Imgtech PowerVR SGX545 vs. nVidia Tegra2

[Nemesis 1]

Stop with the Fud man. Intel already is going into smartphones. With 45nm moorestown. Read ATs article. Medfield @32nm will be out around same time we see bulk 28nm. Intel will also be using Imagination GPus on medfield What goes on the smart phones from imagination will be formidable at 32nm. Than there are the handhelds and the netbooks. What intel uses here again unknown maybe 5xt @ 32nm or possiable intels own design of imagination tech they license. But to say TegraII is on top all alone is a joke. Just click on AT at top of this page it will take you home were you can brush up . If it scales up to 8 cores what will imagination call that core Maybe 5xt series. LOL. So now you say i3 IGP are a joke . No one is really laughing. and that is imagination licensed tech .

 

[Nemesis 1]

Here is the link for you . I don't want ya to get lost on the big page.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3716

If your going to debate me you best come prepared or get spanked hard.

And stop spreading FUD.

 

[Fox5]

Nemesis:
In the mobile phone market, die size is king. The cpu core in medfield is as large as the entire system on a chip that is Tegra 2, which is already massive for a phone. Medfield is not a system on a chip, it requires multiple chips (2 or 3) to make a complete phone.
Sorry, but Intel is still a generation or two away from competing with real phones. Medfield will be in phones, big phones.

 

[Nemesis 1]

So moorestown isn't SoC and is at 45nm and is going into smartphones as we speak . Yet you deny that Medfield @ 32nm is a SoC and to large to go into a Smartphone.

Heres what I suggest you do . Email Ananda and tell him he is mistaken about moorestown . OK . Also tell him those pics he took of 2 smartphones using moorestown are fakes and how shameful he is for spreading such lies

 

[Fox5]

So moorestown isn't SoC and is at 45nm and is going into smartphones as we speak . Yet you deny that Medfield @ 32nm is a SoC and to large to go into a Smartphone.

Heres what I suggest you do . Email Ananda and tell him he is mistaken about moorestown . OK . Also tell him those pics he took of 2 smartphones using moorestown are fakes and how shameful he is for spreading such lies

Just because a device with a 7" screen can make phone calls does not make it a phone. No more so than a netbook that makes phone calls.

If it can't fit in a pocket, and run at least through the business day without needing a recharge, it's not worth discussing.

Edit:

Medfield looks like it might be small enough to make it into some phones (larger, high end ones), but I still think it'll lose the power efficiency battle. The Cortex A9 will offer performance on par with Intel's Atom, and Intel is too focused on cutting power consumption of Atom to boost its performance.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10243640-64.html

He also offered some updates for Moorestown, the chip that will precede Medfield. "Last year I said we're going to do better then 10X on platform idle power (reduction over the current Menlow technology) on Moorestown. Today, I'm telling you, for the first time outside the walls of Intel, we're going to do 50X better on idle power," he said. The idle power will be 20 milliwatts at the "platform level"--which refers to the idle power (or standby mode) of the actual device, such as a smartphone, not the just chip, according to Chandrasekher.

20 milliwatts is what current generation phones do for standby, the generation coming out (and what tegra already does) will operate most of their functionality at 20 milliwatts, and standby will be in the single digits.
Medfield may make it into some phones, but it'll take one more generation before Intel has a good alternative for anyone other than those looking to run Windows 7 on their phone. 2 more generations and Intel may even beat the competition, sometime around 2013-2015.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Just because a device with a 7" screen can make phone calls does not make it a phone. No more so than a netbook that makes phone calls.

If it can't fit in a pocket, and run at least through the business day without needing a recharge, it's not worth discussing.

There were two smartphones in that article . At least you found one . Good for you a step in the right direction . So much Fud from you. Its not possiable for you to get under my skin. So stop tring

 

[Nemesis 1]

How is it that you know the power usage. It hasn't been reported.Now Lick your wounds and go get picks of tegra II in a smartphone.

