In-Wall Network Wiring

Optical

Senior member
Aug 27, 2001
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Hi all,

I have been requested to do an in-wall network wiring for an office and not sure where to start and what to look out for.

Is this tough to do?

How do you pull cables not able to see what's behind the wall?

Use STP instead of UTP? What other power related issues are you suppose to look for?

How are you suppose to route this through the ceiling and what accessories are needed?

How do you where to drill for the keystone jacks?

Any good resources out there to learn this?

I know there's professional out there but really want to try this out myself.









 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
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You should not accept this job.

There are legal liabillities involved, and many rules and codes that YOU are responsible for knowing and following.

Decline and run like Hell. Find a good Bonded and Insured data cabling outfit to do the job right and certify the plant. Anything less and you are doing a great disservice to the customer at any price.

Just my .02

Scott




 
Jul 14, 2004
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Is this a new office or an existing office? In an existing office you can utilize the existing telephone cables/conduits to the telephone backboard, where you can add your LAN equipment. In a new installation you run conduits from where the desks will be to the telephone backboard and pull in cables for both voice and data. Are you providing WAN access? Servers? Firewall? Or just the cabling?
 

Optical

Senior member
Aug 27, 2001
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paladin,

They are moving to a new location but it's really not a "new" office. It should already has existing telephone conduits from the previous tenant. What I'm not sure is if they have telephone wiring to all locations that need to be wired. Using the existing telephone calbes/conduits would be the least intrusive solution. ARe you saying using an used pair for the data comm?


I'm proving networking services to them.




 
Jul 14, 2004
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Depending on what wire is there, you can re-use it or use it to pull new wire thru the conduit. Corporate Standard is now three Cat-5E to each workstation, one for data, one for voice, and one spare. If you plan in 100baseT to the workstations you'll want Cat-5 or better. 10baseT will run over any two pairs of most any existing telecomm cables. Double or Triple jack wall plates, depending on cabling. Wall, swinggate, or rack mounted patch panel in the terminal closet, if new cables or existing will swing. Or you can work with existing 66-blocks if 10baseT. There's lots of varibles.
 

Optical

Senior member
Aug 27, 2001
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This will be 100baseT install. Is that mean, the existing phone wire won't work and need to pull new ones?
 
Jul 14, 2004
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It might not work. Assuming that existing wire is cat-3 (a lazy one turn in about 3-4 inches) and not cat-5 (a tight 3-4 twists per inch) it becomes a pull string. (One of these days I have to see how far I can push 100baseT over cat-3.)
 

Optical

Senior member
Aug 27, 2001
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ScottMac,

Care to explain why this is so difficult? I don't see how this could be so difficult if you have the right tools (cables, testers, etc). What is it that I should running away from?
 

netsysadmin

Senior member
Feb 17, 2002
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Its not that it is hard to install the wiring. He is reffering to the liability if you do not follow the local city/county building codes. You could set yourself up for a lawsuit if something ever happened (Building catching on fire). I would not do the job unless you are experienced in wiring data and know all the city/county codes.

Good Luck,

John
 

martind1

Senior member
Jul 3, 2003
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wow, if you don't know how to run cables through walls, maybe you better back out now. IT can get complex. Running cable itself is not a problem. its, as an electrician will tell you, a tricky proposition when you are runnign through studs and other things. its always easy to do if the walls are open. So I will answer other of yoru questions.

yes its tough.

you find out where you need ot go and you use a snake, and cut the wall, and redry wall when done (watch a show like monster house, or anything elses, you will see that sometimes the only way to run cabel/electricity is to tear apart the wall to get around obstacles, sometimes you HAVE to see behind the walls)

stp vs utp. use either when you need to. running along power lines and flourecent lights might make that line worthless. stay away from them.

you drill for the jacks, where ever you want to put them.

learn by doing.

So bottom line, I suggest you do not take this job as you do not seem prepared at all to do this. Especially since if you are doign it for a company you might need to do some (or all) of it up to your local codes.
 

Optical

Senior member
Aug 27, 2001
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Those were the exact information I was looking for. I had no clue I had meet building codes. I guess that's what happens when a network guy cross line to cable installations - clue less.

Now, how would I select a subcontractor for jobs like this? Certification requirements?
 

martind1

Senior member
Jul 3, 2003
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I am not saying that there are codes, but there might be. I think most electricians can do this sort of thing. not sure on certs or anything though.
 

netsysadmin

Senior member
Feb 17, 2002
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Dude call you local county office or call a person that does network wiring. There are codes in every state for sure!!

John
 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
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California has some of the strictest codes, and there are communities that are tougher still. Generally speaking, the stronger the Union town, the tougher the code / laws.

Aside from the Building cabling code, there are a number of rules and guidelines from running cable. For example, there's a maximum putting force you can apply to the cable, there's a minium bend radius that must be observed, there are termination rules for how much of the pair can be exposed outside the jacket, how much it can be untwisted ... there are rules for how much punch force to apply to jack the wires into the panel, there are specific color-pair orders that must be observed.

