In the military and having children? Be careful.

Jan 25, 2011
16,589
8,671
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Make sure your wife/girlfriend is at home and not with you if you're deployed out of country. No way this will pass SCOTUS. Well, it shouldn't given the precedent on this but... yeah.



https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf

• Explains that USCIS no longer considers children of U.S. government employees and U.S. armed forces members residing outside the United States as “residing in the United States” for purposes of acquiring citizenship under INA 320.3


If I haven't said so lately... Fuck these people.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
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Wait, if you're military / us government employee... You yourself are already legal, right?

So how is it possible your already born child isn't a citizen? Or are they saying if your pregnant wife delivers in another country that they won't have citizenship when born?

This seems rather fishy...
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,635
3,025
136
Wait, if you're military / us government employee... You yourself are already legal, right?

So how is it possible your already born child isn't a citizen?

so, uh, are you trying to apply logic to a decision of the current administration?

i don't think this applies to already born children though.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,589
8,671
146
Wait, if you're military / us government employee... You yourself are already legal, right?

So how is it possible your already born child isn't a citizen? Or are they saying if your pregnant wife delivers in another country that they won't have citizenship when born?

This seems rather fishy...
You're about where I was when I read it. I can't get my head around how they want to apply this.

Maybe they are targeting non-citizens serving in the military? Fuck you very much for your service? That kind of thing?

Found an explainer here.

Who This Policy Update Affects
This policy may affect children residing outside the United States who were born outside the United States to:

  • Non-U.S. citizen parents and adopted by a U.S. citizen U.S. government employee or U.S. service member after their birth;
  • Non-U.S. citizen parents, such as a lawful permanent resident U.S. government employee or U.S. service member who naturalized only after the child’s birth; or
  • Two U.S. citizen government employee or U.S. service member parents who do not meet the residence or physical presence requirements to transmit citizenship to their child at birth (or one non-U.S. citizen parent and one U.S. citizen parent who does not meet these requirements).
For more information on this policy update contact uscispolicymanual@uscis.dhs.gov. For case-specific inquiries, call the USCIS Contact Center.

Who This Policy Update Does Not Affect
This policy does not affect children born outside the United States who were citizens at birth or who have already acquired citizenship, including children who:

  • Were born to two U.S. citizen parents, at least one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions before the child’s birth;
  • Were born to married parents, one of whom is a U.S. citizen and one a foreign national, if the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. or one of its outlying possessions for at least five years, at least two of which were after they turned 14 years old;
  • Were born to unmarried parents, one of whom is a U.S. citizen and one a foreign national, if the U.S. citizen parent meets the requirements listed in INA 309;
  • Are otherwise eligible to receive a Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA) or a Certificate of Citizenship documenting U.S. citizenship acquired at birth; or
  • Are residing in the United States in the legal and physical custody of their U.S. citizen parent after being lawfully admitted to the U.S. for permanent residence.
For more information, see Policy Manual, Volume 12, Part H, Children of U.S. Citizens, Chapter 3, United States Citizens at Birth (INA 301 and 309), or email uscispolicymanual@uscis.dhs.gov.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,016
32,972
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So given this admin's stance on abortion and that life begins at conception I think it's arguable that THE WOMB would constitute American territory since it's you know inside an American. Thus the fetus is automatically a citizen and should not need to apply for naturalization.
 
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mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,636
136
Wait, if you're military / us government employee... You yourself are already legal, right?

So how is it possible your already born child isn't a citizen? Or are they saying if your pregnant wife delivers in another country that they won't have citizenship when born?

This seems rather fishy...
Legal, but not necessarily a citizen. It is possible to serve in the military while not being a citizen. The Trump administration has deported many veterans.

https://www.politifact.com/wisconsi...d-hits-target-claim-trump-and-military-depor/
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,913
47,778
136
Lots of people from the Philippines join the military to get citizenship so they are non-citizens while serving. Nothing says supporting the troops like trying to deny citizenship to their children while they're deployed defending the country overseas.

What a bunch of total shitbags.
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
24,980
4,311
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People can be gov't employees or serve in the US military without being US citizens.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,589
8,671
146
People can be gov't employees or serve in the US military without being US citizens.

In a small way I could get on board with that. But that's not the case here. This applies even if they are citizens, but don't meet the threshold for how long they have been a citizen living in the US (physical presence). So new citizen, been so for a couple years. Joins the military. Their wife is still waiting on citizenship and has his baby while overseas. Their kid gets no consideration. Just seems punitive especially to military members.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,274
28,439
136
Wait, if you're military / us government employee... You yourself are already legal, right?

So how is it possible your already born child isn't a citizen? Or are they saying if your pregnant wife delivers in another country that they won't have citizenship when born?

