In House HD2900XT vs. 8800GTS 640

[mruffin75]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

I HAVE hd2900XT running on Vista ... it has reached FULL-LOAD ... the noise is not a big deal ...

I also remember when a certain individual used to tell us the 5800U had a "tiny hairdryer sound" and wasn't a big deal either so you'll forgive me if I take hard numbers over subjective opinion.

never mind what our noise princess says ...

Noise princess has nothing to do with it, Haiku Queen. But dB readings from the web taken from a controlled testing environments have everything to do with it because they prove you wrong.

if you can "handle" x1950p/7800GS oC'd/x850xt, the VisionTek HD2900xt is less annoying.

Again this has absolutely nothing to do with my claim that the G80 is quieter than the 2900. Are you honestly even attempting to dispute this fact?

and thank-you for AGREEING that IS it IRRESPONSIBLE to say the r600 is "quieter" [OR that the GTS is faster]

Where did I agree to that?

when you are using the AMD reference cooler and trying to compare it to VisionTek's implementation

Sorry, you have absolutely no evidence of this mysterious cooler existing that is quieter than reference. Furthermore we have people with reference coolers claiming they're as quiet as what you're saying so go figure.

Now, if you like, i CAN stick a microphone 1'foot from the case and you can hear it with only the OCZ PS running together with it in as quiet a room as i can make it

Again what will this little test prove when we have dB readings taken from proper test conditions? Specifically how will this disprove my claim that the G80 is quieter?

Honestly, do you not understand the significance of the tests I linked to? Do you not understand that unless you do exactly what they did your "tests" are quite subjective?

Ok this is getting stupid...

For a start...give up the whole "OMG it's so loud!! Look at the test results!!" problem... as it seems like the only people who think it's a problem... are the people who don't own one..

It seems like everyone who actually *owns* one of these cards has no problem with any noise that it produces...

Yes it may technically be loud...but it's not an *annoying* loud (which your argument is)..

Is it louder than a G80? I don't know...never owned one... and I'm sure no one who buys a 2900XT will have owned one either...so what's the point? I don't care how quiet or loud the G80 is..much like you shouldn't care how loud the 2900 is (because I'd say from how incensed about it, you won't be buying one)..

So drop it please...we're happy with our 2900's...you obviously think it's the devil... we get your opinion...now just drop it...

 

[sliderule]

Originally posted by: Borealis7
XBitLabs beat you to it. No offence, i trust them more

XBitLabs delivers the goods once again

if you dont fel like going through 20 or so games being tested, i can tell you that they show fairly incosistent performence which places the 2900XT (on average) right there with a GTS, but sometimes even besting a GTX.

to sum it up, the 2900's biggest problem is incosistent performce, which makes a GTS a much better buy IMO.

I have to agree. Although it's impressive to see a $400 card keeping up, if not besting $500-700 cards in some games.

I think at the end of the day you have to look at what type of games your going to be playing, if it's games the hd 2900 is good at, obviously its an amazing card for the price. Just wish it was more consistent across the board like the nvidia cards. Honestly I'd be happy with a 8800GTS/GTX or a HD 2900.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: sliderule

Originally posted by: Borealis7
XBitLabs beat you to it. No offence, i trust them more

XBitLabs delivers the goods once again

if you dont fel like going through 20 or so games being tested, i can tell you that they show fairly incosistent performence which places the 2900XT (on average) right there with a GTS, but sometimes even besting a GTX.

to sum it up, the 2900's biggest problem is incosistent performce, which makes a GTS a much better buy IMO.

I have to agree. Although it's impressive to see a $400 card keeping up, if not besting $500-700 cards in some games.

I think at the end of the day you have to look at what type of games your going to be playing, if it's games the hd 2900 is good at, obviously its an amazing card for the price. Just wish it was more consistent across the board like the nvidia cards. Honestly I'd be happy with a 8800GTS/GTX or a HD 2900.

Good thing we are already starting to see the potential of the card, unfortunately its a shame there are so many games left to optimize... If they get the drivers up there for the R650 release it will undoubtedly be a killer card, considering the R600 already equals or bests the GTX in some games

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: mruffin75
Ok this is getting stupid...

For a start...give up the whole "OMG it's so loud!! Look at the test results!!" problem... as it seems like the only people who think it's a problem... are the people who don't own one..

It seems like everyone who actually *owns* one of these cards has no problem with any noise that it produces...

Yes it may technically be loud...but it's not an *annoying* loud (which your argument is)..

