Importance of education overated?

[IamDavid]

I myself never bought into the "be cool, stay in school" crap growing up. I ditched school as often as possable and dropped completely out by my sophomore year in high school. I could never understand the point of attendance = education so I chose not to play. Instead I worked my ass off and became the person I am today. I'm now the sole provider for my family of six and take care of my mother as well. We live very comfortably and my family wants for nothing, in fact I believe they are becoming to spoiled and pampered. So to my question,

My kids are very bright but don't like school. My eldest can't stand it. Me being a drop out agrees with her reasons but I can't let her know of course. It's been 15 years since I was in school and entering the workplace but I can't see anything that's changed. Life is still more about how hard you work and the relationships you develop versus what useless knowledge some idiotic teacher tried feeding you. Am I wrong?

 

[Gunslinger08]

Education is about making your life easier. My 4 year degree got me a less physically demanding job with a higher salary than someone doing manual labor.

 

[Baked]

Yeah but are you driving to your $300/person sushi restaurant in your $100K Germany car wearing your $200 jeans? 'Cause that's all it comes down to in the end. Something they call quality of life.

 

[tasmanian]

The workplace has changed alot since 15 years ago. Your going to need a degree.

 

[ChaoZ]

Well how old are you? It might work back in your day, but that won't fly nowadays. Everything requires some kind of degree now.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

School is certainly not the only way to get an education but, it is usually the easiest route. Anyone who likes to read can easily get a GED these days. There are plenty of alternative schools around but, I would make sure the reasons the kids have for wanting to drop out don't revolve around laziness.

 

[frostedflakes]

Even today, I wouldn't say a degree is necessary to be successful. It definitely makes it easier, though. Just look at studies of income vs. level of education, on average someone who graduated HS will make more than someone who didn't. Just because you were able to climb your way up the ladder doesn't mean your daughter will be so lucky. Please encourage them to stay in school.

 

[IEC]

Obligatory :camera:s for ATOT

Your kids need to be told this: you may not like school. It may be boring as hell. It may be lots of learning useless information.

But you still have to do it. Jumping through hoops may not be fun or easy, but it sure as hell beats working at a $8/hr job for the rest of your life.

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: IamDavid
I myself never bought into the "be cool, stay in school" crap growing up. I ditched school as often as possible and dropped completely out by my sophomore year. I could never understand the point of attendance = education so I chose not to play. Instead, I worked my ass off and became the person I am today.
I'm now the sole provider for my family of six and I take care of my mother as well. We live very comfortably and my family wants for nothing. In fact, I believe they are becoming too spoiled and pampered. So to my question:
My kids are very bright but don't like school. In fact, my eldest can't stand it. Being a drop out I agree with her reasons but of course I can't let her know. It's been 15 years since I was in school and since entering the workplace I can't see anything that's changed. Life is still more about how hard you work and the relationships you develop versus what useless knowledge some idiotic teacher tried feeding you. Am I wrong?

Fixed some of the grammar and spelling.
Not going to school doesn't hurt a bit.

 

[Bibble]

Originally posted by: IamDavid
Life is still more about how hard you work and the relationships you develop versus what useless knowledge some idiotic teacher tried feeding you. Am I wrong?

You are right about this. However, I learnt this lesson in high school in addition the useless information you mention. In my experience, high school was about learning to work hard rather than memorizing facts. I have since applied this lesson in college to great success. When I graduate I will be rewarded with a nice piece of paper which raises my potential earnings so I can afford a few nice things throughout the rest of my life.

