in a few sentences, why is there conflict in the middle east?

[0roo0roo]

120+ degree heat + religion = evil

 

[tcsenter]

i know it's religious but what's the conflict about again? does it have something to do with their gods having a different birthday or something?

Dialogue played out to those Clay Animation Conan characters:

Clay-mation Dude A: "My God is the only true God, thus only our people have rights to this Holy land."

Clay-mation Dude B: "Well that can't be, because my God is the only true God and only our people have rights to this Holy land."

Clay-mation Dude A: "HAHAHA! YOU STUPID FOOL!"

Clay-mation Dude B: "Huh? IDIOT!"

Clay-mation Dude A jumps on Clay-mation Dude B, starts pulling on his ears and biting his scalp, Clay-mation Dude B starts jabbing Clay-mation Dude A in the eyes.

The End.

 

[NetWareHead]

Jews

 

[Riprorin]

Q: In a few sentences, why is there conflict in the middle east?

A: Because Islam is intoleratant and commands its followers to convert infidels by force or kill them. "Palestinians" are useful pawns in the Arab attempt to destroy the Jews.

It's quite simple actually.

 

[simms]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Quite some time ago there was a division between religion in the region. Islam split off from Judiaism, which might have been alright, but it happened in an area with little water or land that could be farmed. Two sides were competing for the same land and resources which spells trouble. Eventually, Islam came to dominate, and few jews were left. Then in the last century a movement began for various reasons that started the idea of recreating Israel. The culmination of this occured in 1947 when the UN divided Palestine into Arab and Jewish states. The jews wound up with a little more than half the land, although they consitituted less than 10 percent of the population. In 1948, Israel became a nation. That was the start of the first war. There have been land grabs and bad feelings ever since. I can go into later events if you wish, but you asked for the nutshell version.

Finally, a useful post. Thank you.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: simms

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Quite some time ago there was a division between religion in the region. Islam split off from Judiaism, which might have been alright, but it happened in an area with little water or land that could be farmed. Two sides were competing for the same land and resources which spells trouble. Eventually, Islam came to dominate, and few jews were left. Then in the last century a movement began for various reasons that started the idea of recreating Israel. The culmination of this occured in 1947 when the UN divided Palestine into Arab and Jewish states. The jews wound up with a little more than half the land, although they consitituted less than 10 percent of the population. In 1948, Israel became a nation. That was the start of the first war. There have been land grabs and bad feelings ever since. I can go into later events if you wish, but you asked for the nutshell version.

Finally, a useful post. Thank you.

Arabs basically drifted in and out of the land since there was no economic incentive to settle there and the land was a desolate wasteland (read Mark Twain's description of the land in "Innocence Abroad" if you don't believe me). Arabs did not start moving and settling in the land until the mid - late 1800s when the land began being developed by Jews. The term "Palestinian" is actually a creation of Arafat to give some credence to his ridulous claims of Arab land rights.

Current Arab nations were carved out of the old Ottoman Emprire. Jews asked for something like 2% of the land and got less: the balance went to the Arabs.

Muslims have a long history of persecuting Christains and Jews. Just look at the number of Christians and Jews that have been driven out of Muslin countries in recent years. Contrast that to the US and and in particular Europe where there are large numers of Arabs.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Q: In a few sentences, why is there conflict in the middle east?

A: Because Islam is intoleratant and commands its followers to convert infidels by force or kill them. "Palestinians" are useful pawns in the Arab attempt to destroy the Jews.

It's quite simple actually.

Actually, Islam has historically been tolerant of other religions particularly compared to Christians. Consider how the Jews have been treated in Europe. The situation in the Mideast was cause by the creation of Israel by the UN.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: simms

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Quite some time ago there was a division between religion in the region. Islam split off from Judiaism, which might have been alright, but it happened in an area with little water or land that could be farmed. Two sides were competing for the same land and resources which spells trouble. Eventually, Islam came to dominate, and few jews were left. Then in the last century a movement began for various reasons that started the idea of recreating Israel. The culmination of this occured in 1947 when the UN divided Palestine into Arab and Jewish states. The jews wound up with a little more than half the land, although they consitituted less than 10 percent of the population. In 1948, Israel became a nation. That was the start of the first war. There have been land grabs and bad feelings ever since. I can go into later events if you wish, but you asked for the nutshell version.