Is it louder than a G80? I don't know...never owned one... and I'm sure no one who buys a 2900XT will have owned one either...so what's the point? I don't care how quiet or loud the G80 is..much like you shouldn't care how loud the 2900 is (because I'd say from how incensed about it, you won't be buying one)..

So drop it please...we're happy with our 2900's...you obviously think it's the devil... we get your opinion...now just drop it...

It might be quiet to you but it's the loudest hi-end card out there...

http://techreport.com/reviews/...d-2900xt/index.x?pg=15

 

[mruffin75]

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: mruffin75
Ok this is getting stupid...

For a start...give up the whole "OMG it's so loud!! Look at the test results!!" problem... as it seems like the only people who think it's a problem... are the people who don't own one..

It seems like everyone who actually *owns* one of these cards has no problem with any noise that it produces...

Yes it may technically be loud...but it's not an *annoying* loud (which your argument is)..

Is it louder than a G80? I don't know...never owned one... and I'm sure no one who buys a 2900XT will have owned one either...so what's the point? I don't care how quiet or loud the G80 is..much like you shouldn't care how loud the 2900 is (because I'd say from how incensed about it, you won't be buying one)..

So drop it please...we're happy with our 2900's...you obviously think it's the devil... we get your opinion...now just drop it...

It might be quiet to you but it's the loudest hi-end card out there...

http://techreport.com/reviews/...d-2900xt/index.x?pg=15

Which would be a problem if I owned all of them..... which I don't...and neither does 99% of other owners.. so what's the problem?

What I'm trying to say.. is that it may well be the loudest video card at present... but it's not an "annoying" loud... now if it was making a clicking sound or whirring.. then that would be annoying.. but it's not.. it's just air movement noise.. and that's fine for me..

Then again.. I'm not the type of person to get all upset if my video card scores 3fps less than a competing card either.. I'm not a fps whore..

Oh yeah.. and according to that article.. the 2900XT uses *less* power than the 8800 GTX's when idle... and considering most of the time my 2900XT is idle.. then that's probably more than making up for the time that I do use it..

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: apoppin
were the forums down for awhile or was my rig messed up?

I had the same problem, so the forums were probably down.

Vista does have a few issues ... mostly minor ... like with FireFox ... but i am beginning to get used to it and won't go back to Win2K for any reason [except at gunpoint]

I'm glad you are happy with it (so far).

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: ND40oz

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: ND40oz
Another thing I've noticed is the Windows Experience Index Score doesn't work right with the 2900 either. I get a nice whopping 1.0 in graphics and gaming graphics.

Retest. Now that you have working drivers, your score should be higher.

I tested it with working drivers, haven't rebooted, just tested it again, seems to be working now, 5.8 on gaming graphics though...only thing different is I stopped F@H.

Ah, I see. Even though you can see the new scores in the score window, Vista's System Properties window has an annoying bug that prevents the overall score from updating. This is the case even if you are using a nVidia GPU, BTW.

 

[newb54]

Cool that you guys are doing this, but how is this going to be an accurate comparison when you guys have completely different machines and operating systems? I didn't read the thread so maybe this was covered...

 

[Laminator]

Originally posted by: mruffin75

Which would be a problem if I owned all of them..... which I don't...and neither does 99% of other owners.. so what's the problem?

What I'm trying to say.. is that it may well be the loudest video card at present... but it's not an "annoying" loud... now if it was making a clicking sound or whirring.. then that would be annoying.. but it's not.. it's just air movement noise.. and that's fine for me..

Then again.. I'm not the type of person to get all upset if my video card scores 3fps less than a competing card either.. I'm not a fps whore..

Oh yeah.. and according to that article.. the 2900XT uses *less* power than the 8800 GTX's when idle... and considering most of the time my 2900XT is idle.. then that's probably more than making up for the time that I do use it..

The problem is that according to the review, it puts out 53db of noise under load. That can very loud to a lot of people. I have an X850XT and the noise was unbearable, even at low speeds; I had to purchase a custom cooler for it. Zalman, Arctic Cooling, and Thermalright make a lot of money each year because some people (including me) are easily annoyed by background noise. Subjective information is rarely helpful, especially coming from new owners who are sensitive and defensive about their purchase.

