In response to "not enough good guys with guns"

[TheSiege]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/22/nra-navy-yard-shootings_n_3972208.html

I hear this statement thrown around a bunch. Work and in the media. And in a perfect world I am sure it would work, my question is this, has anyone, right or left come up with a way to stop good guys from either: A. Going bad and killing people, B. Letting kids get their guns for suicide or C. letting\giving\selling their guns to bad people. Mass shootings are really a rarity and not the problem. Shouldn't we all be focused on letting the responsible people own guns and stopping the irresponsible ones from getting it. I would assume that most guns were obtained legally at one point or another and some had to have broken the law to allow criminals to get the weapon, how do we prevent this?

 

[PrinceofWands]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/22/nra-navy-yard-shootings_n_3972208.html

I hear this statement thrown around a bunch. Work and in the media. And in a perfect world I am sure it would work, my question is this, has anyone, right or left come up with a way to stop good guys from either: A. Going bad and killing people, B. Letting kids get their guns for suicide or C. letting\giving\selling their guns to bad people. Mass shootings are really a rarity and not the problem. Shouldn't we all be focused on letting the responsible people own guns and stopping the irresponsible ones from getting it. I would assume that most guns were obtained legally at one point or another and some had to have broken the law to allow criminals to get the weapon, how do we prevent this?

You don't; any more than you prevent anything.

What you do is reduce the likelihood by creating an environment that doesn't create as many situations where those actions become likely. In other words, make life better and people won't be in such a hurry to end it.

You do this through social, cultural, and economic engineering. You focus on the root causes of crime and violence, and alleviate them as much as possible/reasonable.

 

[alkemyst]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/22/nra-navy-yard-shootings_n_3972208.html

I hear this statement thrown around a bunch. Work and in the media. And in a perfect world I am sure it would work, my question is this, has anyone, right or left come up with a way to stop good guys from either: A. Going bad and killing people, B. Letting kids get their guns for suicide or C. letting\giving\selling their guns to bad people. Mass shootings are really a rarity and not the problem. Shouldn't we all be focused on letting the responsible people own guns and stopping the irresponsible ones from getting it. I would assume that most guns were obtained legally at one point or another and some had to have broken the law to allow criminals to get the weapon, how do we prevent this?

Sadly as long as the war machine exists between nations, selling guns to gangbangers / cartel lords / etc will always be an option.

Guns are not the problem. Our government wants us to believe they are.

The sad part is they are winning. People will not react (9/11 is a prime example), people live in fear (the patriot act is a prime example), and now they are looking to take guns away from those that buy them LEGALLY.

Sooner or later on this path, we are f**ked.

 

[palehorse]

I personally thought it was f'n disgusting that the President turned the Navy Yard Memorial Service into a political anti-gun speech.

 

[alkemyst]

I personally thought it was f'n disgusting that the President turned the Navy Yard Memorial Service into a political anti-gun speech.

Probably a lot bought into it.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

More bullets flying and uncoordinated weapons fire is exactly what we need to prevent these tragedies. That and more effective background checks while leaving perfectly legal avenues to avoid them altogether. Just think, if every good guy had a gun, the rest of our world would be as safe as our highways are with every good guy behind the wheel.

 

[Angry Irishman]

I personally thought it was f'n disgusting that the President turned the Navy Yard Memorial Service into a political anti-gun speech.

Did you really expect anything different form our "objective" POTUS? Everything is political these days....everything. It's amazing that elements of the left and the right try to substantiate all of their political arguments stating it's a "logical" solution or argument. The logic used to equate a mechanical device as anything but the instrument of what a million other methods could produce the same results is not logical. The gun and everything other object or weapon that could have the same results have a person who plans and commits the crimes, not the device. "We'll ban them guns and make them all illegal; that should stop crazy people and criminals from committing murderous acts". That sounds great and provides a means to emotionally vent but in the end has zero impact to the problem.....it's not logical. Illegal narcotics are illegal and yet they continue to be sold and used by many criminals....weapons are no different. Imagine the logic, the reality of that. hmmmmm

 

[Generator]

I personally thought it was f'n disgusting that the President turned the Navy Yard Memorial Service into a political anti-gun speech.