Of course, if your daughter's high school is only teaching facts and not life lessons then it may or may not be worth her time. I'd err on the side of caution and graduate/go to college, though.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: IamDavid
I myself never bought into the "be cool, stay in school" crap growing up. I ditched school as often as possible and dropped completely out by my sophomore year. I could never understand the point of attendance = education so I chose not to play. Instead, I worked my ass off and became the person I am today.
I'm now the sole provider for my family of six and I take care of my mother as well. We live very comfortably and my family wants for nothing. In fact, I believe they are becoming too spoiled and pampered. So to my question:
My kids are very bright but don't like school. In fact, my eldest can't stand it. Being a drop out I agree with her reasons but of course I can't let her know. It's been 15 years since I was in school and since entering the workplace I can't see anything that's changed. Life is still more about how hard you work and the relationships you develop versus what useless knowledge some idiotic teacher tried feeding you. Am I wrong?

Fixed some of the grammar and spelling.
Not going to school doesn't hurt a bit.

Because good spelling and grammar are the keys to success?

Just out of curiosity, what do you do OP?

 

[clamum]

Oh yeah, it's real overrated. This country is full of geniuses as it is, fuck school.

 

[Cattlegod]

if you look at now vs. 15 years ago:

HS education = dropout
Bachelor's degree = HS education
Master's degree = Bachelor's degree

 

[IamDavid]

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
Well how old are you? It might work back in your day, but that won't fly nowadays. Everything requires some kind of degree now.

I'm 30. Everyone claims a "degree" is required but I guarantee any company in my field would pay me allot more than most because of my work ethic and knowledge.
I work for one of the largest company's in the US/world. Agriculture based. I'm in middle management now and see no problems advancing if I choose. And I will be completely retired at 55.

And to the ones pointing out my poor spelling/grammar. Thanks. Maybe I'll hire u someday as my secretary.

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

You forget, OP, this board is populated solely by persons who have double or triple PhD's, sans yourself of course. Ergo, the only response you will receive is, "omG saty in skools elses yuo are beein'g a i love you lolz!"

As for my contribution, I highly recommend Diesel Jeans as the first step to success.

 

[Bignate603]

There's things besides a traditional school that can get you an education. A job that trains you is a great option for people who just don't want to stay sitting at a desk. My FIL is an electrician. He got into it by doing an apprenticeship for a few years. It's more physically demanding than a desk job but it's good honest work that pays well enough to support his family.

 

[DrPizza]

Jobs that will support a family of 6 without a high school degree are few and far between. All it takes is a simple look at statistics: the vast majority of people without a high school degree are going to live most of their lives near the poverty line. You may have gotten lucky, but despite what you may believe, hard work is only one part of the equation. Sometimes you simply have to be in the right place at the right time.

btw, what do you mean, "live very comfortably"? House is big enough that each child has their own bedroom? The kids get to go on nice vacations every year? The kids get to go to Europe on school trips? I thought I lived rather comfortably, and right now I'm struggling to figure out how I would be able to afford to send my younger son to both Alaska on a 2 weeks school trip, and to South Africa on another school sponsored trip (exotic big game hunt.) Heck, I'm hoping to figure out how to afford just one of those once in a lifetime opportunities for him. (I'd like to go on the Alaska trip myself & am hoping the two of us can do that one together.)

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
Well how old are you? It might work back in your day, but that won't fly nowadays. Everything requires some kind of degree now.

I'm 30. Everyone claims a "degree" is required but I guarantee any company in my field would pay me allot more than most because of my work ethic and knowledge.
I work for one of the largest company's in the US/world. Agriculture based. I'm in middle management now and see no problems advancing if I choose. And I will be completely retired at 55.

And to the ones pointing out my poor spelling/grammar. Thanks. Maybe I'll hire u someday as my secretary.

Really depends on the company, I guess. My father has basically hit a dead end at his current job because he lacks a college degree. He's been there around 20+ years (started on the line I believe and has worked his way up to management) and basically knows the plant inside and out. Yet what they'll do is hire some college grad for plant manager or something like that, and my dad basically has to show them (his superiors, mind you) the ropes and pick up their slack while they're figuring things out. Doesn't make much sense to me, I'd rather hire somebody who had worked his way up for decades and knows what he's doing, as opposed to hiring somebody outside the company. Just goes to show, though, that for some corporations, a college degree is more important than hard work and experience.

