• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Impending meltdown of CTA rail service to North Chicago

K1052

Elite Member
CTA riders are in for a rail mess
North Side work may double travel times

By Jon Hilkevitch
Tribune transportation reporter

January 11, 2007

Commuters who thought the Dan Ryan Expressway reconstruction failed to live up to all the hype about traffic gridlock should try riding the most heavily traveled CTA rail corridor starting in the spring.

That is, if they can somehow squeeze aboard a train.

Capacity on many parts of the rail system now is full at the height of the morning and evening rush. And things will get even worse as the CTA starts the next and most disruptive phase of its $530 million Brown Line expansion project.

Travel times are expected to as much as double when one out of the four tracks used by the Red, Brown and Purple/Evanston Express Lines between the Armitage and Addison stations will be taken out of service from about April 2 through the end of 2009, transit officials said Wednesday.

The elevated tracks traverse the Lincoln Park and Lakeview neighborhoods and are among the CTA's busiest. The corridor carries 185,000 passengers on about 1,000 trains each day.

The almost three-year, 25 percent reduction in the corridor's track capacity is the painful price for expanding service enough to meet future ridership growth, CTA officials warned in providing the first details of the plan.

The phased-in changes will allow the CTA to keep the rail lines open while expanding platforms at the Belmont and Fullerton stations and building new tracks. Trains will continue to make all station stops.

But waiting and boarding times will rise, and trains will fill up earlier on their routes while the work is being done.

So start making alternative plans to ride the bus or Metra trains. Carpool. Go buy a good pair of walking shoes. Pump up the tires in your bicycle or motor scooter. Switch your travel times to earlier or later in the day. Or maybe ask your boss for a three-year sabbatical.

Starting in April, northbound Red, Brown and Purple Line trains will share one track for part of the way from south of Fullerton to north of Belmont, then be switched back to the regular two-track configuration.

Southbound trains will operate on two tracks as normal--the outside track for the Brown and Purple Lines and the inside track for the Red Line.

Train schedules will be pared to accommodate the reduction in tracks. Running the same number of trains would create horrendous bottlenecks at crossover points where trains merge onto a single track near the stations, officials said.

The Purple Line schedule will be cut back the most, officials said. Purple Line riders will be encouraged to ride the all-stop Red Line instead.

To alleviate crowding downtown, Purple Line trains, which normally run clockwise around the Loop, will switch to the counterclockwise direction on the outer track, as the Brown Line does, officials said.

The crunch will be worst during the evening rush for northbound commuters on the three lines sharing one track for a portion of the routes.

But transit officials say the impact will be felt on other rail routes too.

"Depending on where you live, in an extreme case you should budget up to double the amount of time to get home and 50 percent additional time to get to work in the morning," said Michael Shiffer, CTA vice president of planning and development.

"Trains will be more crowded. It will be difficult to board during rush hours," Shiffer told the CTA board, adding that commuting times should improve over time as people adapt to new travel patterns and as the CTA hopes to add back some trains.

The service changes are still nearly three months away, but as word spread Wednesday, CTA customers started to worry.

"Does the CTA want to get rid of all of its riders? That's one way to alleviate overcrowding on trains," said a commuter named Katharine who did not want her full name used.

"It currently takes 45-plus minutes to get from the Loop to the Kimball station" on the Brown Line, she said. "It is now going to be 1 1/2 hours to travel 9 miles as the crow flies?"

Capacity will be reduced by 16 trains, or about 8,640 passengers, on southbound runs between 6 a.m. and 9:30 a.m., the CTA said.

The cuts will be twice as deep later in the day.

Northbound between 3 p.m. and 6:30 p.m., there will be 31 fewer trains--reducing passenger capacity by 17,460 passengers--because the Red, Brown and Purple Line trains will temporarily share one track at the Fullerton and Belmont stations. The two stations are being relocated and replaced with larger facilities.

CTA officials say the impact of three-track operations will stretch as far as the Addison station to the north and the Armitage stop to the south.

And that's if everything goes according to plan, which would be almost unprecedented for the CTA.

The rail system has been plagued in recent months by a series of fires, derailments and track-switching problems that have snarled operations and delayed commuters, who are becoming increasingly impatient with the transit agency.