He is the fucking president not Bob Costas chiding you during your football game. Its not fucking politics, its people getting shot in the guts from lunatics never having a chance and Obama is the person who sorts has to mention...THIS IS FUCKED UP!

I'm trying to think of the last thing you right wing troglodytes ever did anything for this country. Aside from the pittance sales tax acquired from your truck nuts purchase its probably was Nixon and his EPA. Until you get some new ideas or can manage to fake givin a fuck about anything. STFU.

Alot of people with there heads up their ass wondering what all the big fuss about. 22 children shot in the face so the president interrupts people's football game to address the nation. After being called ****** on twitter by who knows how many people at least he addressed the issue of gun violence. It wasn't just feather in his political cap.

You guys do realize there are people getting shot everyday? Like this violence isn't random lightning strikes that you can't protect yourself from. Some guy named named Ben Franklin eventually solved that lightning strike problem strapping some metal to your roof. Obama isn't going to be the president when this gun issue finally gets tackled, but he is there looking for solutions. Like any human being should be.

 

[Angry Irishman]

He is the fucking president not Bob Costas chiding you during your football game. Its not fucking politics, its people getting shot in the guts from lunatics never having a chance and Obama is the person who sorts has to mention...THIS IS FUCKED UP!

I'm trying to think of the last thing you right wing troglodytes ever did anything for this country. Aside from the pittance sales tax acquired from your truck nuts purchase its probably was Nixon and his EPA. Until you get some new ideas or can manage to fake givin a fuck about anything. STFU.

Alot of people with there heads up their ass wondering what all the big fuss about. 22 children shot in the face so the president interrupts people's football game to address the nation. After being called ****** on twitter by who knows how many people at least he addressed the issue of gun violence. It wasn't just feather in his political cap.

You guys do realize there are people getting shot everyday? Like this violence isn't random lightning strikes that you can't protect yourself from. Some guy named named Ben Franklin eventually solved that lightning strike problem strapping some metal to your roof. Obama isn't going to be the president when this gun issue finally gets tackled, but he is there looking for solutions. Like any human being should be.

Medication....take it. Tackle that first and then wake up to the reality of normal politics from both sides of the aisle; even your left leaning folks which you obviously admire so much.

Yes, I'm sure he feels remorse as most normal folks would but he is indeed politicizing this situation as he does everything...so sorry to have to inform you of that. His agenda and your emotions are not based in logic.

 

[boomerang]

I personally thought it was f'n disgusting that the President turned the Navy Yard Memorial Service into a political anti-gun speech.

"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste".

 

[palehorse]

He is the fucking president not Bob Costas chiding you during your football game. Its not fucking politics, its people getting shot in the guts from lunatics never having a chance and Obama is the person who sorts has to mention...THIS IS FUCKED UP!

I'm trying to think of the last thing you right wing troglodytes ever did anything for this country. Aside from the pittance sales tax acquired from your truck nuts purchase its probably was Nixon and his EPA. Until you get some new ideas or can manage to fake givin a fuck about anything. STFU.

Alot of people with there heads up their ass wondering what all the big fuss about. 22 children shot in the face so the president interrupts people's football game to address the nation. After being called ****** on twitter by who knows how many people at least he addressed the issue of gun violence. It wasn't just feather in his political cap.

You guys do realize there are people getting shot everyday? Like this violence isn't random lightning strikes that you can't protect yourself from. Some guy named named Ben Franklin eventually solved that lightning strike problem strapping some metal to your roof. Obama isn't going to be the president when this gun issue finally gets tackled, but he is there looking for solutions. Like any human being should be.

My problem is that he did it AT the memorial service.

