stretch, but I assume it's because by dreaming so deeply, he can achieve Limbo as he had already been there before.

Reminds me of this:

http://www.lostblog.net/postimages/lost-timeline.jpg

lol

 

[purbeast0]

while this doesn't have exactly to do with Inception, i thought this would be the right thread to discuss this...

every morning when I wake up before work I set my alarm about 40 minutes early so that I can keep pressing the snooze button and fall back asleep, to kind of ween my way into getting up instead of juts abruptly getting up.

i noticed this morning (and have done this before, but paid attention this time after seeing Inception) that when the first alarm goes off and I'm dreaming, that I can kind of 'continue' my dream when i fall back asleep for the next 10 minutes. i then proceeded to do this a few more times until I got up.

i dunno after seeing Inception, this was kind of neat to actually realize how weird it is to kind of continue a dream after being awake.

 

[Kev]

I don't understand how when Fischer dies, Cobb and Ellen Page can go into limbo after him by hooking themselves up to a dream machine. The movie clearly states that you must die in the dream while heavily sedated to go into limbo. Instead they go into Cobb's subconscious... so why are Fischer and Saito there, if they had died in the dream?

Limbo = 4th dream level?

That was the only part that really confused me.

 

[mancity]

Wow

 

[gorcorps]

I don't understand how when Fischer dies, Cobb and Ellen Page can go into limbo after him by hooking themselves up to a dream machine. The movie clearly states that you must die in the dream while heavily sedated to go into limbo. Instead they go into Cobb's subconscious... so why are Fischer and Saito there, if they had died in the dream?

Limbo = 4th dream level?

That was the only part that really confused me.

Yeah I'm in the same boat. They make limbo seem like a huge deal, but then treat it as just another dream level... which isn't really that bad. At first it sounded like once you got there you were fucked in real life, but really it was pretty easy to escape from. Or the sedation just wore off. It's not really clear.

Either way, yeah the limbo thing was the weakest part of the movie IMO.

 

[Regs]

I don't understand how when Fischer dies, Cobb and Ellen Page can go into limbo after him by hooking themselves up to a dream machine. The movie clearly states that you must die in the dream while heavily sedated to go into limbo. Instead they go into Cobb's subconscious... so why are Fischer and Saito there, if they had died in the dream?

Limbo = 4th dream level?

That was the only part that really confused me.

Yah that confused me too. My guess is that they are not in limbo because Cobbs kids were not in the original limbo with his wife, but were shown in the last sequence with Fisher in it which could only imply that they were not actually in limbo. Fisher was killed by Cobbs projection of his wife and I think they were saving Fisher from cobbs subconscious.So when Cobb finally "frees" himself from his wife Fisher comes back to dream world level 3.

There was some big edits in this film to try to keep us guessing.

 

[Aikouka]

They entered Limbo by entering Fischer's subconcious. It isn't a 4th level, but since you always enter someone's mind, they entered the guy's mind who was stuck in Limbo.

 

[Hmongkeysauce]

Am I the only one who thought that Cobb died in Level 1 in the van? Everybody escaped from the river escape for Cobb, unless there was another scene showing someone pulling him out of the water.

 

[MJinZ]

Am I the only one who thought that Cobb died in Level 1 in the van? Everybody escaped from the river escape for Cobb, unless there was another scene showing someone pulling him out of the water.

It didn't matter since Cobb wanted to stay in Limbo to find Saito. His death in level 1 doesn't affect anything since it would have sent him to Limbo (but he was already there anyway).

 

[gorcorps]

They entered Limbo by entering Fischer's subconcious. It isn't a 4th level, but since you always enter someone's mind, they entered the guy's mind who was stuck in Limbo.

If they were in Fischer's mind, then why was everything familiar to Cobb as he designed it with Mag? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[KeithTalent]

I ended up buying the soundtrack for the movie the other day and it is quite nice. Surprisingly, fye actually had it for a competitive price 😛.

I loved the score in this film; it did such a great job of setting atmosphere and building tension, even though the writing and acting was doing a good job of that on its own.

KT

 

[zinfamous]

And yes, I guessed within the first ten minutes

Spoiler

that the entire movie is just a dream. No surprise there.

then it looks like you guessed wrong.

 

[zinfamous]

Awesome movie, though he probably could have made it a little shorter. I didn't care much for the actress who played Leo's wife, but ma,n the entire final dream sequence was amazing. The way he handled the timing differences between the levels of dreams was phenomenal.

You didn't care for Marion Cotillard???


That's it, you're off the Christmas list!

:twisted:

 

[KeithTalent]

then it looks like you guessed wrong.

This. I did not take that away from the film at all. I don't even really get how you could. :hmm:

KT

 

[zinfamous]

It didn't matter since Cobb wanted to stay in Limbo to find Saito. His death in level 1 doesn't affect anything since it would have sent him to Limbo (but he was already there anyway).

yep. Saito died in level 3, but Cobb could still get to him in Limbo and bring him out. They left Cobb in the van b/c it doesn't really matter. (or we simply didn't see what they did with him.

My take:

Spoiler

When the final scene between Saito and Cobb cuts, without us getting the answer, we then jump to the plane and everyone waking up, then to customs and immigration. This sequence is strung together as if it were another dream, jumping from place to place without transition. Much of the flick is edited this way, but there is an explicit acknowledgment from Cobb and the others that this is how dreams work. When they are in waking life, you don't tend to see this so much, iirc. I may have to go back, b/c I recall the same sequence when Cobb goes to meet Michael Caine. It's similar to the trickery in the Sixth Using, using classic film editing technique as a plot device--I hope that isn't what's going on here, because it's really cheap these days.
I don't see any reason to assume that the top falls, because, well, how would they show it not falling any other way? You could pan away from the spinning top, I suppose, and that might be more explicit that it would continue off camera, but it does wobble and somewhat unnaturally jump back into full spin. I think the only thing that is keeping Cobb in limbo is the fact that he sees his kids' faces. I recall this being one of his own implanted totems: preventing himself from seeing their faces. If he is in limbo (this is where I lean), then it seems that someone has explicitly trapped him here using his kids' memory as a device. The only people aware of this trap are his wife and Ellen Page chick.

