In your opinion does the Left have a voice in government in the US?

[Infohawk]

Example: headscarf ban in Europe. What is that and why did the French Socialists support it for the most part?

What is there to not understand? The soviet union was extreme left on the political spectrum. They suppressed Islam everywhere they went and bolstered women's rights. European socialists are not as extreme but you shouldn't be surprised they are for woman's rights and not about to tolerate religious shenanigans.

 

[IronWing]

The left have a small handful of voices, Kucinich being the most prominent. However, we're pretty much locked out of decision making. The single payer system was dismissed w/o any analysis as it went against the interests of the insurance companies who bought the Dems/Reps. Even a public option was rejected prior to any voting as it was too reasonable.

 

[CPA]

My point is that pretty much everywhere else in the world what you label as the far left are just considered the plain old left and they HAVE a seat at the table and ARE one of the grown folks.

That should tell you the fundamental difference between the US and the rest of the world. We are not the rest of the world. Yes, many Americans wish we were just like Britain with it's millions of cameras, France and it's employee comes first union attitude or Greece's cradle to grave nannyism, but most Americans do not want that crap. They still want freedom, liberty and the government to get out of the way. The rest of the world is far left, whether you want to believe it or not.

 

[Infohawk]

The left have a small handful of voices, Kucinich being the most prominent. However, we're pretty much locked out of decision making. The single payer system was dismissed w/o any analysis as it went against the interests of the insurance companies who bought the Dems/Reps. Even a public option was rejected prior to any voting as it was too reasonable.

Or maybe, just maybe, elected politicians want to stay in power and do what their electorate wants... which in most parts of America is to not have universal health care. But again, maybe like OP, you're just complaining that people don't agree with you?

 

[CanOWorms]

What is there to not understand? The soviet union was extreme left on the political spectrum. They suppressed Islam everywhere they went and bolstered women's rights. European socialists are not as extreme but you shouldn't be surprised they are for woman's rights and not about to tolerate religious shenanigans.

What is there not to understand? They are right on some issues, left on some issues. I don't view the Soviet Union as extreme left myself because I don't personally emphasize whatever you're emphasizing.

Also, banning the headscarf seems against women's rights. It is prohibiting women from wearing something.

 

[sandorski]

That's the nice thing about America... We can do whatever we want. We govern ourselves however we want. We don't have to do what the rest of the world does. And that means we don't have to allow the lunatic fringe (right or left) to have any more influence than their numbers allow. If the far left wants a place at the table they need to form their own party and run their own candidates. Until then they are confined to the Democrat party where the nuttiest among them can keep losing in the primary elections and get arrested at every G8 summit until the end of time.

You sure about that? Doesn't really appear that way from outside. With so many saying how the 2 Parties are the same and all.

 

[Infohawk]

What is there not to understand? They are right on some issues, left on some issues. I don't view the Soviet Union as extreme left myself because I don't personally emphasize whatever you're emphasizing.

Also, banning the headscarf seems against women's rights. It is prohibiting women from wearing something.

Who is "they?" French or French socialists? Basically it sounds like you have your own definition of right and left which nobody else shares. Socialists are pretty by definition on the left. French socialists are typical socialists and typical left wingers. And as much as you'd love to deny it you should know that Northern Europe is the home of feminism and suffrage for women.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And as much as you'd love to deny it you should know that Northern Europe is the home of feminism and suffrage for women.

So what group is telling women how they cannot choose to dress to express their religious freedom? Hey how about letting the women choose? Na, can't have that. Women must be free to do what they are told.

 

[Infohawk]

So what group is telling women how they cannot choose to dress to express their religious freedom? Hey how about letting the women choose? Na, can't have that. Women must be free to do what they are told.

I'm not sure you understand what I'm discussing with COW here... I'm not arguing the merits of the ban, I'm just saying being pro-pan is completely in line with socialism. Socialists generally don't care too much about religious freedom.

 

[CanOWorms]

Who is "they?" French or French socialists?[ Basically it sounds like you have your own definition of right and left which nobody else shares. Socialists are pretty by definition on the left. French socialists are typical socialists and typical left wingers.

Just because you call yourself a socialist or left-wing doesn't mean that is what you are. Segolene Royal wanted to send minorities and immigrants to army camps. That is a typical European left winger, but not a typical left winger elsewhere.

And as much as you'd love to deny it you should know that Northern Europe is the home of feminism and suffrage for women.

So? I'm talking about the present.

Neighboring Switzerland seems to have taken a long time to accept those ideas with their complete women's suffrage not occurring until 1990. That's after Yemen! Cool fact!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm not sure you understand what I'm discussing with COW here... I'm not arguing the merits of the ban, I'm just saying being pro-pan is completely in line with socialism. Socialists generally don't care too much about religious freedom.

Gotcha.

Go to it

 

[CanOWorms]

I'm not sure you understand what I'm discussing with COW here... I'm not arguing the merits of the ban, I'm just saying being pro-pan is completely in line with socialism. Socialists generally don't care too much about religious freedom.

