Immigration Reform: National ID card

[3chordcharlie]

Companies train employees to make them more efficient at their jobs and to shield the company from liability.

Liability? What's that?

Don't worry, efficiency isn't worth much when you pay starvation wages, and liability is best settled privately between the few hundred men of business who all know each other anyway. Since a worker is apparently only worth about $5k a year, it's hard to imagine any 'liability' WRT a worker amounting to more than pocket-change.

 

[Bitek]

I can only assume you dont live in a town infested with illegals. They are here for much more than just lawn mowing.
BUT, I dont see a national ID card system helping anyone. The reason illegals are able to stay here at all is because they work for cash or checks that get turned into cash immediately. The ID system cant solve the real problem with is illegal aliens running around unchecked.
I dont like the idea of honest Americans being punished while illegals get a free ride. I'm sick of them right now, and not only does Obama want to let them stay and have them be legals, (for the easy votes I assume) but he wants to butt fuck the citizen tax payers on top of it.

Fuck that shit.

Please, there isn't many areas that haven't seen high Mex immigration (and I've seen it), but I don't see them as roaches that need to be gassed either. I don't mind some controlled and limited mex immigration.

Imm can be greatly reduced by enforcing exsisting laws, like cracking down on the big Mex employers, like slaughterhouses and other shit jobs Americans don't want. You don't even have to nail every little small business, but put the fear of God into those hiring them (big businesses for big visibility) and many others won't want to take the risk. Raid some construction sites too.

 

[CycloWizard]

Calling me an idiot isn't going to help you much; I've certainly been called worse by folks who were less wrong than you are.

Minimum wage is already so low that it is irrelevant. Increase it to represent a meaningful portion of GDP/worker, and it will be worth talking about why it is a bad policy. Come up to Ontario where we are about to have $10/hr minimum wage imposed at a time of high unemployment, and then we can talk about a meaningful problem with minimum wage.

As it is, complaining about minimum wage is simply asking to legitimize a true serf/slave economy. It's nearly impossible to imagine a productive job that wouldn't be worth your $4-5 minimum wage; the problem isn't a gap between wage offered and wage allowed, it's an actual lack of jobs.

So the person making $0 per hour scratching his ass on the couch can't have a job because an armchair politician like you wants to keep the minimum wage. You have set an arbitrary cutoff below which he is not allowed to earn an income. If no one will hire him at a wage at or above your arbitrary cutoff, he gets nothing. But you're right - I doubt he cares, as this isn't a meaningful problem to you.

 

[CycloWizard]

Liability? What's that?

Don't worry, efficiency isn't worth much when you pay starvation wages, and liability is best settled privately between the few hundred men of business who all know each other anyway. Since a worker is apparently only worth about $5k a year, it's hard to imagine any 'liability' WRT a worker amounting to more than pocket-change.

This is why I called you an idiot. You think that $5/hour is a "starvation wage," but $0/hour is not. I never read a single study about how minimum wage might affect unemployment, but thought that it was common sense. Looks like there is plenty of evidence to support my common sense:
http://www.house.gov/jec/cost-gov/regs/minimum/50years.htm
I can eat on $200/week. How much bread will $0/week buy me? I doubt it's much more in Canada than it is in the US.

 

[Zebo]

Your SS card is your national ID. That the Feds won't do insta checks for duplicate and fraudulent numbers is the issue. This legislation is window dressing to fool people into thinking they are doing something about immigration problem. It's like making blue haired old white women take off her shoes at airport to combat hijackers.

 

[Modelworks]

The easiest way to solve the immigration issue is to jail anyone hiring them. The way it works right now here in NC is farmers can hire illegals and if caught pay a fine of $250. Hire an illegal and risk a fine or hire a legal resident and have to pay them more than the fine will ever cost ? They pick up the illegals in the morning, pay them cash and there is no records. I have even seen police walking by the illegals while they wait to be picked up for work like it is no big deal. Change it to mandatory jail sentence for anyone renting to or hiring an illegal and things will change, no national id needed.

 

[CycloWizard]

Companies train employees to make them more efficient at their jobs and to shield the company from liability.

So how did companies get by without the minimum wage before 1938 when it was first enacted in the US? Can you find a single company that is asking for a continuation of a minimum wage policy?

 

[Zebo]

Even easier ^^^ Congress doesnt like easy they want, and more importantly their donors like Chamber of Commerce, etc want illegal labor but they don't want you to know that.

I've never hired an illegal. Or even 1099 people. Always play by the rules as I don't like looking over my shoulder. But I know many who do and would love these cheaters thrown in jail.

The cost and time of the paperwork they don't have to deal with puts them at a competitive advantage, and people who play by rules at a disadvantage. Then they are stealing from you, as a tax payer. Taxes must be raised or services cut that you paid for because they are not participating.

 

[3chordcharlie]

This is why I called you an idiot. You think that $5/hour is a "starvation wage," but $0/hour is not. I never read a single study about how minimum wage might affect unemployment, but thought that it was common sense. Looks like there is plenty of evidence to support my common sense:
http://www.house.gov/jec/cost-gov/regs/minimum/50years.htm
I can eat on $200/week. How much bread will $0/week buy me? I doubt it's much more in Canada than it is in the US.

You really don't get it - and I said $5k, not $5/hr.

You can't live on FT $2.50/hr. Can't be done. In many places, you could in fact survive on $5/hr. Barely.

The unemployed are not unemployed because of minimum wage, they are unemployed because even at 'dirt cheap' no one wants to hire more workers. And definitely no one wants the quality of worker that is actually worth $2.50/hr.

