• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

In honor of 24's return

XMan

XMan

Lifer
No grayness . . . the dude knows where the bomb is . . . he's the only one who knows its location . . . timer is set to go off in an hour . . . if you torture him there's a chance he'll tell you where the bomb is at. All other technological methods of finding it have been fruitless.

Edit . . . not to say you'd personally do it. But be willing to let Jack Bauer or a reasonable real world facsimile do it.
 
Originally posted by: XMan
No grayness . . . the dude knows where the bomb is . . . he's the only one who knows its location . . . timer is set to go off in an hour . . . if you torture him there's a chance he'll tell you where the bomb is at. All other technological methods of finding it have been fruitless.

Edit . . . not to say you'd personally do it. But be willing to let Jack Bauer or a reasonable real world facsimile do it.
Click to expand...

Obama says no.
 
Anyone insane enough to set off a nuclear bomb is almost surely going to be able to hold out though an hour of torture.

I'd dope the fucker up and try and trick it out of him, as that has far better odds of working.
 
you should have a "I don't care" option 🙂

I live in LA btw. All you red neck neocons should be happy if we blow up. Of course who will make shows like "24" 🙂 then!!
 
Unfortunately, it is not as clean cut as the OPs question.

When we water-boarded the 9-11 mastermind we had no idea what AQ had planned or when their next attack was going to come.

The tricky part is trying to determine when someone might really know something worth a tactic like water-boarding and when they don't have anything worth that level of interrogation.

I am guessing that one of the hardest decisions Obama will have to make as President is just how far he wants to go when we capture some really high level person with valuable information.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I am guessing that one of the hardest decisions Obama will have to make as President is just how far he wants to go when we capture some really high level person with valuable information.
Click to expand...

Hopefully he goes as far as the law allows. You see, the president of the united states isn't above the law. He's not "the decider". Of course thats part of the reason you guys got smacked so hard you are tasting what you ate 8 years ago. I'm sure it must be nice to fantasize that the other side is going to be worst or atleast the same as the steaming pile of rancid poo that is the republican party.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
When we water-boarded the 9-11 mastermind we had no idea what AQ had planned or when their next attack was going to come.
Click to expand...

In that case I would want to convince him that we honestly mean well and, hence he should help us. However, that would require our government to give up some really fucked up foreign policy.

So yeah, at that point you are left with torture, but I want no part in that.
 
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
When we water-boarded the 9-11 mastermind we had no idea what AQ had planned or when their next attack was going to come.
Click to expand...

In that case I would want to convince him that we honestly mean well and, hence he should help us. However, that would require our government to give up some really fucked up foreign policy.

So yeah, at that point you are left with torture, but I want no part in that.
Click to expand...
The guy planned the murder of 3000 Americans and you want to make sure he knows that we 'mean well'??
 
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I am guessing that one of the hardest decisions Obama will have to make as President is just how far he wants to go when we capture some really high level person with valuable information.
Click to expand...

Hopefully he goes as far as the law allows. You see, the president of the united states isn't above the law. He's not "the decider". Of course thats part of the reason you guys got smacked so hard you are tasting what you ate 8 years ago. I'm sure it must be nice to fantasize that the other side is going to be worst or atleast the same as the steaming pile of rancid poo that is the republican party.
Click to expand...
ummm Bill Clinton turned terrorists over to Egypt where they tortured and killed (and I mean intentionally not by accident) So it is safe to say that the other side has already done worse things.
 
"Oh i don?t believe in hypothetical situations Mr. Donaghy. That?s like lying to your brain?"

I have a question for the OP... Let's say after 15 minutes of ripping out fingernails, smashing toes with a sledgehammer and widening various orifices, the guy caves in and tells you "The bomb is in a suitcase at 34th and Broadway!"

Do you now stop torturing and send in the hounds? Or do you just keep throttling him to see if his story changes? (i.e. he was lying)
 
Originally posted by: XMan
No grayness . . . the dude knows where the bomb is . . . he's the only one who knows its location . . . timer is set to go off in an hour . . . if you torture him there's a chance he'll tell you where the bomb is at. All other technological methods of finding it have been fruitless.