Finally, a useful post. Thank you.

Arabs basically drifted in and out of the land since there was no economic incentive to settle there and the land was a desolate wasteland (read Mark Twain's description of the land in "Innocence Abroad" if you don't believe me). Arabs did not start moving and settling in the land until the mid - late 1800s when the land began being developed by Jews. The term "Palestinian" is actually a creation of Arafat to give some credence to his ridulous claims of Arab land rights.

Current Arab nations were carved out of the old Ottoman Emprire. Jews asked for something like 2% of the land and got less: the balance went to the Arabs.

Muslims have a long history of persecuting Christains and Jews. Just look at the number of Christians and Jews that have been driven out of Muslin countries in recent years. Contrast that to the US and and in particular Europe where there are large numers of Arabs.

I have heard this justification, "the Arabs weren't using the land", for the creation of Israel and pushing people off their land. You need to read the history of how European Christians have treated Jews.

 

[Riprorin]

I wasn't aware that this was a discussion of the relationship between Christians and Jews. Good topic for another thread.

Perhaps you're not aware of what's going on in the Sudan:

Religious Atmosphere: It is estimated that 70% of this country's people are Sunni Muslims. 9.9% belong to tribal religions and 19% are Christians. The Muslim population is concentrated in the north, while the Christians and animists live in the south or in the Nuba mountain range in central Sudan. A state of civil war has existed between the Muslims and non-Muslims for 14 years. Factions within the government have been making various attempts at Islamicizing the country more and more.

Extremist Groups: Popular Defense Force (PDF) - This is a government-sponsored group that is larger and better equipped than the standing army. This group it known to have its ranks filled with the most fanatical Muslim fighters. They often engage in actions against the rebel forces in the South. Since these actions are done with government support or in coordination with government forces, their actions are listed with those of the government.

It is reported that the government gives weapons to various Muslim tribes to increase their effectiveness in conducting slave and cattle raids against non-Muslim peoples in the South. These Arab militias, which often use the names Mujahadeen (holy warriors) or Murahaleen often fight alongside government forces. Their actions are also listed with those of the government.

Government: Though it has been stated by the National Islamic Front (NIF), the current military regime, that religious freedom is respected, Islam is the de facto state religion. The acronym GoS (Government of Sudan) is often used to identify government forces.

Forced conversions to Islam is a part of government policy.

Churches are often closed, destroyed, or not allowed to be built.

Christian home groups are considered to be a public disturbance and Bible teachers are considered to be the leaders of these public disturbances and are arrested.

Open preaching is prohibited and punishable by beating or a jail sentence.

Many Islamic principles are accepted as customs, such as giving the testimony of a Christian man half the weight of that given to a Muslim man. Christians are under constant pressure to convert to Islam.

Christians are commonly discriminated against in the workplace and rarely receive promotions.

Yup, so much for Islamic tolerance.

 

[Riprorin]

In case your still not convinced:

Congress To Take Action on Christian Persecution In Sudan
- by Patrick S. Poole (pspoole@HiWAAY.net)

Congressman Joe Scarborough (R-FL) is beginning to initiate action against the Government of Sudan (GOS), which has implemented a systematic campaign of terror and violence against Christians in the Southern part of the country. Scarborough will offer an amendment next week to the Foreign Policy Reformation Act which will break US diplomatic relations with Sudan and impose transaction restrictions on US companies doing business with the fundamentalist Islamic regime.
This follows after the Clinton Administration circumvented action against Sudan by using a loophole in last year's Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act to continue to protect the Arab dictators in Khartoum. The amendment to be offered by Scarborough will close that loophole and force the Department of State to take action against all, and not just some, terrorist states.

This move has been needed for decades. The Muslim Arabs that control the country have waged civil war against the Christian Blacks since 1955, supported in their campaign by those ever-so-tolerant ayatollahs in Iran. Since declaring Sudan an Islamic state in 1983, the government's attempt to impose Shi'ite law has resulted in the death of more than 1.3 million people and the displacement of more than 3 million others, mostly Christian and non-Muslims. Sudan has also allied with Iran to train fundamentalists to export terror around the world.

