Import and Domestic Auto buyers are increasingly polarized...

Analog

Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
12,755
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At Southfield Chrysler Jeep, car dealer Dan Frost knew he had a winner when customers started turning in Toyota and Lexus vehicles to drive off in a Chrysler 300 sedan. "We very seldom ever see those trade-ins," he said.

But Chrysler counts two Japanese brands among the 10 most common trade-ins for the boldly styled, rear-wheel-drive 300.

As U.S. automakers struggle to fend off foreign rivals and boost earnings, they're striving to duplicate the success of the 300 to win back import drivers and reverse some ominous trends.

Detroit's carmakers are not only losing sales to Asian rivals, they are also losing choice customers as U.S. consumers increasingly separate into two camps: import buyers and loyalists to domestic brands.

Overall, buyers of domestic-brand vehicles tend to be older, less educated and less wealthy than owners of import brands. Over the past 10 years, the gap in income and education has widened, with the most desirable customers flocking to foreign brands.

"The income is a worrying sign," said David Ensing, director of automotive research at St. Louis-based Maritz Inc. "If you're not keeping up with other manufacturers, it probably means some of your more profitable customers are going away."

Most of those customers never look back, according to data showing that import buyers may switch brands but rarely return to domestic nameplates.

"A lot of people have gone to the Japanese, and it'll be tough for the domestics to get them back," said George Peterson, president of consulting firm Auto Pacific.

"Consumers were burned in the late 1970s and 1980s, and this is still hurting domestic manufacturers," he said. "They deserve to get (people) back, but it'll be tough."

This year, General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. are rolling out new models designed to win back customers from foreign brands, which now hold 40 percent of the market. With the launch this month of the Pontiac Solstice, starting at $19,995, GM scored a conquest with its first sale, to Shelly and Clark Brinton.

The Meridian, Idaho, couple also own a Honda Accord, a Mazda Protege and a GMC Yukon Denali truck. "I've always wanted a little roadster. We looked at the (Nissan) 350Z, but when I saw the Solstice, I fell in love with it. The look, the price -- everything about it," said Shelly Brinton.

With the new Ford Fusion, a small car scheduled to hit showrooms in mid-September, Ford wants to hang on to owners of the Ford Focus compact as they move up to the midsize car segment. The top sellers in that category are the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord.

Ford is touting the Fusion's sharp driving dynamics and snappy styling, including two-toned stitching on the leather seats, to appeal to car buyers tempted by import brands. "We understand we're losing some customers today," said Dan Geist, marketing manager for the Fusion.

Buying American

The Chrysler 300 sedan, one of Detroit's biggest hits in years, helped DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group expand its customer base and market share by attracting import buyers. Some 16 percent of the trade-ins for the 300 are foreign nameplates, about double the average for Detroit manufacturers, the company says.

But generally, said Chrysler's brand marketing chief George Murphy, "I don't see a big shift in cross-shopping between traditional domestic producers and imports. That's one of the challenges we have -- to appeal more to the import buyer."

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/15/A01-280996.htm
 

Sheepathon

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2003
6,093
7
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Well, if the domestics were actually built as well as the imports then maybe they wouldn't be outsold...brilliant!
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: Sheepathon
Well, if the domestics were actually built as well as the imports then maybe they wouldn't be outsold...brilliant!

...
Profit!
 

DurocShark

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
15,708
5
56
I suspect there is little difference in quality anymore. My 96 S-10 was just as well built as my Volvo.

No, it's perception now.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
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Originally posted by: DurocShark
I suspect there is little difference in quality anymore. My 96 S-10 was just as well built as my Volvo.

No, it's perception now.

Quality is exactly the difference. It's reliability that might be closing the gap. Most Japanese cars are just built to a much higher degree of quality. Seating positions. Control placements. Rattles, squeeks, gaps in panels, ect.

You just get a better put together car for the money.

Money wise you might spend the same in repairs between the two, but for the tens of thousands of dollars I want something that stays put together longer. The rattles, squeeks, shoddy trim pieces, and seats that turn to mush in domestics just aren't worth my money.

Plus domestic brands offer me nothing compelling for my money.

I'm looking at a small to midsize truck right now. The ranger is about a decade old, unrefined, small, and the same crap it was 10 years ago. The GM clones are an over all "meh". Underpowered, small, and lackluster. The Dokota is the only midsize domestic I'd look at. But even then I could care less when the Tacoma and Frontiers are much better vehicles for the money.