Referring to the possibility of balky track switches and other disruptions during the three-track operations, CTA president Frank Kruesi acknowledged, "If we have one hiccup, it will multiply the problems we would have had with four tracks."

CTA officials say they are getting the word out now in the hope that transit riders will find alternative travel choices.

Higher ridership is expected on the Blue Line and some bus routes due to riders switching commuting patterns, officials said. Some equipment may be shifted to the Blue Line to help operations there, Kruesi said.

Some North Side rail commuters are expected to try the express bus routes on North Lake Shore Drive or regular bus routes on major arterial roads, including Clark and Halsted Streets, Lincoln Avenue and Broadway. Shuttle buses will also operate at least initially to take passengers beyond the Fullerton-Belmont area and link them with trains at other stations or regular bus routes, officials said.

A 25% capacity cut (at least) lasting at least three years assuming no delays (haha) on lines that are already overcrowded. The freaking entire Northside Main branch of the L was constructed from scratch in less time back in the 1890s. I ride the L from one of those stations and let me tell you there is no excess capacity at rush periods, stuffing myself onto a crush loaded train is a common occurrence.

CTA has nothing like the number of busses that will be required to take on the load form decreased rail capacity. The North side is going to be totally fvcked when baseball season swings around and the Cubs start to play.

The Red Line on on the north side past where they are doing the work is also in horrible shape. Commutes for those unfortunate souls who live north of Wrigley will likely climb to a couple hours if they take the train.


 
Originally posted by: K1052

A 25% capacity cut (at least) lasting at least three years assuming no delays (haha) on lines that are already overcrowded. The freaking entire Northside Main branch of the L was constructed from scratch in less time back in the 1890s. I ride the L from one of those stations and let me tell you there is no excess capacity at rush periods, stuffing myself onto a crush loaded train is a common occurrence.

CTA has nothing like the number of busses that will be required to take on the load form decreased rail capacity. The North side is going to be totally fvcked when baseball season swings around and the Cubs start to play.

The Red Line on on the north side past where they are doing the work is also in horrible shape. Commutes for those unfortunate souls who live north of Wrigley will likely climb to a couple hours if they take the train.

Oh boo hoo, at least you have mass transit.

Here's a small violin for you Chicagoans :music:
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: K1052

A 25% capacity cut (at least) lasting at least three years assuming no delays (haha) on lines that are already overcrowded. The freaking entire Northside Main branch of the L was constructed from scratch in less time back in the 1890s. I ride the L from one of those stations and let me tell you there is no excess capacity at rush periods, stuffing myself onto a crush loaded train is a common occurrence.

CTA has nothing like the number of busses that will be required to take on the load form decreased rail capacity. The North side is going to be totally fvcked when baseball season swings around and the Cubs start to play.

The Red Line on on the north side past where they are doing the work is also in horrible shape. Commutes for those unfortunate souls who live north of Wrigley will likely climb to a couple hours if they take the train.

Oh boo hoo, at least you have mass transit.

Here's a small violin for you Chicagoans :music:

Tulsa, OK population: 400K

Chicago, IL population: 3M

suburbs excluded

 
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: K1052

A 25% capacity cut (at least) lasting at least three years assuming no delays (haha) on lines that are already overcrowded. The freaking entire Northside Main branch of the L was constructed from scratch in less time back in the 1890s. I ride the L from one of those stations and let me tell you there is no excess capacity at rush periods, stuffing myself onto a crush loaded train is a common occurrence.

CTA has nothing like the number of busses that will be required to take on the load form decreased rail capacity. The North side is going to be totally fvcked when baseball season swings around and the Cubs start to play.

The Red Line on on the north side past where they are doing the work is also in horrible shape. Commutes for those unfortunate souls who live north of Wrigley will likely climb to a couple hours if they take the train.

Oh boo hoo, at least you have mass transit.

Here's a small violin for you Chicagoans :music:

Tulsa, OK population: 400K

Chicago, IL population: 3M

suburbs excluded

9.5M for the whole metro area (suburbs included)
 
Originally posted by: sandorski
Unfortunetly if that's what needs to be done, that's what needs to be done.

Some of this is a result of long deferred maintenance. Most of the structure hasn't been touched since it was built at the turn of the century. The switching and signal systems are older than any of the people working on them/running them. The Red Line north of Belmont is in horrible (and likely very unsafe) condition.