Edit . . . not to say you'd personally do it. But be willing to let Jack Bauer or a reasonable real world facsimile do it.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing though, you never know if he knows for sure where it is. He's not going to tell you that. If you do then the question is easy. If you don't then it becomes a lot more fun.
 
You can get the same information without waterboarding or other forms of torture, so the question is a red herring.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The guy planned the murder of 3000 Americans and you want to make sure he knows that we 'mean well'??
Click to expand...
Exactly.

Our government's foreign policy actions have resulted in the murder of far more people elsewhere in this word, as well the ongoing oppression of many millions. We are always told to call it "defending our freedom" and such, but it is often done with ill intent or at least callous disregard on the part of our leaders, and little understanding by the masses. The terrorists don't "hate us for our freedom", they hate us for the tyranny our leaders have hijacked our nation to inflict across much of this world, and have been inflicting long before 9/11.

Understanding that, convincing such a terrorist that we do mean well and will put an end to such ongoing injustices is clearly the best way to convince him to reveal information.

But again that would take huge changes to our foreign policy which our government clearly has no interest in, leaving us with torture.
 
Can I play?

You capture the head of the local Jewish resistance group who you are sure is planning an attack to kill many of your Nazi soldiers. Do you torture him for the details to save lives?

Or do you let the men you are responsible for get killed?

Today, I listened to a real FBI interrogator say that the ticking bomb scenario *never* happens, that it is highly counterproductive, and that 24's scenarios never happen.

He said that he's interrogated many of the would-be suicide bombers in Iraq, and by far the reason most of them give for their willingness is the reports of torture by the US.

So, torture defenders, how many American and innocent lives are you willing to throw away in exchange for the ignorance on torture you can't be bothered to change?
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
Can I play?

You capture the head of the local Jewish resistance group who you are sure is planning an attack to kill many of your Nazi soldiers. Do you torture him for the details to save lives?

Or do you let the men you are responsible for get killed?

Today, I listened to a real FBI interrogator say that the ticking bomb scenario *never* happens, that it is highly counterproductive, and that 24's scenarios never happen.

He said that he's interrogated many of the would-be suicide bombers in Iraq, and by far the reason most of them give for their willingness is the reports of torture by the US.

So, torture defenders, how many American and innocent lives are you willing to throw away in exchange for the ignorance on torture you can't be bothered to change?
Click to expand...
Give me a fish from your secret fishing hole and I will eat for a day. Give me a candle, and I will have the location of your secret fishing hole in 2 minutes, and eat for a lifetime.
 
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Give me a fish from your secret fishing hole and I will eat for a day. Give me a candle, and I will have the location of your secret fishing hole in 2 minutes, and eat for a lifetime.
Click to expand...

What is it with right-wingers and subliminal homo-eroticism - a candle for a secret fishing hole, indeed. Maybe the secret hole is in his 'o' zone.
 
YES. Whether torture is effective to extract information is still up for debate since there is no empirical data of which I am aware that says one way or the other. I've seen reports by operatives both ways. I'll take my chances. OTOH all agree it is effective means of social control. e.g. if you know you will be tortured in captivity you are less likely to do things to become captive. Call it terror prevention or reverse terrorism.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
YES. Whether torture is effective to extract information is still up for debate since there is no empirical data of which I am aware that says one way or the other. I've seen reports by operatives both ways. OTOH all agree it is effective means of social control. e.g. if you know you will be tortured in captivity you are less likely to do things to become captive. Call it terror prevention.
Click to expand...

Was that a yes to my question?
 
Don't you think that the terrorist would be absolutely set on holding out for exactly 60 minutes? Or that he'd hold out for 20, and then confess but actually be lying and have you run to a fake location while the clock ticks down?
 
What if the perp resists torture, and after breaking down gives a "false" location. By the time (under an hour) it can be verified the damage might be done.
Need better way to interrogate - whoever makes a mind-reader will win that one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top