Since it's a commercial install, you should be able to certify that the installation meets the Category spec you're installing. The higher the spec (Cat 6 versus Cat5e versus Cat5), the tougher the guidelines and rules. You need to hit specific specs for attenuation, crosstalk, ACR, FeXT, NeXT, Power Sum .... (lots more).

Next, you should totally forget that shielded twisted pair (screened twised pair, etc) exist. It's RARELY ever needed (virtually never, unless you wanna believe some marketing guys), and if you don't terminate the shield/screen properly, and / or fail to use component from end-to-end that are made to handle shielded / screened cable, then you have installed what amount to really fancy PHONE cabling (p!ss-poor data cabling).

I'm saying run away from this because you do not know what you are doing. You'd be doing the customer a major disservice and exposing yourself to some potentially serious liabilities. You understand that if you were to nick a water pipe (or gas pipe, or power line) while installing ... YOU are responsible for the repair and replacement of all damaged stuff. Building insurance usually does not cover damage caused by out-of-code, out-of-spec installations. That means that if they could tie a building fire to your install, you are on the hook for full damage.

People that do this professionally know what permits must be files, what inspections (if any) are necessary, and are (which no exceptions that I know of) Bonded and Insured to cover collateral damage from the install. They have the equipment to properly certify and warranty the installation. That's why they cost more.

If you wanna play "wire geek" at home at your own risk, I have nothing against that ... you gotta learn somewhere. To play Wire Geek as a professional, when you don't even know basic cabling practivces, is seriously flirting with disaster. You don't even know what you don't know (which is alot).

I'm not trying to run you down on this, I'm just trying to give you the reasons why, IMHO, you'd be making a serious mistake.

To put it in perspective: Would you want a mechanic to work on your (loved one's) car who has the same relative experience with cars that you have with cabling .... even at one-tenth the cost? (I'd hope not).

Go to the Anixter web site (www.anixter.com), go to the Technical Library, and read some of the white papers posted there ... get an idea of how complex cabling solution can be. It ain't rocket science, but there's WAY more to it than most people know or understand. Home stuff, who cares. Commercial stuff, messing with a company's profits ... it's a big deal, and it's YOUR tail on the line.

That's my .02 / FWIW

Good Luck

Scott



 

jjoyner

Banned
Sep 13, 2004
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Watchout for fireblocks (horizontal studs) they will block. You will need fishtape. Don't be afraid of this job. I did one with fireblocks and you will need a flex-auger drill bit. Once you get it done, hand them a bill and say payment due in two weeks. :)

The question is not STP or UTP, you will need plenum rated cabling to follow code. That way if the place burns down, the fumes don't kill people.

I have done several of these and once you get "done" you aren't really done, they will want you to come back and change this, change that. But since you work there, I believe you are prolly stuck with it.

 

jjoyner

Banned
Sep 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: netsysadmin
Dude call you local county office or call a person that does network wiring. There are codes in every state for sure!!

John

TN has no building codes for cabling other than plenum rated guidelines...that's it.
 

martind1

Senior member
Jul 3, 2003
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Originally posted by: jjoyner
Once you get it done, hand them a bill and say payment due in two weeks. :)


and then they hand you a bill for the person who had to come in and do it right.


find someone to apprentice under if you really want to do this.
 

Optical

Senior member
Aug 27, 2001
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Thanks for all the great insights.

Scott, you're right - I don't know what I'm doing but that's why I started the thread. As a network guy, you have the tendency to do cross the line especially this sort of things. Who knows I may end up learning this and this for a living if it so profitable! Whether I do this or not, I still like to understand the in's and out's of this. If I were to hire a pro then at least I know what to look out for. Your liability risks are well taken.

This job by no means is a big job but for a small office. The only reason I even considered is that it could be a good learning experience without possible a lot of risk.

Love to hear more on the headsup for the ppl that have done this. Again, I would like to learn!



 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
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For the record:

PLENUM CABLE BURNS AND EMITS TOXIC FUMES (more toxic than the plastic stuff).

It just does so at a higher flash point (which is still well within the tempratures of a "normal" fire).

Many major metro areas still insist that plenum cabling be run in conduit (Chicago, NYC, LA ...)


FWIW

Scott



 
Jul 14, 2004
109
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Read the threads in this forum. Compare the number of problems with wired connections versus the number of problems with wireless connections.

If at all possible, you want wire.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
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Oct 28, 1999
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You on a per hour, or per-job bid?

A *good* wireguy will pull, plug and terminate in about 1/3rd the time of a hack. Plus they'll get parts a lot cheaper than you will.

Unless it's a temp run to keep a machine online until I get somebody in, I always call in the pro's. For $60 an hour they can get things done so much faster and infinitely more professionaly than I can do myself...and I'm not really that bad at running cables myself. It's just that it's what they do every day.

In the long run it just isn't worth it. If you are doing it for the money, you'll probably come out ahead by contracting them to do it. Plus it'll be better than you can do. If you are doing it for experience you are doing them a disservice like Scott said by doing a hack job.

Either way they lose if you do it.

Swallow your pride and let the pros handle it.

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here.