in this day and age....is it possible to get a job w/out a degree?

[pulse8]

Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal

Originally posted by: Ornery
You work 80 hours per week for $40K? Screw that! If I work 10 hours OT per week I feel like hell. In no mood to lift a finger around the house. Any more than that and I'd turn into Jack Torrance!

Forty hours of OT per PAY PERIOD..not per week Pay period = two weeks.

You're working 60 hours a week for $40k?? You're still getting ripped off!

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: Lenine

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: tm37
No degree here and I make about 56K w/ overtime.

I really took a pay cut for this job. I will be let go in june if I don't find work but I am currently fielding offers so I think I will be OK.

Now IF i had a degree the offers might be better but I am doing OK. If you find the right niche you can become quite sucessfull but it is a lot harder.

560k? Shens.

TYPO

I will insist that my chilren go to college just because I have faught the battles.

In my current job search last night I recieved tyhe call I get everytime I have sent out my resume.

"Where did you go to college because it is not listed on your resume?"

Well if I had attended college I assure I would put it down and really I am a little frightened that someone would consider hiring someone that was so stupid not to put college on their resume.

If you are young GO TO SCHOOL. It opens many a door that to some of us will never be opened without that poece of paper.

I actually have interviewed for a few jobs and while my expernce was right the education was not behind it. If two equal candidates go for the same job the one with the degree will win about 80% of the time.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

I wonder what all these "start your own company" guys are supposed to live on till they get clients? How they're supposed to have health insurance? What if they have a wife/kids that need them to make money every week?

Well, beyond that practical difficulty of starting one's business, most of us here, degree or not, don't have a business. Many of us would like one. But, they're hard. You can't just "start a business". Me, for instance, wtf can I do for a business? I don't know sh*t. The only thing that separates me from somebody cleaning toilets is that I fell into a cushy field doing cushy work.

And, company or not, it seems that those here pushing the degree=farce idea are saying that without one you're screwed, unless you start a company. So, it would then seem that if you don't have a degree you are screwed, unless you can start a company, which most of us cannot.

Then there is the obvious fact that just because you're the one who owns the company, it's not the case that a degree won't help you. If I want to start a landscaping company, I highly doubt that anybody cares about my degree. But, if I want to start a company doing...uh, say law, then yes, I need one. Even trying to create business contacts, it may come up "where did you go to school?", answered with "I didn't. Degrees are a stupid farce. I learned it on the street!". Meanwhile the guy with the money you want has his college ring on and is looking forward to his next meeting.

Whether four years actually teaches anybody much is up for argument, but no matter how much a non-degree proponent fluffs it up, the facts are clear: Degrees more than pay for themselves in one's life time.

Well said.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Anybody that thinks that degrees are a farce because it doesn't teach you anything should take a look at what medical students, law students, engineers, chemists, etc. study.
I bet the people calling degrees farces would have a ball figuring it out.

 

[Cdubneeddeal]

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: Cdubneeddeal

Originally posted by: Ornery
You work 80 hours per week for $40K? Screw that! If I work 10 hours OT per week I feel like hell. In no mood to lift a finger around the house. Any more than that and I'd turn into Jack Torrance!

Forty hours of OT per PAY PERIOD..not per week Pay period = two weeks.

You're working 60 hours a week for $40k?? You're still getting ripped off!

Kind of. I just got a $2 an hour raise Also, Last June I got $2.00 and a bonus of $250. My benefits are extremely good. HR calculated it out with beneifts i'm basically getting paid $30 an hour

 

[TuxDave]

Possible? Yeah... a degree is just one possible selling point. You can develop a portfolio and work experience that'll be worth about the same. Now if it's the job that you WANT.. .that's another story.

 

[Ornery]

I can name a million professions that require a degree...

There is just as many fields where you could start your own business. I ordered the parts for my first computer, from a Palestinian fellow, who started his own business here. That was in 1992. Right now, there are kids working for him in his store. We've got a few restaurants around here run by Asian immigrants. God knows how they do it, but they do. And, if they can, why can't our own citizens, who have so many more advantages and contacts?

I've got news. With all the outsourcing going on, the trades are starting to look real good right now. My son is starting college, but I'm really going to start looking for alternative directions. Things are changing QUICKLY!



...i'm basically getting paid $30 an hour...

Your HR dept. puts a VERY inflated value on your benefits. Tell them to keep the bennies, and you'll take the $30.00 per hour!

 

[StageLeft]

With all the outsourcing going on, the trades are starting to look real good right now.

I was just reading on slashdot.org today something by the CIO of microsoft and he thought that outsourcing was not going to be a huge deal. It would grow, as does the rest of the industry, but IT demand has never been higher, except just before the bubble burst.