The capacity expansion will be welcome but the timeframe for the work is insane.

 
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).
 
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).

Nothing I love more than govt subsidies.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).

Nothing I love more than govt subsidies.

There are a few times I think they are justified and the RTA here qualifies IMO. I can only imagine the horror of all the METRA (commuter rail) and CTA customers taking to the roads. Though the agencys themselves need better oversight.
 
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).

Nothing I love more than govt subsidies.

There are a few times I think they are justified and the RTA here qualifies IMO. I can only imagine the horror of all the METRA (commuter rail) and CTA customers taking to the roads. Though the agencys themselves need better oversight.

Imagine if all the billions were spent on expanding the road system 🙂

This is a common trap many people fall into. Believing if there isnt a train out there the roads go to hell and a handbasket. Then they spend way more for a train, the roads are still a mess and the transit dept is straddled with a money drain in the train because nobody wants to force the riders to actually pay their fair share. Because,well, obviously it will drive the riders away hehe. Pun intended of course 😀

Minneapolis is going through the same BS lying by the big govt types and business's who cash in on the govt contracts. They promised better congestion on hwy 55 along the Hiwatha line they spent a billion on. That never came true. They lowball the ridership to make it look like it is demanded more so they can justify spending billions more on a rail line from minneapolis to st paul. And instead of expanding our roads they want to put a train up the i-94 corridor that 12 people will ride while the roads continue to suck wind.



 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).

Nothing I love more than govt subsidies.

There are a few times I think they are justified and the RTA here qualifies IMO. I can only imagine the horror of all the METRA (commuter rail) and CTA customers taking to the roads. Though the agencys themselves need better oversight.

Imagine if all the billions were spent on expanding the road system 🙂

This is a common trap many people fall into. Believing if there isnt a train out there the roads go to hell and a handbasket. Then they spend way more for a train, the roads are still a mess and the transit dept is straddled with a money drain in the train because nobody wants to force the riders to actually pay their fair share. Because,well, obviously it will drive the riders away hehe. Pun intended of course 😀

Minneapolis is going through the same BS lying by the big govt types and business's who cash in on the govt contracts. They promised better congestion on hwy 55 along the Hiwatha line they spent a billion on. That never came true. They lowball the ridership to make it look like it is demanded more so they can justify spending billions more on a rail line from minneapolis to st paul. And instead of expanding our roads they want to put a train up the i-94 corridor that 12 people will ride while the roads continue to suck wind.

Ridership is particularly heavy on the branch of line in question (185,000 passengers a day). You should see what happens to traffic on the north side here when there is a Cubs game or Friday/Sat night. There really is no way to improve the roads to increase traffic flow since all the land is developed and the layout of the street grid here.

The expressways and tollways are still a PITA at peak travel times despite several expansions and widenings (more in the works too).
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).

Nothing I love more than govt subsidies.

There are a few times I think they are justified and the RTA here qualifies IMO. I can only imagine the horror of all the METRA (commuter rail) and CTA customers taking to the roads. Though the agencys themselves need better oversight.

Imagine if all the billions were spent on expanding the road system 🙂

This is a common trap many people fall into. Believing if there isnt a train out there the roads go to hell and a handbasket. Then they spend way more for a train, the roads are still a mess and the transit dept is straddled with a money drain in the train because nobody wants to force the riders to actually pay their fair share. Because,well, obviously it will drive the riders away hehe. Pun intended of course 😀

Minneapolis is going through the same BS lying by the big govt types and business's who cash in on the govt contracts. They promised better congestion on hwy 55 along the Hiwatha line they spent a billion on. That never came true. They lowball the ridership to make it look like it is demanded more so they can justify spending billions more on a rail line from minneapolis to st paul. And instead of expanding our roads they want to put a train up the i-94 corridor that 12 people will ride while the roads continue to suck wind.

Mass Transit systems are much more Energy and Space Efficient and decrease Health problems caused by pollution. Their value to a well functioning City makes them worth it.
 
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).

Nothing I love more than govt subsidies.

There are a few times I think they are justified and the RTA here qualifies IMO. I can only imagine the horror of all the METRA (commuter rail) and CTA customers taking to the roads. Though the agencys themselves need better oversight.