 

[IamDavid]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Jobs that will support a family of 6 without a high school degree are few and far between. All it takes is a simple look at statistics: the vast majority of people without a high school degree are going to live most of their lives near the poverty line. You may have gotten lucky, but despite what you may believe, hard work is only one part of the equation. Sometimes you simply have to be in the right place at the right time.

btw, what do you mean, "live very comfortably"? House is big enough that each child has their own bedroom? The kids get to go on nice vacations every year? The kids get to go to Europe on school trips? I thought I lived rather comfortably, and right now I'm struggling to figure out how I would be able to afford to send my younger son to both Alaska on a 2 weeks school trip, and to South Africa on another school sponsored trip (exotic big game hunt.) Heck, I'm hoping to figure out how to afford just one of those once in a lifetime opportunities for him. (I'd like to go on the Alaska trip myself & am hoping the two of us can do that one together.)

I know the statics and I believe they don't mean @#%$. People who are going to succeed in life will, those who aren't gonna do nothing won't. I completely agree with you on hard work being only part of success. The relationships you build is the other key. Luck has nothing to do with it. I was just as successful in my last career path until I decided I no longer wanted to continue it. I seen no long term personal satisfaction from it.
By successful I mean all my children have large rooms in our large house in a nice part of town. We vacation regularly and I have 0 debt., not even a car payment. Like I said earlier though, I'm kinda scared about it all now. Maybe my poor upbringing was a larger driving force behind my success then anything else. I never want my kids to go hungry or not have anything. Maybe it would be good for them though... That's an entire other thread I guess.

 

[IamDavid]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
Well how old are you? It might work back in your day, but that won't fly nowadays. Everything requires some kind of degree now.

I'm 30. Everyone claims a "degree" is required but I guarantee any company in my field would pay me allot more than most because of my work ethic and knowledge.
I work for one of the largest company's in the US/world. Agriculture based. I'm in middle management now and see no problems advancing if I choose. And I will be completely retired at 55.

And to the ones pointing out my poor spelling/grammar. Thanks. Maybe I'll hire u someday as my secretary.

Really depends on the company, I guess. My father has basically hit a dead end at his current job because he lacks a college degree. He's been there around 20+ years (started on the line I believe and has worked his way up to management) and basically knows the plant inside and out. Yet what they'll do is hire some college grad for plant manager or something like that, and my dad basically has to show them (his superiors, mind you) the ropes and pick up their slack while they're figuring things out. Doesn't make much sense to me, I'd rather hire somebody who had worked his way up for decades and knows what he's doing, as opposed to hiring somebody outside the company. Just goes to show, though, that for some corporations, a college degree is more important than hard work and experience.

By him knowing that and staying is kinda sad. I would never stay. Life is to short to stay in a dead end position unless that's what he wants. Some are like that which is OK.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: IamDavid
I myself never bought into the "be cool, stay in school" crap growing up. I ditched school as often as possable and dropped completely out by my sophomore year in high school. I could never understand the point of attendance = education so I chose not to play. Instead I worked my ass off and became the person I am today. I'm now the sole provider for my family of six and take care of my mother as well. We live very comfortably and my family wants for nothing, in fact I believe they are becoming to spoiled and pampered. So to my question,

My kids are very bright but don't like school. My eldest can't stand it. Me being a drop out agrees with her reasons but I can't let her know of course. It's been 15 years since I was in school and entering the workplace but I can't see anything that's changed. Life is still more about how hard you work and the relationships you develop versus what useless knowledge some idiotic teacher tried feeding you. Am I wrong?

Not necessarily. I think the primary thing most successful people carry over from their experiences in the educational system are discipline, and the knowledge of what it takes to succeed at something, whatever that something is.