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: Laminator
The problem is that according to the review, it puts out 53db of noise under load. That can very loud to a lot of people. I have an X850XT and the noise was unbearable, even at low speeds; I had to purchase a custom cooler for it. Zalman, Arctic Cooling, and Thermalright make a lot of money each year because some people (including me) are easily annoyed by background noise. Subjective information is rarely helpful, especially coming from new owners who are sensitive and defensive about their purchase.

:thumbsup:

 

[nullpointerus]

When it comes to fan noise, dB is not the only factor; dB is just the only factor we can assign a number to--the objective measurement.

Loudness also has a subjective factor in the form of what type of noise is being generated. For example, air movement, which is integral to the job of a fan, is very tolerable even at high dB. Conversely, we have much lower tolerance for, say, the high-pitched whine or buzzing of a poorly made/mounted fan.

Most low/mid-range cards come with poorly made/mounted fans. This is the type of noise that many people identify as "loud" and is also the reason many people purchase custom (air) cooling solutions for these cards. To people coming from this background, the HD2900XT appears "quiet" even though it may be registering louder on the dB scale.

You cannot get an accurate picture of how the fan actually sounds to human ears by merely reading its dBs.

In the case of the HD2900XT, the subjective experiences posted here are good because they are saying that the higher dBs being put out are a relatively innocuous type of noise. Had the card come with a poorly made fan producing the same amount of noise but a different type of noise, the card would have been awful. As it stands, I have no real problem with the HD2900XT in daily use. The fan is certainly not as bad as those included in many value video cards (and for that matter, many motherboard chipsets).

If you require a silent or near-silent PC, then just looking at the dB values is fine. But just being sensitive to certain types of fan noise is not necessarily the same thing, and, similarly, doing a noise comparison between video cards without including the subjective factors is of little practical value.

EDIT: improved readability and grammar

 

[mruffin75]

Originally posted by: Laminator

Originally posted by: mruffin75

Which would be a problem if I owned all of them..... which I don't...and neither does 99% of other owners.. so what's the problem?

What I'm trying to say.. is that it may well be the loudest video card at present... but it's not an "annoying" loud... now if it was making a clicking sound or whirring.. then that would be annoying.. but it's not.. it's just air movement noise.. and that's fine for me..

Then again.. I'm not the type of person to get all upset if my video card scores 3fps less than a competing card either.. I'm not a fps whore..

Oh yeah.. and according to that article.. the 2900XT uses *less* power than the 8800 GTX's when idle... and considering most of the time my 2900XT is idle.. then that's probably more than making up for the time that I do use it..

The problem is that according to the review, it puts out 53db of noise under load. That can very loud to a lot of people. I have an X850XT and the noise was unbearable, even at low speeds; I had to purchase a custom cooler for it. Zalman, Arctic Cooling, and Thermalright make a lot of money each year because some people (including me) are easily annoyed by background noise. Subjective information is rarely helpful, especially coming from new owners who are sensitive and defensive about their purchase.

Ah no.. I'm not sensitive *or* defensive about my purchase... I'll be the first to admit that I've bought some shocking video cards in the past...(well...only one really...a 3dfx Voodoo5 5500)...

1) The 2900XT *does* create noise...
2) Is it "Noisy"?? No.. Is it annoying? No... Honestly I *do* hear it spin up...but then I can't tell or not if it's running when I'm playing a game... And yes I do understand that some people would find that annoying...you can't please everyone..

Yes the card may be 53db when it's sitting on a test bench, with no casing, and a
microphone sitting right next to it...but who really has their system like that? no one..I would nearly call that unhelpful... as it's not exactly how a system is run..

Mine is sitting under my desk, with the case firmly closed.. and yes I do hear it spin up... but then I can't tell whether or not it's under load or not...

 

[mruffin75]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
When it comes to fan noise, dB is not the only factor; dB is just the only factor we can assign a number to--the objective measurement.

Loudness also has a subjective factor in the form of what type of noise is being generated. For example, air movement, which is integral to the job of a fan, is very tolerable even at high dB. Conversely, we have much lower tolerance for, say, the high-pitched whine or buzzing of a poorly made/mounted fan.

Most low/mid-range cards come with poorly made/mounted fans. This is the type of noise that many people identify as "loud" and is also the reason many people purchase custom (air) cooling solutions for these cards. To people coming from this background, the HD2900XT appears "quiet" even though it may be registering louder on the dB scale.

You cannot get an accurate picture of how the fan actually sounds to human ears by merely reading its dBs.