Imagine if all the billions were spent on expanding the road system 🙂

This is a common trap many people fall into. Believing if there isnt a train out there the roads go to hell and a handbasket. Then they spend way more for a train, the roads are still a mess and the transit dept is straddled with a money drain in the train because nobody wants to force the riders to actually pay their fair share. Because,well, obviously it will drive the riders away hehe. Pun intended of course 😀

Minneapolis is going through the same BS lying by the big govt types and business's who cash in on the govt contracts. They promised better congestion on hwy 55 along the Hiwatha line they spent a billion on. That never came true. They lowball the ridership to make it look like it is demanded more so they can justify spending billions more on a rail line from minneapolis to st paul. And instead of expanding our roads they want to put a train up the i-94 corridor that 12 people will ride while the roads continue to suck wind.

Mass Transit systems are much more Energy and Space Efficient and decrease Health problems caused by pollution. Their value to a well functioning City makes them worth it.


I am sure the buses running around Minneapolis with 3 people on them riding the side of the highways which errodes them faster, burning as much fuel as 30 cars is way more efficient than if those people were driving :disgust:

btw the funny part is if you look around the country and see these big mass transit systems you will note the cities are full of gridlock.


 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).

Nothing I love more than govt subsidies.

There are a few times I think they are justified and the RTA here qualifies IMO. I can only imagine the horror of all the METRA (commuter rail) and CTA customers taking to the roads. Though the agencys themselves need better oversight.

Imagine if all the billions were spent on expanding the road system 🙂

This is a common trap many people fall into. Believing if there isnt a train out there the roads go to hell and a handbasket. Then they spend way more for a train, the roads are still a mess and the transit dept is straddled with a money drain in the train because nobody wants to force the riders to actually pay their fair share. Because,well, obviously it will drive the riders away hehe. Pun intended of course 😀

Minneapolis is going through the same BS lying by the big govt types and business's who cash in on the govt contracts. They promised better congestion on hwy 55 along the Hiwatha line they spent a billion on. That never came true. They lowball the ridership to make it look like it is demanded more so they can justify spending billions more on a rail line from minneapolis to st paul. And instead of expanding our roads they want to put a train up the i-94 corridor that 12 people will ride while the roads continue to suck wind.

Mass Transit systems are much more Energy and Space Efficient and decrease Health problems caused by pollution. Their value to a well functioning City makes them worth it.


I am sure the buses running around Minneapolis with 3 people on them riding the side of the highways which errodes them faster, burning as much fuel as 30 cars is way more efficient than if those people were driving :disgust:

btw the funny part is if you look around the country and see these big mass transit systems you will note the cities are full of gridlock.

Every Bus has 3 passengers all the time?

Cities have gridlock because there are just so many people in a confined space, it has nothing to do with a lack of Roads or having Mass Transit.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).

Nothing I love more than govt subsidies.

There are a few times I think they are justified and the RTA here qualifies IMO. I can only imagine the horror of all the METRA (commuter rail) and CTA customers taking to the roads. Though the agencys themselves need better oversight.

Imagine if all the billions were spent on expanding the road system 🙂

This is a common trap many people fall into. Believing if there isnt a train out there the roads go to hell and a handbasket. Then they spend way more for a train, the roads are still a mess and the transit dept is straddled with a money drain in the train because nobody wants to force the riders to actually pay their fair share. Because,well, obviously it will drive the riders away hehe. Pun intended of course 😀

Minneapolis is going through the same BS lying by the big govt types and business's who cash in on the govt contracts. They promised better congestion on hwy 55 along the Hiwatha line they spent a billion on. That never came true. They lowball the ridership to make it look like it is demanded more so they can justify spending billions more on a rail line from minneapolis to st paul. And instead of expanding our roads they want to put a train up the i-94 corridor that 12 people will ride while the roads continue to suck wind.

Mass Transit systems are much more Energy and Space Efficient and decrease Health problems caused by pollution. Their value to a well functioning City makes them worth it.