Another shocking example of the persecution perpetrated by GOS has been the thousands of Christians that have been captured and sold as slaves. A June 16, 1996 article in the Baltimore Sun reports that Sun journalists traveled to Khartoum were able to purchase two black Christian slaves from slave traders for five hundred dollars a piece. A plethora of human rights abuses have occurred in the Nuba Mountain region, where Islamic military forces recently crucified a 7-year old child for refusing to convert to Islam. And the White House wants to protect these butchers from sanctions?

Apart from the Clinton Administration, the terrorists in Khartoum have received aid and support from the United Nations "peacekeeping" troops that have been stationed in the region. In a policy of blatant religious discrimination, the UN has refused to deliver aid and supplies to towns in the South where the Christians are the majority. They have also halted aid flights to the South by missionary organizations for having Bibles and communion wafers as part of their cargo, while supplying UN officials in Sudan with regular shipments of wine and beer. The UN has imposed a ban on all Christian literature going into the region, and threatened that any non-UN-authorized flights attempting to deliver medical and religious supplies to areas held by the Sudanese Peoples Liberation Army (SPLA) will be promptly reported by the UN to the GOS and shot down.

The UN program designed to relieve the victims of this war, Operation Lifeline Sudan, is actually prolonging the war. As one officer from the SPLA stated: "Under the guise of feeding the starving and suffering Sudanese civilians, the UN is actually sustaining the Muslim garrison towns." Another SPLA officer complained: "There is a great imbalance. Many more UN planes -- and bigger aircraft -- fly to the Muslim garrison towns each day than the SPLA held towns. This is how they (the GOS) are maintaining 100,000 Arab troops in the South -- the UN is feeding them!" Independent observers have reported mass starvation in towns supplied by the UN, where GOS troops immediately seize the supplies for their own use to bolster their death grip on Christian populated areas.

But there is hope for those persecuted Christians in Southern Sudan. The SPLA is beginning to stem the tide of the war. Many missionary organizations are defying the UN blockade to the South and providing Christian areas with the needed quinine, antibiotics and medical attention that are saving refugees from malaria, infection and wounds received from GOS incursions and landmines. The GOS is heavily in debt, and has made no friends with their neighboring Islamic countries. And now the international community is leaning heavily towards enacting tough sanctions against Khartoum.

However, championing the human rights of Christians in Africa is hardly a marquee cause on the Hill. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-OK) has called for the formation of the Senate Religious Persecution Task Force, which will coordinate efforts with members of the House to enact tough legislation that will not be subject to waivers by the Clinton Administration. Congressman Scarborough needs assistance from the public to ensure that his amendment is passed and attached to the Foreign Policy Reform Act.

What can be done? Washington and congressional district offices should be flooded with calls and email in support of Scarborough's amendment during the week of May 19th. Those who wish to contact their Congressman can call the Capitol Hill Switchboard at: (202) 224-3121, or look up their email address at: http://www.house.gov/


Text

 

[Siddhartha]

Riprorin,
We have drifted way off topic. My point was that the main problem in the Middle East was caused the creation of Israel.
People who lived there did not like it and that is why they are blowing themselves and other people up.

 

[Nitemare]

I can name that song in 2 words, Peter...

Nitemare, Name that song

Religious zealots

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: conjur
Bethlehem to be turned back over to the Palestinians

the palys really trashed the place

 

[Riprorin]

Dr, Arab immigration to the land is a fairly recent development made possible by Jewish development. While the numbers have varied, Jews have always had a presence there. I think that Jews ended up with less than 1% of the Ottoman Empire which was carved up by the UN. The Arabs got the balance. Are you suggesting that Jews have no land rights?

The "Palestinians" could have been easily absorbed by other Arab nations but they were not. Why not? Because they are useful pawns in the Arabs attempt to destroy the Jews.

Why don't you examine how well the Palestinians did under Joradanian occupation? Look specifically at the standard of living, economic development, number of hospials and universities, etc. Contrast that with the data since Israeli ocupation.