 

[zinfamous]

This. I did not take that away from the film at all. I don't even really get how you could. :hmm:

KT

it reminds me of the guy in Parks & Recreation, Raishida Jone's ex-boyfriend, who claims to be able to figure out every movie in the first 2 minutes. His expectation of every movie being: "Everybody is a ghost!"

😀

 

[hans030390]

That's either a discrepency by the producers, or just artistic license because Cobb is telling the story. He told the story of when they grew old (using the old images) and then telling the story of when they got back to reality (by improperly using youthful images).

There is a brief scene where it shows them holding hands on the train tracks once you see the other scenes of them being old in limbo. The hands are quite obviously old. Did everyone miss this scene or something?

Right, that doesn't address anything to do with time Limbo though.

Once he got into Limbo, we need an explanation of why he apparently spent longer in Limbo than Cobb.

IIRC, Saito was the first to die. Therefore, he'd have spent the most time in limbo compared to everyone else. Given the compression of time in dreams, it'd be quite easy to spend many, many years in there with just a short amount of real-world time.

I don't understand how when Fischer dies, Cobb and Ellen Page can go into limbo after him by hooking themselves up to a dream machine. The movie clearly states that you must die in the dream while heavily sedated to go into limbo. Instead they go into Cobb's subconscious... so why are Fischer and Saito there, if they had died in the dream?

Limbo = 4th dream level?

That was the only part that really confused me.

I was under the impression that limbo was nothing more than undesigned dream space. If you go deep enough, eventually the architect/dreamer have nothing to give you at that level. If you die, you have nowhere to go but limbo (no matter if there are deeper designed levels). If you are at the last designed level, limbo would be the next natural level.

The reason limbo is so dangerous is because your mind ages much faster there. If you were to age until a natural death (not a sort of "kick"), I imagine your real world brain would not respond to well to that. Or, perhaps some people can't handle limbo. It could potentially be a freaky place that leaves permanent mental damage, especially if one can't control it properly.

I'm sure the heavy sedation they use also plays a more negative role in limbo as well.

 

[Kev]

After reading this thread I'm starting to doubt that subsequent viewings will help answer my questions. This is one commentary track that I actually wouldn't mind listening to on dvd.

 

[purbeast0]

with what Hans said, Saito also died in the 3rd level of dreams, which as stated, is going to make the Limbo time much longer than if someone died in level 1 of the dreams.

and maybe Leo died in level 1 of the dreams in the car, drowning, which would make sense why he has hardly aged compared to saito who died in level 3.

i also do not think that the 'limbo' that leo and the little girl go into is the same limbo that saito is in. because leo wasn't searching for saito in his limbo, but rather he 'appeared out of nowhere' in the ocean.

aaah man so much crap to think about, makes me want to go see it again.

 

[destrekor]

After reading this thread I'm starting to doubt that subsequent viewings will help answer my questions. This is one commentary track that I actually wouldn't mind listening to on dvd.

Seriously, I think this might end up being the first movie that I actually watch with a commentary track playing.

 

[KeithTalent]

Seriously, I think this might end up being the first movie that I actually watch with a commentary track playing.

Primer's a good one to watch with the commentary; highly recommended!

I have not listened to a Nolan commentary yet. I own the Memento Blu, so I should check it out one of these days. :hmm:

KT

 

[Kev]

with what Hans said, Saito also died in the 3rd level of dreams, which as stated, is going to make the Limbo time much longer than if someone died in level 1 of the dreams.

and maybe Leo died in level 1 of the dreams in the car, drowning, which would make sense why he has hardly aged compared to saito who died in level 3.

i also do not think that the 'limbo' that leo and the little girl go into is the same limbo that saito is in. because leo wasn't searching for saito in his limbo, but rather he 'appeared out of nowhere' in the ocean.

aaah man so much crap to think about, makes me want to go see it again.

Well Saito was shot in the 1st dream level, so I would say he died in the 1st dream level, and it just caused him to die in levels 2 and 3 because of that. Cobb doesn't get a kick to take him out of the 4th level, so when he dies in the 1st level by drowning, he is put into limbo as well... the same limbo as Saito. So I think that all makes sense.

That still doesn't explain how they can go into the 4th dream level and find Fischer.

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

then it looks like you guessed wrong.

Unless your intent was simply to be glib, I have no idea how you can say this with certainty.

Spoiler

The ending shot of the film, with the cut to black the instant the top begins to wobble -- but not fall -- implies a lot more ambiguity than you seem to think it does.

.

There's a lengthy, but incredibly spoiler-filled writeup of Inception at Salon.com that's certain to help fuel the fire of these discussions for a long time to come.

I enjoyed Inception a lot, but I'm not sure if I could bring myself to sit in a theatre for another two hours and change to look for clues. It is a day-one buy as soon as a DVD or Blu-ray with a commentary track shows up in stores, though.

 

[Aikouka]

If they were in Fischer's mind, then why was everything familiar to Cobb as he designed it with Mag? That doesn't make any sense.

Because Cobb designed the level to find Mal. The only odd thing is that level 3 was done in Fischer's mind, so it'd be odd going in twice. The idea that limbo is level 4 seems a little too off.