I am sure the buses running around Minneapolis with 3 people on them riding the side of the highways which errodes them faster, burning as much fuel as 30 cars is way more efficient than if those people were driving :disgust:

btw the funny part is if you look around the country and see these big mass transit systems you will note the cities are full of gridlock.
It is impossible for any mass transit system to serve everyone with equal convenience and some people just won't give up the car for one reason or another. It looks like the attempt in MN has soured you completely on the idea, which is unfortunate but it seems not to have been thought out very well in the first place. Chicago's mass transit system has been in place and expanding for over 100 years and is pretty well used. Given the city's central planning and geographical constraints it still makes sense here.

If you come on down here sometime I'd be more than happy to escort you on a rush hour tour of the city's train and bus transportation facilities. 😛


 
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).

Nothing I love more than govt subsidies.

There are a few times I think they are justified and the RTA here qualifies IMO. I can only imagine the horror of all the METRA (commuter rail) and CTA customers taking to the roads. Though the agencys themselves need better oversight.

Imagine if all the billions were spent on expanding the road system 🙂

This is a common trap many people fall into. Believing if there isnt a train out there the roads go to hell and a handbasket. Then they spend way more for a train, the roads are still a mess and the transit dept is straddled with a money drain in the train because nobody wants to force the riders to actually pay their fair share. Because,well, obviously it will drive the riders away hehe. Pun intended of course 😀

Minneapolis is going through the same BS lying by the big govt types and business's who cash in on the govt contracts. They promised better congestion on hwy 55 along the Hiwatha line they spent a billion on. That never came true. They lowball the ridership to make it look like it is demanded more so they can justify spending billions more on a rail line from minneapolis to st paul. And instead of expanding our roads they want to put a train up the i-94 corridor that 12 people will ride while the roads continue to suck wind.

Mass Transit systems are much more Energy and Space Efficient and decrease Health problems caused by pollution. Their value to a well functioning City makes them worth it.


I am sure the buses running around Minneapolis with 3 people on them riding the side of the highways which errodes them faster, burning as much fuel as 30 cars is way more efficient than if those people were driving :disgust:

btw the funny part is if you look around the country and see these big mass transit systems you will note the cities are full of gridlock.

Every Bus has 3 passengers all the time?

Cities have gridlock because there are just so many people in a confined space, it has nothing to do with a lack of Roads or having Mass Transit.

Pretty close. There was a strike by the bus drivers about 10 years ago and nobody even noticed. They were on strike for about a month if memory serves me correctly.

A road is like a pipe, make it wide enough and it wont clog. So yes, I agree that more people confined to an area == gridlock. That is because the pipe wasnt built wide enough.

 
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).

Nothing I love more than govt subsidies.

There are a few times I think they are justified and the RTA here qualifies IMO. I can only imagine the horror of all the METRA (commuter rail) and CTA customers taking to the roads. Though the agencys themselves need better oversight.

Imagine if all the billions were spent on expanding the road system 🙂

This is a common trap many people fall into. Believing if there isnt a train out there the roads go to hell and a handbasket. Then they spend way more for a train, the roads are still a mess and the transit dept is straddled with a money drain in the train because nobody wants to force the riders to actually pay their fair share. Because,well, obviously it will drive the riders away hehe. Pun intended of course 😀

Minneapolis is going through the same BS lying by the big govt types and business's who cash in on the govt contracts. They promised better congestion on hwy 55 along the Hiwatha line they spent a billion on. That never came true. They lowball the ridership to make it look like it is demanded more so they can justify spending billions more on a rail line from minneapolis to st paul. And instead of expanding our roads they want to put a train up the i-94 corridor that 12 people will ride while the roads continue to suck wind.

Mass Transit systems are much more Energy and Space Efficient and decrease Health problems caused by pollution. Their value to a well functioning City makes them worth it.


I am sure the buses running around Minneapolis with 3 people on them riding the side of the highways which errodes them faster, burning as much fuel as 30 cars is way more efficient than if those people were driving :disgust:

btw the funny part is if you look around the country and see these big mass transit systems you will note the cities are full of gridlock.
It is impossible for any mass transit system to serve everyone with equal convenience and some people just won't give up the car for one reason or another. It looks like the attempt in MN has soured you completely on the idea, which is unfortunate but it seems not to have been thought out very well in the first place. Chicago's mass transit system has been in place and expanding for over 100 years and is pretty well used. Given the city's central planning and geographical constraints it still makes sense here.