When it comes to sedans, why would I ever consider buying crapwagon Taurus when a Camry is bigger, more refined, more comfortable, and has twice the resale value of a domestic product?

Full size trucks and SUV's are the only market that the domestics still have a strong hold of. And that's dwindling because rising gas prices and a slow fight back from the imports. Regardless of sales at this point, Big Iron in Detroit has to be somewhat concerned of the Titans and upcoming Tundras that will be on lots.

Detroit got lazy and didn't keep the eye on the ball. They got beat at their own game. They have to use lucrative incentives and promotions to move vehicles.

Smart buyers buy the better vehicle. Not the cheaper one.
 

franksta

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2001
1,967
6
81
Originally posted by: DurocShark
I suspect there is little difference in quality anymore. My 96 S-10 was just as well built as my Volvo.

No, it's perception now.

QFT.

I can count on one hand the number of problems I've had with both vehicles. (F-150 and S40)
 

Malfeas

Senior member
Apr 27, 2005
829
0
76
Well, American manufacturers just don't make any vehicles that appeal to me. I can count on one hand the number of domestic vehicles I would find acceptable to buy, but I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the foreign cars I would drive.
 

franksta

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2001
1,967
6
81
Originally posted by: Malfeas
Well, American manufacturers just don't make any vehicles that appeal to me. I can count on one hand the number of domestic vehicles I would find acceptable to buy, but I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the foreign cars I would drive.

The fact that there's only 3 main domestic manufacturers and at least 20+ imports wouldn't have anything to do with that.
 

Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,519
2
81
Originally posted by: franksta
Originally posted by: DurocShark
I suspect there is little difference in quality anymore. My 96 S-10 was just as well built as my Volvo.

No, it's perception now.

QFT.

I can count on one hand the number of problems I've had with both vehicles. (F-150 and S40)

I can't count on my hand the number of problems I've had with my Japanese vehicle....because I haven't had any! :p
 

Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,519
2
81
Originally posted by: franksta
Originally posted by: Malfeas
Well, American manufacturers just don't make any vehicles that appeal to me. I can count on one hand the number of domestic vehicles I would find acceptable to buy, but I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the foreign cars I would drive.

The fact that there's only 3 main domestic manufacturers and at least 20+ imports wouldn't have anything to do with that.

What does that have to do with the fact that the majority of the vehicles the Big 2.5 car makers churn out are crap? GM, Ford, and DC are HUGE companies, emcompassing many brands and many vehicles.
 

tennisflip

Golden Member
Sep 25, 2003
1,845
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Originally posted by: Ryan
Originally posted by: franksta
Originally posted by: DurocShark
I suspect there is little difference in quality anymore. My 96 S-10 was just as well built as my Volvo.

No, it's perception now.

QFT.

I can count on one hand the number of problems I've had with both vehicles. (F-150 and S40)

I can't count on my hand the number of problems I've had with my Japanese vehicle....because I haven't had any! :p

The two American cars we own are a Blazer and a Trailblazer. I have to use all my appendages to count the number of problems we've had.
 

franksta

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2001
1,967
6
81
Originally posted by: Ryan
Originally posted by: franksta
Originally posted by: Malfeas
Well, American manufacturers just don't make any vehicles that appeal to me. I can count on one hand the number of domestic vehicles I would find acceptable to buy, but I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the foreign cars I would drive.

The fact that there's only 3 main domestic manufacturers and at least 20+ imports wouldn't have anything to do with that.

What does that have to do with the fact that the majority of the vehicles the Big 2.5 car makers churn out are crap?

The fact is, there are FAR more unique imports than domestics. Don't try to skew this with an opinion.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: tennisflip
Originally posted by: Ryan
Originally posted by: franksta
Originally posted by: DurocShark
I suspect there is little difference in quality anymore. My 96 S-10 was just as well built as my Volvo.

No, it's perception now.

QFT.

I can count on one hand the number of problems I've had with both vehicles. (F-150 and S40)

I can't count on my hand the number of problems I've had with my Japanese vehicle....because I haven't had any! :p

The two American cars we own are a Blazer and a Trailblazer. I have to use all my appendages to count the number of problems we've had.

ya, me too, i have a '99 ford windstar and a '98 Olds intrigue, 98k miles on the ford and 120k miles on the olds.

hmmm, new sets of tires on each (not really considered a repair), 2 sets of brake pads on each, 1 set of calipers on the olds (my fault not a manufacturing defect, a honda or toyota would have needed the same repair given how i drove the olds after the pads wore down) and one set of stabilizers on the olds (hit too many potholes).

almost everyone of those things would have happened no matter what car i was driving.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: Ryan
Originally posted by: franksta
Originally posted by: Malfeas
Well, American manufacturers just don't make any vehicles that appeal to me. I can count on one hand the number of domestic vehicles I would find acceptable to buy, but I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the foreign cars I would drive.