Palestinians are fodder for the Arabs and nothing more.

It's very pathetic if you ask me.

 

[Alphazero]

Here's an Israeli point of view, based on my personal knowledge:

Basically, it's a nationalist dispute over land. The tension began as soon as the Zionist movement grew and Jews began immigrating in significant numbers at the end of the 19th century. There were many violent periods during the time the Jews were settling and developing the area, most notably in 1921, 1929 and 1936-1939.

We've been studying the state's early history at school for a couple of years. The circumstances for individual waves of violence and tension were different, but the underlying reason for the conflict is nationalism. Religion is generally not a factor.

 

[Moonbeam]

Ignorance of human nature.

Humans developed a full functioning representational, symbolic language probably sometime in the last 200,000 years. This language allowed for something that could never have occurred before, the development of thought and the impression of time, the ability to symbolically self represent oneself as an ego separate from experience. Humans developed the capacity to step out of the stream of being and analyze their situation, self talk to themselves about what is happening. Coupled to this, via the pain pleasure response, the fight flight mechanisms, our capacity to suffer organic terror and pain, language included the capacity to represent reality in dually as good and evil. The capacity to represent experience, individuals and things as good and evil allowed for the development of words the intent of which is to put down. Thus came the capacity to control by words, to put into words the experience of terror and pain. The behavior of man became a tool of manipulation by language. The ability to control with words, to terrorize with words, to inflict pain with words, to symbolically connect a feeling to a thing, the tree of knowledge of good and evil, took man out of the garden and straight to hell. Why?

Every human being is born with the capacity to experience pain and terror and every human being does. What we have all forgotten is just how great that capacity is. You can't sit in your chair and feel how terrified or how hurt you can be. You are armored to protect yourself from that experience. You have learned to dampen down that experience. You are defended, armed to the teeth to prevent that from happening. You have no conscious memory of how deeply you can feel how deeply you were hurt. Every human being has been through a concentration camp from hell. Every human being has been made to feel like he is the worst person in the world because every human being, born completely without sophisticated mental defense, feels pain and terror to the maximum human extent and can't any longer remember. Every human being has been told that what they were before that experience, before the sh!t hit the fan, was that being perfect and undefended was the greatest evil in the world. We were all put down, controlled by words, made to feel as bad as humans can feel.

But the human child cannot survive in a maximized state of pain. We are organically equipped with the capacity to forget, to come down. All that's left is the residual terror of returning to that state, being what we were before it occurred, alive and mentally healthy. We learn to conform, to defend by playing the word game. We become exactly what we fear. We spend the rest of our lives making sure that evil is the other guy. And the other guy is doing the same thing to us.

This is why man goes to war. He would rather kill or die than remember.

Bad as that is, though, it's not the worst. We are like moths to a flame. We left our lives, our true selves, our undivided being back there in infancy. We don't know what is wrong but we know something is. We hunger; we cave for our original selves. This impels us for the sake of our lost life to return to the scene of the crime. We want to experience terror and fear, to do battle with put down. We long to be whole again. But we do it in such a way as to get close but without remembering. We have to tempt the fates. We walk up to deaths door for our vicarious life. We seek out situations that art like the ones in which our spirit died. Man is headed for extinction so he can remember. We recreate the means by which we died. We have to. We are human. It's how we are.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Q: In a few sentences, why is there conflict in the middle east?

A: Because Islam is intoleratant and commands its followers to convert infidels by force or kill them. "Palestinians" are useful pawns in the Arab attempt to destroy the Jews.

It's quite simple actually.

Actually, Islam has historically been tolerant of other religions particularly compared to Christians. Consider how the Jews have been treated in Europe. The situation in the Mideast was cause by the creation of Israel by the UN.

Dr. Smooth, perhaps you aren't aware of the Christian support of Israel:

Christian Organizations that Support Israel

 

One word:

ISRAEL

 

[jjones]

Because every day is a bad hair day.

 

[Bulk Beef]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Ignorance of human nature.

blah blah blah etc etc etc

That was more than a few sentences Moonbeam. You get an "F".

 

[Electric Amish]

Human's inability to accept one another and their beliefs.