 

[aswedc]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Anybody that thinks that degrees are a farce because it doesn't teach you anything should take a look at what medical students, law students, engineers, chemists, etc. study.
I bet the people calling degrees farces would have a ball figuring it out.

That's what makes the whole system a farce. How is it fair that a business major can put in so little work in comparison to a chemistry major and still get a bachelor of science? That these degrees, although so different, are then judged similarly as a measuring stick for work ethic and promotion? Why does someone with a masters in a simple subject sometimes get picked over a bachelors in a difficult subject?

Just look at education for example. Half the faculty in a public school at any given time are trying to upgrade their degree for a pay raise. In fact, some of them are so focused on getting a better degree, they neglect their teaching duties in the mean time (speaking from personal experience). The degree, meant to make them better teachers, is in reality making them worse. There is definately something wrong with the way this works.

 

[Ornery]

...IT demand has never been higher...

I don't think IT is the only concern right now. There are still quite a few things that can't be outsourced, like managing a network, but there are way too many jobs that can.

 

[nRollo]

Please don't misconstrue what I said as meaning "Everything you learn in college is useful" because it's obviously not.
Even in the more specific fields like comp sci a lot of what you need to know is still learned on the job.

A bachelors DOES show that you can be trained, and stick with a project for four years +. A lot of people can't/won't.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Ornery
...IT demand has never been higher...

I don't think IT is the only concern right now. There are still quite a few things that can't be outsourced, like managing a network, but there are way too many jobs that can.

Actually network management is a HUGE expense that can be easily outsourced.

EDS, IBM, Logcalis, Accenture all come to mind. Most large companies outsource this function in my experience.

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: SampSon
Degrees are a farce.

Degrees are not a farce.

1. Many employers use level of education to sort resume's for professional positions.
2. Statistics show that people with degrees earn more on average
3. Degrees from four year colleges give you a breadth of education that prepares you to communicate your ideas more effectively, and problem solve in a variety of ways.
4. There are many jobs you can't do without a degree, period, and none too coincidentally they usually have better pay/working conditions. (Dr., Atty., CPA, Engineer, etc.)

You can learn a technical skill, or a job well enough to earn good money, but the person with the experience plus the education will always beat you for the job, or get their foot in the door at entry level. Just the way it is. Sorry to burst your "farce" balloon.

P.S. We all know the guy with his Master's or PHd that's a putz, but you can't judge a group by the traits of an individual or two?

1. Many employers also don't give a damn about their employees and have a person without a degree doing the hiring. Most companies hire morons. Most companies are started by people with out degrees.
2. Statistics can be manipulated to prove any dataset as true.
3. hahahaahahahahah ahhaah thats rich.
4. Thoes are very specific jobs, and I bet you can't name many more than thoes.

I have a degree, I know it's a farce, sorry to burst your bubble.

I have two bachelors myself, earning a degree doesn't make you any more or less qualified to say it's a farce. It may have proved to be a farce for you, but you shouldn't generalize?

I can name a million professions that require a degree, I'm starting to wonder what yours is in as you seem to be living on another planet?

Walk into a hospital friend. All of the health care professionals have degrees. Drs/nurses/radiologists/anesthesiologists/etc etc etc.

Walk into a large insurance company. 90% of the professionals there will have a degree in something.

Walk into a large accounting firm. Everyone who's not support staff of some sort will have a BS.

Walk into any law firm. Same thing.

Walk into any pharmaceutical company. Try to even get an interview at one w/o a BA.

Walk into any bio-tech firm- yep, you guessed it.

Walk into an architectural firm- know any architects w/o the sheepskin?

Walk into any kind of engineering firm- all degreed.

Any sort of research facility.

Every school you've ever seen.

Jesus, I could go on at this forever if I didn't have better things to do. The point is degreed people by and large have cushier jobs and higher income. Nobody is trying to trick anyone into "wasting" their time in college.

9/10 small businesses fail, and you need a lot of capital to start ANY kind of company. If nothing else, you have to live while you're getting started.

I have a friend who's a software developer for himself, started his own company and making a good living. The proverbial "start your own company" guy. (although he does have a comp sci degree)
He works pretty ungodly hours sometimes, because not only does he get to do his developing, he is his own secretary/accountant/collector/advertising/admin/etc..

I wonder what all these "start your own company" guys are supposed to live on till they get clients? How they're supposed to have health insurance? What if they have a wife/kids that need them to make money every week?

This thread shows how unrealistic some people's view of society has become. Maybe you can all be famous rappers or athletes! :roll:

I work at an investment bank and I've have never in my 10 years in finance have come across a non-support person w/o a degree. Heck, some of the support people I've come across have had masters. I would say at least half of the people I work with have an MBA if not a Ph.D. I would say in the finance world now, it would be next to impossible to get a job without a college degree regardless of whether its a farce or not. That's just the way it goes.