The educational system really only works for people that are naturally curious about the topics they are exposed to, and who also enjoy process of education. You'll find deadbeats on either side of the fence, as you will find successes.

The main problem, though, is that today a lot of doors are closed without one having that piece of paper (several pieces of paper, really). You can be successful and happy without money, of course, but it all depends on how you define success and what truly makes you happy. What remains is that your available options today are severely limited b/c of requirements placed on employers, who may prefer to hire an "un-educated" (no degree) worker with plenty of experience over an inexperienced graduate, who may well be a lazy simpleton, but rules require that they fill positions based on a certain level of education.

As for your children, the best thing to do is to probably find out what truly interests them, their talents and curiosities, and see if they can somehow nurture that within an educational environment. If not, maybe a bit of self discipline?

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: IamDavid
I'm 30. Everyone claims a "degree" is required but I guarantee any company in my field would pay me allot more than most because of my work ethic and knowledge.
I work for one of the largest company's in the US/world. Agriculture based. I'm in middle management now and see no problems advancing if I choose. And I will be completely retired at 55.

And to the ones pointing out my poor spelling/grammar. Thanks. Maybe I'll hire u someday as my secretary.

Really depends on the company, I guess. My father has basically hit a dead end at his current job because he lacks a college degree. He's been there around 20+ years (started on the line I believe and has worked his way up to management) and basically knows the plant inside and out. Yet what they'll do is hire some college grad for plant manager or something like that, and my dad basically has to show them (his superiors, mind you) the ropes and pick up their slack while they're figuring things out. Doesn't make much sense to me, I'd rather hire somebody who had worked his way up for decades and knows what he's doing, as opposed to hiring somebody outside the company. Just goes to show, though, that for some corporations, a college degree is more important than hard work and experience.

By him knowing that and staying is kinda sad. I would never stay. Life is to short to stay in a dead end position unless that's what he wants. Some are like that which is OK.

I'm sure he'd love nothing more than to give them the finger, but he has a family to support, so that isn't exactly an option. Once he gets all the kids through college, though, I'm sure he'll be out of that job as soon as possible.

 

[alkemyst]

Can you get a good job and become rich without a degree or even high school? yes

However, the chances are very slim. With at least a degree (and now-a-days often certs) you are pretty much hired on face value. Without these things most will just junk the resume.

I know about 4 people making six figures without any formal education with one being an actual GED person.

That said I couldn't count how many are making six figures with a degree or two and were doing so very early on.

I will say as far as complete compensation those without the degrees are more or less usually working with little benefits or for themselves and those with the degrees are sitting on up to 100% healthcare and nice 401k/bonus contributions from their employers.

being your 15 years out...it's hard to say if you have the kind of potential to rise above or if even getting a degree would help you at this point.

 

[IamDavid]

frostedflakes
I wish your father well. Although I hope he doesn't waste his potential trying to "provide" for his kids. If college is what all you kids want then maybe they should get a job or take out loads to build their own future. Just my look at it. Even in this economy there are countless opportunities for people in his situation.

 

[StormRider]

To me an education is not a guarantee of success in life. Having more education increases your chances of being more successful in life but it's not a guarantee. You mentioned hard work as being more important. In my opinion, doing well in school can be an indicator of how hard a person is willing to work -- it's not a 100% correlation because someone could have had to work while in school versus someone who didn't have to work and could devote his/her full time to studying but there is some correlation there. That's because a person who is willing to go through something he/she doesn't like is probably more willing to work hard in real life than someone who says, "Who needs this crap? I'm going to the mall!"

Also, for me school is more the process of learning how to think than the learning of "useless" knowledge. It just so happens that the learning of this "useless" knowledge can help us learn how to think. It's kind of like exercise. Do we really use some of the motions in real life that some exercises have us to? But the process of going through some of those "useless" motions improve our general health -- which is useful in life. But again, it's not a guarantee as there are cases when some athletes died earlier than some of us fat slobs.