The fact that there's only 3 main domestic manufacturers and at least 20+ imports wouldn't have anything to do with that.

What does that have to do with the fact that the majority of the vehicles the Big 2.5 car makers churn out are crap? GM, Ford, and DC are HUGE companies, emcompassing many brands and many vehicles.

your powers of logic are ASTOUNDING.

this is what passes for a "more educated" import buyer these days?

 

Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,519
2
81
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Ryan
Originally posted by: franksta
Originally posted by: Malfeas
Well, American manufacturers just don't make any vehicles that appeal to me. I can count on one hand the number of domestic vehicles I would find acceptable to buy, but I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the foreign cars I would drive.

The fact that there's only 3 main domestic manufacturers and at least 20+ imports wouldn't have anything to do with that.

What does that have to do with the fact that the majority of the vehicles the Big 2.5 car makers churn out are crap? GM, Ford, and DC are HUGE companies, emcompassing many brands and many vehicles.

your powers of logic are ASTOUNDING.

this is what passes for a "more educated" import buyer these days?

I'm sorry - but two of the largest vehicle manufacturers in the world should have the capabilities to produce more acceptable products than they already do in the US. Ford owns many different brands overseas, hell, they even sell a better Focus overseas - but here in the Good Ol' US of A - we get warmed over turds. Same with GM - they have so many stellar products overseas, yet they always dumb them down when they're brought to the US, or don't offer them at all (Opel is a prime example of this).
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: Ryan
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Ryan
Originally posted by: franksta
Originally posted by: Malfeas
Well, American manufacturers just don't make any vehicles that appeal to me. I can count on one hand the number of domestic vehicles I would find acceptable to buy, but I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the foreign cars I would drive.

The fact that there's only 3 main domestic manufacturers and at least 20+ imports wouldn't have anything to do with that.

What does that have to do with the fact that the majority of the vehicles the Big 2.5 car makers churn out are crap? GM, Ford, and DC are HUGE companies, emcompassing many brands and many vehicles.

your powers of logic are ASTOUNDING.

this is what passes for a "more educated" import buyer these days?

I'm sorry - but two of the largest vehicle manufacturers in the world should have the capabilities to produce more acceptable products than they already do in the US. Ford owns many different brands overseas, hell, they even sell a better Focus overseas - but here in the Good Ol' US of A - we get warmed over turds. Same with GM - they have so many stellar products overseas, yet they always dumb them down when they're brought to the US, or don't offer them at all (Opel is a prime example of this).

let me rephrase all of that.

it is more likely that any one individual will find more specific cars that he likes among the 30 odd foreign car manufacturers than he would among the 3 domestics. that's simple logic.

btw, i'm willing to bet the first poster in this string of quotes didn't consider Volvo, aston martin, mazda or jaguar as "fords"
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
What amazes me is how attached people get attached to brands. Some are so vocal about it you have to wonder if they are being paid a royalty. I could care less whether my CPU is Intel or AMD, my OS Apple or MS, or my car built by Ford or Toyota etc. In all cases what matters to me is getting the most value for my dollar at the time of purchase along with the product doing the function it was designed for in a reliable manner over the time I plan to use it. If I was looking for a car today I would look at all the brands that produce a model of the type I was looking for based on the previously stated criteria. In the end my purchase will not have anything to do with whether that car is "foreign" or "domestic".
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
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I'm still trying to figure out the 30 number here...

Let's just focus on "mainstream" cars. Not Luxury.

For domestics we have:
1) Chevy
2) GMC
3) Pontiac
4) Saturn
5) Buick
6) Caddilac (although that's arguably luxury)

7) Ford
8) Mercury
9) Lincoln (Again arguably luxury)

10) Dodge
11) Chrysler

12) Hummer for the sake of having it here

For the imports we have:

1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Nissan
4) Mitsubishi
5) Hyundai
6) Kia
7) Volkswagen
8) Subaru
9) Mazda(though it's arguably 1/2 domestic)
10) Izuzu
11) Suzuki
12) Mini, only because it's cheap and because I put Hummer up above

Looks about even to me.
 

akubi

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
4,392
1
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imports win all the awards in magazines and websites like edmunds... another reason why people flock to imports.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: vi_edit
I'm still trying to figure out the 30 number here...