This seems rather fishy...
Gosh I hope not. I'd hate to see something fishy come out of this admin. It might tarnish their reputation.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,913
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This is interesting in that it’s likely to affect a relatively small number of people and if someone’s command is not filled with assholes, extremely easily gotten around.

The entire purpose seems to be just as ‘virtue’ signaling to the racist, anti-immigrant base.

Man, the next president is going to have a stack of rescinded executive orders and agency rules several feet high on day one.
 

Viper1j

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2018
4,169
3,645
136
Make sure your wife/girlfriend is at home and not with you if you're deployed out of country. No way this will pass SCOTUS. Well, it shouldn't given the precedent on this but... yeah.



https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/policymanual/updates/20190828-ResidenceForCitizenship.pdf




If I haven't said so lately... Fuck these people.

Next they'll be saying that US embassies are not sovereign United States territory.
 

local

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2011
1,850
511
136
I'm all for military service being a guaranteed way to gain citizenship, get your citizenship papers with your honorable discharge. And I think I would be ok if this was linked to that in some way but not just a blanket fu to people putting their lives on the line for this country.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,913
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I'm all for military service being a guaranteed way to gain citizenship, get your citizenship papers with your honorable discharge. And I think I would be ok if this was linked to that in some way but not just a blanket fu to people putting their lives on the line for this country.

Absolutely. Every single person who serves and gets an honorable discharge should gain citizenship if they want it.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,176
36,069
136
People can be gov't employees or serve in the US military without being US citizens.

Actually you can enlist, I think it's just you can't be an officer without citizenship. Enlistment is defintely contingent on being a legal immigrant too.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,544
15,760
136
Wait, if you're military / us government employee... You yourself are already legal, right?

So how is it possible your already born child isn't a citizen? Or are they saying if your pregnant wife delivers in another country that they won't have citizenship when born?

This seems rather fishy...

I suspect this has to do with someone being deployed in a black or brown country, especially one with Moose-Lambs, meets a wife and has a baby.
I’m not an expert at these matters but I do think like a deplorable. Fortunately I don’t feel compelled to act upon those thoughts.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,544
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Someone more knowledgeable than me.

Had this been practiced at the time would John McCain not have been a Citizen? Was John’s Mother US Born?
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,544
15,760
136
This is interesting in that it’s likely to affect a relatively small number of people and if someone’s command is not filled with assholes, extremely easily gotten around.

The entire purpose seems to be just as ‘virtue’ signaling to the racist, anti-immigrant base.

Man, the next president is going to have a stack of rescinded executive orders and agency rules several feet high on day one.

Being serious I wonder if a future President could sign one order saying discard all executive actions signed by Donald Trump.
 

simpletron

Member
Oct 31, 2008
189
14
81
In a small way I could get on board with that. But that's not the case here. This applies even if they are citizens, but don't meet the threshold for how long they have been a citizen living in the US (physical presence). So new citizen, been so for a couple years. Joins the military. Their wife is still waiting on citizenship and has his baby while overseas. Their kid gets no consideration. Just seems punitive especially to military members.

The physical present requirement is minimum of 5 years in the US or its outlying possessions and at least 2 years after the age of 14. It does count time as a non-citizen.

To put forth an extreme example, a person who was born in the US to two US citizen, then lived the first 14 years in the US, then lived 2 years minus a day in the US between age of 14 and 18 and the other 2 years plus a day on an oversea military base. Lastly they join the military at 18 and were sent to oversea base where they knock up someone who had the same life and 9 months later had a baby. Their kid wouldn't be a citizen at birth under this rule even through both parents are US citizens, spent 85% of life in the US, and the remaining 15% of life on US oversea bases.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,913
47,778
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Being serious I wonder if a future President could sign one order saying discard all executive actions signed by Donald Trump.

Yes, they could, although I suspect that would be a bad idea as there are probably a whole bunch of innocuous executive orders that just concern the basic functions of government.

But yes, if the next president wanted to they could just make an executive order that said ‘this order revokes all executive orders issued between January 15th 2017 and January 15th 2021’ or whatever.

It would be bad governance but a great troll job on Trump. It would kill him to see his presidency wiped out like that.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,544
15,760
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Yes, they could, although I suspect that would be a bad idea as there are probably a whole bunch of innocuous executive orders that just concern the basic functions of government.

But yes, if the next president wanted to they could just make an executive order that said ‘this order revokes all executive orders issued between January 15th 2017 and January 15th 2021’ or whatever.

It would be bad governance but a great troll job on Trump. It would kill him to see his presidency wiped out like that.

That is exactly what my despicable mind is thinking.
All his work gone in a matter of seconds in the very first hours of a new Presidency.
If I were the new guy I would literally take the oath of office then make two steps to the left and sign the order you just described.
 

KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,659
198
106
You might wish to look into it a little deeper instead of spreading misinformation…

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