You're concentrating on the case of a single individual, and I get that - yes, if you have a choice to make $80-100 this week, or not, and you need to eat, then you are better off taking the job. But after three weeks like that, when the rent is due, you'll be just as far ahead not bothering to work, because you don't stand a chance.

Get your head out of your ass and realize that minimum wage, at the levels you have, is meaningless in terms of unemployment, inflation, etc. Eliminating it won't make any difference, because you will not create a functioning sub-today's-minimum-wage labour market. So you're busy arguing about something that doesn't have any meaning.

 

[her209]

So how did companies get by without the minimum wage before 1938 when it was first enacted in the US? Can you find a single company that is asking for a continuation of a minimum wage policy?

The workplace and laws regarding the workplace has also changed since 1938. Should we undo all that too?

 

[nobodyknows]

You realize, dont you, that a citizen can get the same job, for the same wage, an illegal can. Right? So the question is, why arent they? If an illegal can walk up to a farm owner and offer to work for, say, $6/hour off the books, why cant a citizen?

Oh look at the tightie rightie supply sider rationalizing increasing the labor force to drive labor prices down.

I'll ask you again, are we a nation of laws or not? So you think it's OK to just ignore the laws we find inconvienent?

 

[nobodyknows]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that $1 per hour is still more than $0 per hour. If a company can afford to hire someone at $2.50 per hour but not $7.50 (or whatever minimum wage is now), then the person that could have been hired will now be earning nothing and the spot he would have filled will not produce anything of value. Race that to the bottom.

Is it better to die a slow death or a fast one?

 

[nobodyknows]

well to be fair, most mexicans are predominantly native-american ancestry [aztecs] so they are simply moving to another part of thier homeland. And much of the sw was chicano before whitey decided to move in and deem brown people as 'others' who should live 'over there' [across the border].

lol@u

 

[DesiPower]

"Tamper Proof" national ID card is a great idea!! We really need another counterfit industry to keep counterfiters employed.

 

[CycloWizard]

You really don't get it - and I said $5k, not $5/hr.

You can't live on FT $2.50/hr. Can't be done. In many places, you could in fact survive on $5/hr. Barely.

The unemployed are not unemployed because of minimum wage, they are unemployed because even at 'dirt cheap' no one wants to hire more workers. And definitely no one wants the quality of worker that is actually worth $2.50/hr.

You're concentrating on the case of a single individual, and I get that - yes, if you have a choice to make $80-100 this week, or not, and you need to eat, then you are better off taking the job. But after three weeks like that, when the rent is due, you'll be just as far ahead not bothering to work, because you don't stand a chance.

Get your head out of your ass and realize that minimum wage, at the levels you have, is meaningless in terms of unemployment, inflation, etc. Eliminating it won't make any difference, because you will not create a functioning sub-today's-minimum-wage labour market. So you're busy arguing about something that doesn't have any meaning.

A second grader can prove that you're wrong mathematically, yet you stick to your guns. I never would have guessed that you were so invested in ideology that you would actually fight to the death against common sense and logic simply to uphold one of the most idiotic ideals of your party. Kinda sad, really. I guess it all comes together now: you would rather take my money and give it to someone who is not working at all than have them work 40 hours a week and make at least a fraction of the money themselves. That way, you get the credit for hoisting them out of their misery, right? What other explanation can you offer for suggesting that someone is better off making $0 a week than $100?

 

[DesiPower]

The easiest way to solve the immigration issue is to jail anyone hiring them. The way it works right now here in NC is farmers can hire illegals and if caught pay a fine of $250. Hire an illegal and risk a fine or hire a legal resident and have to pay them more than the fine will ever cost ? They pick up the illegals in the morning, pay them cash and there is no records. I have even seen police walking by the illegals while they wait to be picked up for work like it is no big deal. Change it to mandatory jail sentence for anyone renting to or hiring an illegal and things will change, no national id needed.

This, not only employers but also proponents of sanctuary cities.

 

[CycloWizard]

The workplace and laws regarding the workplace has also changed since 1938. Should we undo all that too?

Most of it. If you are actually concerned about efficiency and the like, and you've dealt with OSHA and similar government organizations that are designed to impede efficiency, then you would agree with me. The government's one-size-fits-all approach to everything does more harm than good in almost every case. Legal liability for safety issues does not disappear simply because some government organization which enshrines arbitrary guidelines ceases to exist. But then, all of those sweet government jobs would dry up and these people would have to get real jobs in a competitive industry contributing to society, and we can't have that, can we?

 

[DesiPower]

A second grader can prove that you're wrong mathematically, yet you stick to your guns. I never would have guessed that you were so invested in ideology that you would actually fight to the death against common sense and logic simply to uphold one of the most idiotic ideals of your party. Kinda sad, really. I guess it all comes together now: you would rather take my money and give it to someone who is not working at all than have them work 40 hours a week and make at least a fraction of the money themselves. That way, you get the credit for hoisting them out of their misery, right? What other explanation can you offer for suggesting that someone is better off making $0 a week than $100?

Yo, educated genius! it does not matter if he makes 0 or 100 or even 200 a week he still gets same amount of free food, home and now medical to stay alive vote every 4 years.

 

[nobodyknows]

A second grader can prove that you're wrong mathematically, yet you stick to your guns. I never would have guessed that you were so invested in ideology that you would actually fight to the death against common sense and logic simply to uphold one of the most idiotic ideals of your party. Kinda sad, really. I guess it all comes together now: you would rather take my money and give it to someone who is not working at all than have them work 40 hours a week and make at least a fraction of the money themselves. That way, you get the credit for hoisting them out of their misery, right? What other explanation can you offer for suggesting that someone is better off making $0 a week than $100?

Still a psycho after all these years I see.