In the case of the HD2900XT, the subjective experiences posted here are good because they are saying that the higher dBs being put out are a relatively innocuous type of noise. Had the card come with a poorly made fan producing the same amount of noise but a different type of noise, the card would have been awful. As it stands, I have no real problem with the HD2900XT in daily use. The fan is certainly not as bad as those included in many value video cards (and for that matter, many motherboard chipsets).

If you require a silent or near-silent PC, then just looking at the dB values is fine. But just being sensitive to certain types of fan noise is not necessarily the same thing, and, similarly, doing a noise comparison between video cards without including the subjective factors is of little practical value.

EDIT: improved readability and grammar

That is sooo true... but then again... you own a 2900XT, so your explanation must be because you are defending your purchase..............

 

[superbooga]

Good post.

To most people, the type of noise is more important than the actual amount of noise. Human ears are better at hearing higher frequency sounds, so that's why high-pitched noise is more annoying. That's why loud hard drives that "whine" are generally the most annoying, because they spin faster than fans and produce higher frequency sounds. I don't have AC in my room, so sometimes I just cool myself with a table fan. Even though the fan is louder than my computer, it emits a very even low-frequency noise, so it doesn't bother me.

If you go to Silent PC Review, you'll find that the subjective evaluation carries the most weight, and that's how it should be. The problem arises when you have biased reviewers who are sensitive and defensive about their purchase. Be honest with your evaluations, you're doing this for the good of the community and others!

 

[bfdd]

Noise level doesn't really bother me all that much either, but 50db+ is a LOT especially if the fan is going to be spinning up and down constantly. Now if you can hardset the fan to be 100% all the time(like I do with my GTX) it doesn't bother so much. Infact the loudest thing in my case is my GTX and I can hardly hear my PC at all.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: bfdd
Noise level doesn't really bother me all that much either, but 50db+ is a LOT especially if the fan is going to be spinning up and down constantly. Now if you can hardset the fan to be 100% all the time(like I do with my GTX) it doesn't bother so much. Infact the loudest thing in my case is my GTX and I can hardly hear my PC at all.

those db rating are BS ... they don't tell you ANYTHING about psycho-acoustics ... or how we "Perceive" the sound as 'irritating' or not

50 db is not a lot - INSIDE a closed case ...
otOH, it would be annoying 2 inches from you ear however

my case sits right on top of my dest next to my LCD ... HD2900xt "noise" doesn't bother me a bit ... yet my x850xt DID annoy me as did the 7800GS OC at full bore ... the x1950p isn't so silent either

unless you are a noise princess or believe the reviews really mean anything when they measure "db" or SPL ... the HD2900xt is not a "noisy" card

do you want to hear it relative to my only other running fan? - the OCZ's ... you will hear it spin up over the sound of the OCZ and nothing else ... i will place a microphone 1 foot away from the front of the case if you like

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: bfdd
Noise level doesn't really bother me all that much either, but 50db+ is a LOT especially if the fan is going to be spinning up and down constantly. Now if you can hardset the fan to be 100% all the time(like I do with my GTX) it doesn't bother so much. Infact the loudest thing in my case is my GTX and I can hardly hear my PC at all.

those db rating are BS ... they don't tell you ANYTHING about psycho-acoustics ... or how we "Perceive" the sound as 'irritating' or not

50 db is not a lot - INSIDE a closed case ...
otOH, it would be annoying 2 inches from you ear however

my case sits right on top of my dest next to my LCD ... HD2900xt "noise" doesn't bother me a bit ... yet my x850xt DID annoy me as did the 7800GS OC at full bore ... the x1950p isn't so silent either

unless you are a noise princess or believe the reviews really mean anything when they measure "db" or SPL ... the HD2900xt is not a "noisy" card

do you want to hear it relative to my only other running fan? - the OCZ's ... you will hear it spin up over the sound of the OCZ and nothing else ... i will place a microphone 1 foot away from the front of the case if you like

You should just do it at once to shut up everyone about the noise (or... confirm it )

 

[CrystalBay]

Here is my opinion, if it matters . The OS should be Identical , the cpu's can be tweaked close enough for a pretty even drag race...

 

[chunkylafanga]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
When it comes to fan noise, dB is not the only factor; dB is just the only factor we can assign a number to--the objective measurement.

Ummm, theres more factors to noise then just dB (ofcourse dB is the most quantifiable method available).
If you were to hook up a spectrum analyzer - you would be able to also see what the individual noise magnitude is over a available frequency range.

The human hear can hear between 20Hz to 20KHz (i'm sure you you all know that), but our sensitivity to particular frequencies is not all the same. Our sensitivity to higher frequencies decreases with age.

