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Immortality, the human brain, data storage and the "I"

Doboji

Diamond Member
SO everyone wants to live forever, or at least I certainly do, but the concept of immortality raises some serious questions of population.... having children.... growing up... they have children... if noone dies we'll have way too many people.

But the real limitation here is physical existance. The real question si not necessarily how to preserve the human body as it is, but to provide for the survival of the "self". If I replace my arms and legs, and heart, and lungs with mechanical parts, I am still me... and for the most part this is an acceptable form of survival. How far can this physical replacement thing go. I would contend that the "I", is simply data with software accessing, and manipulating this data. That being the case, why is it impossible to create a medium capable of containing this software and data?

However this raises the question of the "I"... if we were to successfully migrate the self to a man made medium, what would be the downtime associated? and perhaps more importantly, what would be the ramifications of said downtime? Would we in fact die? Would the current contiguous self cease to exist, and another be "born" in its place? Or would our current "self" simply wake up in the new medium?

Once this is accomplished what would be the ramifications of say.... copying the data, and running the software elsewhere in parallel?

If we are not data... then what are we?

-Max
 
you are making a huge assumption: the fact that 1 nanosecond in the future you are the same person as you were 1 nanosecond ago.

we know this is infact false, your personality changes over the years as you gain new experiences, etc. how is this any different than if you were copied into a computer?

from nanosecond to nanosecond, is the real you still there? or does your old self vanish and a new one reborn as what would happen when you are copied into a computer?

food for thought.
 
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
you are making a huge assumption: the fact that 1 nanosecond in the future you are the same person as you were 1 nanosecond ago.

we know this is infact false, your personality changes over the years as you gain new experiences, etc. how is this any different than if you were copied into a computer?

from nanosecond to nanosecond, is the real you still there? or does your old self vanish and a new one reborn as what would happen when you are copied into a computer?

food for thought.


Thought about that... I believe that the self is contiguous... it is indeed everchanging... but the only perception that actually matters is the one from within. I percieve myself as being the same from one second to the next, this is the only perception necessary to preserve. To assume otherwise is to make all points irrelevant and the subject of life and death itself moot, as I will die in the nanosecond between the letters in this post anyway.

EDIT: Clarification... to accept the idea that the each self ceases to exist with every nano-second is a worthless assumption. Because then NOTHING matters at all

-Max
 
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
you are making a huge assumption: the fact that 1 nanosecond in the future you are the same person as you were 1 nanosecond ago.

we know this is infact false, your personality changes over the years as you gain new experiences, etc. how is this any different than if you were copied into a computer?

from nanosecond to nanosecond, is the real you still there? or does your old self vanish and a new one reborn as what would happen when you are copied into a computer?

food for thought.


Thought about that... I believe that the self is contiguous... it is indeed everchanging... but the only perception that actually matters is the one from within. I percieve myself as being the same from one second to the next, this is the only perception necessary to preserve. To assume otherwise is to make all points irrelevant and the subject of life and death itself moot, as I will die in the nanosecond between the letters in this post anyway.

-Max


so under those assumptions, i would contest that if you copy yourself to a computer and then upload yourself to a new host (clone maybe) it would be no different than time passing for you in your current host. the old you would die and the new you would be reborn, just as it happens right now from second to second.
 
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
you are making a huge assumption: the fact that 1 nanosecond in the future you are the same person as you were 1 nanosecond ago.

we know this is infact false, your personality changes over the years as you gain new experiences, etc. how is this any different than if you were copied into a computer?

from nanosecond to nanosecond, is the real you still there? or does your old self vanish and a new one reborn as what would happen when you are copied into a computer?

food for thought.


Thought about that... I believe that the self is contiguous... it is indeed everchanging... but the only perception that actually matters is the one from within. I percieve myself as being the same from one second to the next, this is the only perception necessary to preserve. To assume otherwise is to make all points irrelevant and the subject of life and death itself moot, as I will die in the nanosecond between the letters in this post anyway.

-Max


so under those assumptions, i would contest that if you copy yourself to a computer and then upload yourself to a new host (clone maybe) it would be no different than time passing for you in your current host. the old you would die and the new you would be reborn, just as it happens right now from second to second.


If time passing now is what you call "dying" than this death seems to be 100% acceptable from my perspective. That would certainly make the concept of medium transfer of the self... plausible...

-Max
 
This is assuming a mind can run of the same type of processors that are powering your computer. From all we know, the mind operates on a completely different principle than binary. Until we invent a "neural net" (read Asimov), I don't think there's any way a mind can actually exist as software run by a cpu.
 