I wouldn't have made the statement if he'd simply held a separate press conference to politicize the issue.

My next-door neighbor was almost killed last Monday -- the shooter walked past him after shooting a woman in the cubicle next to him, and another woman died in his arms -- and even HE is pissed that Obama politicized the memorial service!

It was tasteless and disrespectful.

 

[sportage]

Yeah, I watched Wayne LaPierre on meet the press claim if we had more guns, mass killings would not happen. So I guess he feels every man woman child should pack a gun.
Every teacher in the school. Every movie gower in the movie theater. Every customer at your local Walmart. Every diner in every restaurant. Every worker in the workplace.
Pretty weird twisted way of thinking, until one realized Wayne LaPierre only goal in life is to sale guns. Like a drug dealer on the street corner, Wayne LaPierre pushes his goods just as well.
That is what he does. That is his job. That is the only reason he exists on this earth.
So what do people expect from him? Mental stability?
The reason they feel everyone needs a gun is they have succeeded at people demonizing each other. Neighbor vs neighbor. Brother vs brother. Get everyone so paranoid that no ne is a trusted friend, even your own family members.
Next step? Arm everybody to defend against that demon next door.
Welcome to America 2013.

 

[Angry Irishman]

My problem is that he did it AT the memorial service.

I wouldn't have made the statement if he'd simply held a separate press conference to politicize the issue.

My next-door neighbor was almost killed last Monday -- the shooter walked past him after shooting a woman in the cubicle next to him, and another woman died in his arms -- and even HE is pissed that Obama politicized the memorial service!

It was tasteless and disrespectful.

His speech writers have been failing him as of late. More importantly his judgement and taste is way off the line.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Yeah, I watched Wayne LaPierre on meet the press claim if we had more guns, mass killings would not happen. So I guess he feels every man woman child should pack a gun.
Every teacher in the school. Every movie gower in the movie theater. Every customer at your local Walmart. Every diner in every restaurant. Every worker in the workplace.
Pretty weird twisted way of thinking, until one realized Wayne LaPierre only goal in life is to sale guns. Like a drug dealer on the street corner, Wayne LaPierre pushes his goods just as well.
That is what he does. That is his job. That is the only reason he exists on this earth.
So what do people expect from him? Mental stability?
The reason they feel everyone needs a gun is they have succeeded at people demonizing each other. Neighbor vs neighbor. Brother vs brother. Get everyone so paranoid that no ne is a trusted friend, even your own family members.
Next step? Arm everybody to defend against that demon next door.
Welcome to America 2013.

That sounds just as crazy as advocating to take them all away which of course isn't going to happen....legal or not. Just ask a criminal.

 

[Zargon]

Yeah, I watched Wayne LaPierre on meet the press claim if we had more guns, mass killings would not happen. So I guess he feels every man woman child should pack a gun.
Every teacher in the school. Every movie gower in the movie theater. Every customer at your local Walmart. Every diner in every restaurant. Every worker in the workplace.
Pretty weird twisted way of thinking, until one realized Wayne LaPierre only goal in life is to sale guns. Like a drug dealer on the street corner, Wayne LaPierre pushes his goods just as well.
That is what he does. That is his job. That is the only reason he exists on this earth.
So what do people expect from him? Mental stability?
The reason they feel everyone needs a gun is they have succeeded at people demonizing each other. Neighbor vs neighbor. Brother vs brother. Get everyone so paranoid that no ne is a trusted friend, even your own family members.
Next step? Arm everybody to defend against that demon next door.
Welcome to America 2013.

you could atleast mention what he said about this incident instead of what he said almost a year ago in response to newtown, which he backpeddaled on

 

[QuantumPion]

I'm curious - if guns are so evil and the thought of a law-abiding concealed carrier brings up the notion of bullets flying and causing more casualties than if the shooter just had free reign, why do we allow police to carry guns? There are far more instances of police injuring and killing bystanders than concealed carry holders. Remember this incident for example.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I'm curious - if guns are so evil and the thought of a law-abiding concealed carrier brings up the notion of bullets flying and causing more casualties than if the shooter just had free reign, why do we allow police to carry guns? There are far more instances of police injuring and killing bystanders than concealed carry holders. Remember this incident for example.