My point is, one person may find the sound of a fan annoying, whereas an older person might not. So dB tests tell us which fan is louder, but they don't come with a spectrum analysis to find out which frequencies contain higher power concentration.
So just as apoppin telling us that the fan doesn't sound loud to him doesn't help us (he may have been to 1 too many live concerts), dB tests don't tell us everything we need to know either.

Personally, I would much prefer listening to a video card outputting at 50dB with a high power concentration below 100Hz, then one which outputs 47dB (half intensity) with a high power concentration at 6Khz (whiney bitch)

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: CrystalBay
Here is my opinion, if it matters . The OS should be Identical , the cpu's can be tweaked close enough for a pretty even drag race...

Apoppin is installing XP for our first round of testing. I will go out and purchase Vista probably this weekend for a follow up of strictly Vista testing. I agree with you.

 

[chunkylafanga]

Oh yeah and my HIS 1950pro fan always runs at 100% (apparently it doesn't come with a speed controller)

but i can't hear it at all, because my Big Typhoon cooler also runs at 100% (2000 rpm) - whatever helps to keep my cpu running at a cool 24 deg C at idle

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: bfdd
Noise level doesn't really bother me all that much either, but 50db+ is a LOT especially if the fan is going to be spinning up and down constantly. Now if you can hardset the fan to be 100% all the time(like I do with my GTX) it doesn't bother so much. Infact the loudest thing in my case is my GTX and I can hardly hear my PC at all.

Noise never really bothers me either. So I guess I would be fine with a 2900 noise.
Sometimes, I even game with the sound off. :Q

Yes, when it's late at night and my kids are sleeping, and my wife is working, I can't be gaming away with headphones on oblivious to my kids if they need me. I have to listen for them.
And I don't want to turn on my speakers for fear it will wake them. So, I've learned to play without sound pretty effectively. (when I have to).

So, as you can imagine, I can hear the fans in my case

 

[bfdd]

I sleep with the TV blaring so I can't even hear the 2 pcs in the room lol when I'm trying to sleep and I have headphones so this PC sounds utterly silent next to me. I doubt it'd bother me, but to some people that could be insanely loud @ 50+ db.

 

[BFG10K]

Much better than you do ... i am quite certain ... i have set up these tests before - professionally ... i got paid to do them in high-end audio

There are plenty of people out there that get paid to do something but that doesn't mean they do it right.

how do i "normalize' ... pretty Obviously ... everything is relative ... you hear the "ambient" noise of my rig and then you ADD the HD2900xt to it and note the RELATIVE increase

How will relative increase tell me how loud the card is? How do I know if I need to set my speakers to '1', '3' or '10' to actually tell me what I'll hear in real life?

I think you are pretty lost in your awe of these reviewer's testing methods

Awe? No. What I simply understand is that they have measurable figures that aren't affected by bias or emotional attachment.

i DON'T KNOW ... i have no issue with it as i have no G80 to compare with

That's right, you don't. But you would if you opened your eyes and checked the dB readings because all of the links I provided also have G80 figures.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Much better than you do ... i am quite certain ... i have set up these tests before - professionally ... i got paid to do them in high-end audio

There are plenty of people out there that get paid to do something but that doesn't mean they do it right.

you mean like you and your reviews?

how do i "normalize' ... pretty Obviously ... everything is relative ... you hear the "ambient" noise of my rig and then you ADD the HD2900xt to it and note the RELATIVE increase

How will relative increase tell me how loud the card is? How do I know if I need to set my speakers to '1', '3' or '10' to actually tell me what I'll hear in real life?[/quote]set them to 10 so you blow your speakers out when it revs up ... do you have an idea of how "loud" my OCZ is ? there are published db reports on it also

I think you are pretty lost in your awe of these reviewer's testing methods

Awe? No. What I simply understand is that they have measurable figures that aren't affected by bias or emotional attachment.[/quote]like HardOCP? i can give you "measurable figures" also ... db or SPL meters are cheap ... but then you won't know the exact conditons of my test also unless you are there and you also need to measure the frequencies of the "noise" ... you clearly have no clue about psycho-acoustics

i DON'T KNOW ... i have no issue with it as i have no G80 to compare with

That's right, you don't. But you would if you opened your eyes and checked the dB readings because all of the links I provided also have G80 figures.[/quote]
db readings - by themselves - are as meaningless as your arguments here