If you come on down here sometime I'd be more than happy to escort you on a rush hour tour of the city's train and bus transportation facilities. 😛

I have been to Chicago several times and actually like your train system. It actually got me hooked into the thinking that Mass Transit is the answer. But then I started doing a little research on it because in MN it is a hot topic and have come to the conclusion that it just doesnt stand on its own legs unless a city is landlocked like NY. The money spent on these systems could have easily been spent on upgrading the road infrastructures for the people who actually pay the taxes that fund the transit councils.

It is a difference of opinion I know. Trust me, I like your train system. But I just disagree with how it is funded and how it takes away from roads, which is what the majority of people use and pay for through gas taxes.

 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Genx87
Hey at least people are riding your mass transit. I have to ask, are the fares subsidized by gas taxes like they are in Minnesota? Or do the riders pay the full price of admission?

No mass transit system in the US (that I'm aware of) can operate on it's fares alone. The CTA is part of a regional transportation agency that also collects a sales tax to help fund operation (this includes a commuter rail system, buses, and the L/subways).

Nothing I love more than govt subsidies.

There are a few times I think they are justified and the RTA here qualifies IMO. I can only imagine the horror of all the METRA (commuter rail) and CTA customers taking to the roads. Though the agencys themselves need better oversight.

Imagine if all the billions were spent on expanding the road system 🙂

This is a common trap many people fall into. Believing if there isnt a train out there the roads go to hell and a handbasket. Then they spend way more for a train, the roads are still a mess and the transit dept is straddled with a money drain in the train because nobody wants to force the riders to actually pay their fair share. Because,well, obviously it will drive the riders away hehe. Pun intended of course 😀

Minneapolis is going through the same BS lying by the big govt types and business's who cash in on the govt contracts. They promised better congestion on hwy 55 along the Hiwatha line they spent a billion on. That never came true. They lowball the ridership to make it look like it is demanded more so they can justify spending billions more on a rail line from minneapolis to st paul. And instead of expanding our roads they want to put a train up the i-94 corridor that 12 people will ride while the roads continue to suck wind.

Mass Transit systems are much more Energy and Space Efficient and decrease Health problems caused by pollution. Their value to a well functioning City makes them worth it.


I am sure the buses running around Minneapolis with 3 people on them riding the side of the highways which errodes them faster, burning as much fuel as 30 cars is way more efficient than if those people were driving :disgust:

btw the funny part is if you look around the country and see these big mass transit systems you will note the cities are full of gridlock.

Every Bus has 3 passengers all the time?

Cities have gridlock because there are just so many people in a confined space, it has nothing to do with a lack of Roads or having Mass Transit.

Pretty close. There was a strike by the bus drivers about 10 years ago and nobody even noticed. They were on strike for about a month if memory serves me correctly.

A road is like a pipe, make it wide enough and it wont clog. So yes, I agree that more people confined to an area == gridlock. That is because the pipe wasnt built wide enough.

It will clog up on every Offramp/Onramp. Roads can not expand infinitely. The cost will also increase to ridiculous levels, Mass Transit is superior in just about every way.
 
New York City went thru a major rebuilding some years ago and it was very disruptive for a few years.
This type of problem arises when funding is done on a political basis and not on an as needed basis. Transit systems find it difficult to find funds due to tax cut, tax cut, tax cut which morons keep repeating and so repairs and major projects get pushed off till they are unavoidable. Then a huge appropriation is made and the whole transit line gets fixed at once.
If adequate, measured funding were in place than repairs, upgrades and expansion can be done in a less disruptive manner and for less money.
 
Transit authorities face a variety of obstacles when expanding capacity, funding being only part of it. There's a lot of NIMBY activity wrt new lines, so agencies are often stuck inproving existing right of ways, which is a lot more expensive and disruptive than building new in parallel....

We just finished a major highway/ lightrail expansion in Denver, where miles of I-25 were torn out, re-done- The transit authority was basically forced into the footprint of the highway by misguided neighborhood groups, raising the cost and extending the completion date considerably... I doubt it's much different in Chicago... I remember Elwood's rented room in the Blues Brothers, with the L right outside the window... although I have no idea whether that's realistic or not...
 
Back
Top