Originally posted by: Connoisseur
This is assuming a mind can run of the same type of processors that are powering your computer. From all we know, the mind operates on a completely different principle than binary. Until we invent a "neural net" (read Asimov), I don't think there's any way a mind can actually exist as software run by a cpu.


Perhaps not.. perhaps it is 100% biological... however that still wouldn't prohibit the possibility of creating a biological device that operates on the same principles of the human brain and transfer the self that way.

Eitherway scientifically speaking we are lightyears away from understanding the medium that is the brain, or how data is accessed, and what "software" is running on it. However theoretically at least doesnt it seem possible?

-Max
 
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Connoisseur
This is assuming a mind can run of the same type of processors that are powering your computer. From all we know, the mind operates on a completely different principle than binary. Until we invent a "neural net" (read Asimov), I don't think there's any way a mind can actually exist as software run by a cpu.


Perhaps not.. perhaps it is 100% biological... however that still wouldn't prohibit the possibility of creating a biological device that operates on the same principles of the human brain and transfer the self that way.

Eitherway scientifically speaking we are lightyears away from understanding the medium that is the brain, or how data is accessed, and what "software" is running on it. However theoretically at least doesnt it seem possible?

-Max

Possibly...
However, if you have any religious intuitions and believe that each person has a eternal soul from conception which is the foundation of life, the transplanting of that soul might prove difficult, and copying/creating a new one might be altogether impossible.
 
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Connoisseur
This is assuming a mind can run of the same type of processors that are powering your computer. From all we know, the mind operates on a completely different principle than binary. Until we invent a "neural net" (read Asimov), I don't think there's any way a mind can actually exist as software run by a cpu.


Perhaps not.. perhaps it is 100% biological... however that still wouldn't prohibit the possibility of creating a biological device that operates on the same principles of the human brain and transfer the self that way.

Eitherway scientifically speaking we are lightyears away from understanding the medium that is the brain, or how data is accessed, and what "software" is running on it. However theoretically at least doesnt it seem possible?

-Max

Possibly...
However, if you have any religious intuitions and believe that each person has a eternal soul from conception which is the foundation of life, the transplanting of that soul might prove difficult, and copying/creating a new one might be altogether impossible.


If we are to accept religious ideas, then the argument is moot, as the human soul would then provide for immortality without the need for a self transfer of any kind.

Not to say that I don't accept religious possibility.... I'm on and off the fence myself....

-Max
 
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Connoisseur
This is assuming a mind can run of the same type of processors that are powering your computer. From all we know, the mind operates on a completely different principle than binary. Until we invent a "neural net" (read Asimov), I don't think there's any way a mind can actually exist as software run by a cpu.


Perhaps not.. perhaps it is 100% biological... however that still wouldn't prohibit the possibility of creating a biological device that operates on the same principles of the human brain and transfer the self that way.

Eitherway scientifically speaking we are lightyears away from understanding the medium that is the brain, or how data is accessed, and what "software" is running on it. However theoretically at least doesnt it seem possible?

-Max

Possibly...
However, if you have any religious intuitions and believe that each person has a eternal soul from conception which is the foundation of life, the transplanting of that soul might prove difficult, and copying/creating a new one might be altogether impossible.


If we are to accept religious ideas, then the argument is moot, as the human soul would then provide for immortality without the need for a self transfer of any kind.

Not to say that I don't accept religious possibility.... I'm on and off the fence myself....

-Max


I was under the impression you were looking for a physical immortality rather than a spiritual one.
 
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Connoisseur
This is assuming a mind can run of the same type of processors that are powering your computer. From all we know, the mind operates on a completely different principle than binary. Until we invent a "neural net" (read Asimov), I don't think there's any way a mind can actually exist as software run by a cpu.


Perhaps not.. perhaps it is 100% biological... however that still wouldn't prohibit the possibility of creating a biological device that operates on the same principles of the human brain and transfer the self that way.

Eitherway scientifically speaking we are lightyears away from understanding the medium that is the brain, or how data is accessed, and what "software" is running on it. However theoretically at least doesnt it seem possible?

-Max

Possibly...
However, if you have any religious intuitions and believe that each person has a eternal soul from conception which is the foundation of life, the transplanting of that soul might prove difficult, and copying/creating a new one might be altogether impossible.


If we are to accept religious ideas, then the argument is moot, as the human soul would then provide for immortality without the need for a self transfer of any kind.

Not to say that I don't accept religious possibility.... I'm on and off the fence myself....

-Max


I was under the impression you were looking for a physical immortality rather than a spiritual one.


Looking for immortality in any form... ceasing to exist is an unacceptable option.
 
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