I'm going to guess there are far more police than concealed carry holders and they're in far more instances where they're forced to use a gun.

 

[JulesMaximus]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/22/nra-navy-yard-shootings_n_3972208.html

I hear this statement thrown around a bunch. Work and in the media. And in a perfect world I am sure it would work, my question is this, has anyone, right or left come up with a way to stop good guys from either: A. Going bad and killing people, B. Letting kids get their guns for suicide or C. letting\giving\selling their guns to bad people. Mass shootings are really a rarity and not the problem. Shouldn't we all be focused on letting the responsible people own guns

We already do this.

and stopping the irresponsible ones from getting it. I would assume that most guns were obtained legally at one point or another and some had to have broken the law to allow criminals to get the weapon, how do we prevent this?

We fail miserably at this though... and the NRA doesn't want to hear of laws aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals which is one of the reasons this gun owner does not support the NRA in any way whatsoever.

 

[Nebor]

Yeah, I watched Wayne LaPierre on meet the press claim if we had more guns, mass killings would not happen. So I guess he feels every man woman child should pack a gun.
Every teacher in the school. Every movie gower in the movie theater. Every customer at your local Walmart. Every diner in every restaurant. Every worker in the workplace.
Pretty weird twisted way of thinking, until one realized Wayne LaPierre only goal in life is to sale guns. Like a drug dealer on the street corner, Wayne LaPierre pushes his goods just as well.
That is what he does. That is his job. That is the only reason he exists on this earth.
So what do people expect from him? Mental stability?
The reason they feel everyone needs a gun is they have succeeded at people demonizing each other. Neighbor vs neighbor. Brother vs brother. Get everyone so paranoid that no ne is a trusted friend, even your own family members.
Next step? Arm everybody to defend against that demon next door.
Welcome to America 2013.

How many mass killings have we seen at police stations, or other places were virtually everyone is armed?

I feel like it's fairly obvious that if everyone were armed there wouldn't be any mass killings. There would likely be many more accidental and individual killings though.

 

[BoberFett]

We fail miserably at this though... and the NRA doesn't want to hear of laws aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals which is one of the reasons this gun owner does not support the NRA in any way whatsoever.

Really? So the NRA was responsible for the fact that everybody else was completely incompetent when dealing with this most recent shooter?

 

[PrinceofWands]

I'm going to guess there are far more police than concealed carry holders and they're in far more instances where they're forced to use a gun.

Not even close.

There are around ~1,000,000 law enforcement officers. There are that many concealed permits just in Florida.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Really? So the NRA was responsible for the fact that everybody else was completely incompetent when dealing with this most recent shooter?

Wow... I literally have no idea how you got there from my post.

I was referring to gun show/private party transfers that aren't subject to background checks.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Not even close.

There are around ~1,000,000 law enforcement officers. There are that many concealed permits just in Florida.

And what of the second assertion (the one that really matters)

 

[HamburgerBoy]

And what of the second assertion (the one that really matters)

Pretty sure that the majority of cops never fire their guns outside of training. One example...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...time-shots-fired-nypd-report-article-1.981247
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/faq/faq_police.shtml

~100 shooting events by NYPD cops per year, ~35000 NYPD cops. In any case it is unlikely that a person will truly "need" a gun to defend themselves (cop or civilian), but that doesn't justify preventing them when they do.

 

[Incorruptible]

I personally thought it was f'n disgusting that the President turned the Navy Yard Memorial Service into a political anti-gun speech.

Are you surprised that he would do that? He doesn't give a damn about them but just wants to use their deaths to push his idiotic gun control agenda. He really is a pathetic excuse for a human being and I am still waiting for the left to call him out for what he did.