Let's just focus on "mainstream" cars. Not Luxury.

For domestics we have:
1) Chevy
2) GMC
3) Pontiac
4) Saturn
5) Buick
6) Caddilac (although that's arguably luxury)

7) Ford
8) Mercury
9) Lincoln (Again arguably luxury)

10) Dodge
11) Chrysler

12) Hummer for the sake of having it here

For the imports we have:

1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Nissan
4) Mitsubishi
5) Hyundai
6) Kia
7) Volkswagen
8) Subaru
9) Mazda(though it's arguably 1/2 domestic)
10) Izuzu
11) Suzuki
12) Mini, only because it's cheap and because I put Hummer up above

Looks about even to me.

Cadillac is definately luxury, hell its classed up against Mercedes and BMW.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: vi_edit
I'm still trying to figure out the 30 number here...

Let's just focus on "mainstream" cars. Not Luxury.

For domestics we have:
1) Chevy
2) GMC
3) Pontiac
4) Saturn
5) Buick
6) Caddilac (although that's arguably luxury)

7) Ford
8) Mercury
9) Lincoln (Again arguably luxury)

10) Dodge
11) Chrysler

12) Hummer for the sake of having it here

For the imports we have:

1) Toyota
2) Honda
3) Nissan
4) Mitsubishi
5) Hyundai
6) Kia
7) Volkswagen
8) Subaru
9) Mazda(though it's arguably 1/2 domestic)
10) Izuzu
11) Suzuki
12) Mini, only because it's cheap and because I put Hummer up above

Looks about even to me.

thats BS.

Ford and Mercury are all cross platform. most lincolns share parts with fords. Pontiac, Buick and Chevrolet are all basically automanufacturer and not many people are going to cross shop those brands.

lets see, how many of the imports you posted share parts with another on that list? oh ya, almost none. plus you left out Audi (not luxury), BMW (low end no different market from Lincoln and Caddy), Mercedes, Volvo, Saab, Jaguar and i'm sure there are more i just can't remember at the moment.
 

m2kewl

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2001
8,263
0
0
article ain't lying.

as a test, someone in NYC take a drive along Flatbush Ave. in the poor areas, you will see a boat load of domestics. once you enter park slopes, take a look at the imports and german bmws.
 

marvdmartian

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2002
5,444
27
91
buyers of domestic-brand vehicles tend to be older, less educated and less wealthy than owners of import brands

Funny......I would have thought they were more wealthy......just to afford the atrocious gas bill they've got!! :roll:

I've driven both domestic and imported brands, and overall, I'd stick with my Nissan truck. It's over 7 years old, and I've had to put less than $500 of repairs into it.....not bad for a 4x4 truck! :D

Although I do have to say that while I was thinking of getting a new Nissan Titan, the fact that gasoline is hitting $2.50 a gallon is probably going to make me stick with my little Frontier. It's paid for, and gets decent enough mileage for what I'm doing with it (short commute every day, couple extra trips a week). Then, come spring, if I can swing it, I might put myself into a Pontiac Solstice.......it'll be my mid-age crisis present to myself!! :laugh:
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
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Ford and Mercury are all cross platform. most lincolns share parts with fords. Pontiac, Buick and Chevrolet are all basically automanufacturer and not many people are going to cross shop those brands.

No it's not BS and it's EXACTLY the problem. Domestics have all of these nameplates but it's the same regurgitated crap with a different logo. It's no fault of the imports that the domestics have dilluted their brands down so much and offer no unique or compelling products from any of the lineups.

As for Audi not being luxury, I'd disagree with that. And so would they. The only real reason I put Cadillac on the list because it's the only GM product line that doesn't share a majority of it's cars with another platform/car from the GM lineup. The Escalade does, but the CTS, SRX, XLR and STS do not.

Toyota, Nissan, Volkswagen and Honda all share platforms across their lineups and build compelling reasons to want to choose the luxury end over the more mainstream end. There's a noticable difference when you step up from a Camry to a Lexus ES330 even though it's a lot of the same car. Same thing from a Highlander to a RX330.

A civic is quite a bit different from an Acura RSX. Nissan killed the Infinit I35 to make way for the G35. And that differentation from the Maxima has been a huge success.

The domestic nameplates aren't doing enough to make each brand shine apart from each other.