I'm not arguing about Socialism. I'm arguing that it's a far-right action.

 

[Craig234]

Of course they do. The US has some also.

Not that get anywhere near power - few even get near any tv show or major newspaper.

About our closest are very moderate 'liberals' like Maddow and Krugman.

And they're not really anywhere near government power.

The closest there might be Elizabeth Warren, who *might* get to run the new consumer agency, but who Obama has refused to appoint so far.

And against she's far from left.

 

[CanOWorms]

Not that get anywhere near power - few even get near any tv show or major newspaper.

About our closest are very moderate 'liberals' like Maddow and Krugman.

And they're not really anywhere near government power.

The closest there might be Elizabeth Warren, who *might* get to run the new consumer agency, but who Obama has refused to appoint so far.

And against she's far from left.

In that case, then Ralph Nader was a very influential liberal. He changed the results of an election. In addition, there are many influential left-wing organizations that have a huge influence on the government - Sierra Club, ACLU, etc.

The system of government is so different in the US compared to monarchy-influenced systems.

 

[Infohawk]

Just because you call yourself a socialist or left-wing doesn't mean that is what you are. Segolene Royal wanted to send minorities and immigrants to army camps. That is a typical European left winger, but not a typical left winger elsewhere.

So? I'm talking about the present.

Neighboring Switzerland seems to have taken a long time to accept those ideas with their complete women's suffrage not occurring until 1990. That's after Yemen! Cool fact!

I don't consider France or Switzerland to be in Northern Europe. Why did I bring up Northern Europe being the origin of women's rights? Only because it's a indisputable positive thing about Europe that you will likely never admit to...

Your statement about Royal is nonsense. She is the polar opposite of the far-right party in France who actually might want to expel minorities. Perhaps you're confusing illegal immigrants with minorities though...

 

[Herr Kutz]

What the "Left" in America needs to figure out is that a majority of people here do not want the government running ever facet of their lives. This is all despite the Left dominating the mainstream news outlets in the US.

The difference with Europe is that the majority seems to want government intrusion in their lives.

Concepts like Universal Health care and the like aren't considered far left in most countries.

And here is your mistake. Typical European (and Canadians reek of this too) thinking is that if we do something one way and they don't, they are backwards, uncivilized,...

 

[CanOWorms]

I don't consider France or Switzerland to be in Northern Europe. Why did I bring up Northern Europe being the origin of women's rights? Only because it's a indisputable positive thing about Europe that you will likely never admit to...

Sorry, but I think that it's disputable whether Northern Europe is the origin of the women's rights movement. For example, Wikipedia says that France is the origin of the modern movement. Anyways, it's not really relevant.

Your statement about Royal is nonsense. She is the polar opposite of the far-right party in France who actually might want to expel minorities. Perhaps you're confusing illegal immigrants with minorities though...

No, she's the polar opposite on many issues, but not all.

 

[mountcarlmore]

Maybe the left has a voice because the rest of the world actually realizes what takes the void of government? You don't get freedom, you get unlubed anal from Monsanto.

 

[Craig234]

What the "Left" in America needs to figure out is that a majority of people here do not want the government running ever facet of their lives.

No, what people like you need to understand is that you have been fed a lie about the left. (95% about liberals here...)

 

[Zebo]

Hard to say. In many ways we were more left economically in the "good ole days" 1945-1970. Certainly the highly progressive tax structure was left. Unions were admired and lots union workers made the workforce. Tariffs were high. Banking laws were restrictive. etc.

Socially we were right wing. With regard to race relations we were right wing. With regard to how we fought wars we were right wing. Kill em all. All "japs" and "Krauts" were devils not to be understood but killed.

I'd say it's a mixed bag. In many ways left is the norm and in many ways neo-liberalism is the norm.

 

[mountcarlmore]

Hard to say. In many ways we were more left economically in the "good ole days" 1945-1970. Certainly the highly progressive tax structure was left. Unions were admired and lots union workers made the workforce. Tariffs were high. Banking laws were restrictive. etc.

Socially we were right wing. With regard to race relations we were right wing. With regard to how we fought wars we were right wing. Kill em all. All "japs" and "Krauts" were devils not to be understood but killed.

I'd say it's a mixed bag. In many ways left is the norm and in many ways neo-liberalism is the norm.

Neo-liberalism is an odd mold, because conservatives seem to favor it (pseudo free market) but yet it tears down national borders that the right loves so much. The problem is that there is no free market for monopolies. Economies of scale break down past a certain point, and a multinational corporation is no more efficient than a government bureaucracy with the nice caveat that its not responsible to anybody but its shareholders in any significant capacity. I'm pro decentralization in general so I'm anti state as much as I am anti big business, but my problem with most libertarians is that they want a laissez faire utopia that wasn't practical in the 19th century let alone now.
And socially, we are still a puritan society, even accounting the civil rights progress that was made in the past few decades. Which is contradictory because of our enormous vice industries and all the silly scandals politicians have gotten themselves into.

 

[Colt45]

These days it seems the US has a right party, and a further right party.

Which makes sense, because they are two hands of the same beast.