 

[Fox5]

How is it that you know the power usage. It hasn't been reported.Now Lick your wounds and go get picks of tegra II in a smartphone.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10243640-64.html

He also offered some updates for Moorestown, the chip that will precede Medfield. "Last year I said we're going to do better then 10X on platform idle power (reduction over the current Menlow technology) on Moorestown. Today, I'm telling you, for the first time outside the walls of Intel, we're going to do 50X better on idle power," he said. The idle power will be 20 milliwatts at the "platform level"--which refers to the idle power (or standby mode) of the actual device, such as a smartphone, not the just chip, according to Chandrasekher.

Intel's platform next year has the power consumption of what last years ARM tech did. This year's ARM tech will operate most of their functionality at 20 milliwatts, and standby will be in the single digits.
Thankfully for Intel, ARM moves slow. Next year's ARM won't be any better, and quite possibly the year after that may also not show any improvement. If intel can bring out a new generation every year, they can match ARM in 2 or 3, and surpass them in 3 or 4.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Thats your proof . Look . Moorestown is already going into smartphones . Can't be denied , You said Medfield wouldn't go into anything with less than 5" screen . Yet Moorestown at 45nm has already done that . Than you talk about and post to an old outdated article. Ignoring the links already provided to you . It seems all your doing is tring to save face after the beating you have recieved . It would also seem you have resorted to trolling . I still waiting on Pics of tegra II in a smartphone

 

[Nemesis 1]

Fox5 you also forgot what this Topic was about .So you mistakenly invoked Cortex 9 cores as a defense . So sad. The VR 545 uses dual cortex 9 cores . So its really looking bad for your side of this debate. You have completely defeated yourself in all manner . I sugjest you brush up on your debating skills , Befor playing with Fire.

 

[Fox5]

Fox5 you also forgot what this Topic was about .So you mistakenly invoked Cortex 9 cores as a defense . So sad. The VR 545 uses dual cortex 9 cores . So its really looking bad for your side of this debate. You have completely defeated yourself in all manner . I sugjest you brush up on your debating skills , Befor playing with Fire.

You are quite the fire, aren't you?

This argument started about the badassness of the powervr sgx graphics, and transitioned to the viability of atom in smart phones.

The name of the graphics core is SGX545. It can be paired with any processor a company so chooses, which will most likely be Cortex A9.
Cortex A9 has nothing to do with graphics. In terms of raw power, Tegra 2's gpu will beat SGX545, but it's not aimed at the same market.

Cortex A9 and SGX545 will have fantastic power efficiency, and good cpu performance. They will be sized/priced right to go into most smart phones.

Tegra 2 (with its Cortex A9s) will also have fantastic power effiency, good cpu performance, and desktop level gpu performance. It will also be much more expensive. The extra cost/size will keep it out of most phones.

Medfield will be even bigger than Tegra 2. It may be reasonably priced due to intel's manufacturing advantage. It will not have a major cpu performance advantage. It will do much worse in power consumption, as there is a large penalty to pay for making a competitive x86 part in a market it wasn't designed for. Graphics performance will be inferior to tegra 2, and if Intel treats the drivers the same way they treated the PowerVR tech in the GMA500, it will have massively inferior performance. It will however be competing for the same markets as Tegra 2.

Medfield +1 or +2 will be much more interesting products, if Intel can lower power consumption to match the competition.

But you know what, I take back everything I've said in this thread. You win, and let's be done with this.

Edit: I need to make a specific correction.
Tegra 1 was rather large and expensive.
Tegra 2 is comparable in size to the TI OMAP cores it will be competing against. Or at least one specific Tegra 2 chip is, the Tegra 1 had multiple SKUs, the Tegra 2 probably will too.

 

[evolucion8]

Why Nemesis1 you have to post in multi lines, filling the whole threads with your fragmented posts? Are you trying to accomplish something? Like Lifer status or something? Is a bit annoying, specially that your primary language isn't english, just like me.

Right now I think that Intel solution isn't adequate for smaller phones, Arm still leading the way in power consumption and performance. Considering that newer Arm solutions performs as fast as Atom and consumes only a fraction of the Atom's power consumption, is even more performance than needed for a mobile device.

 

[Nemesis 1]

My primary laquagued is englist and its can get much worse. You also failed to understand that we have nothing from either company to compare . You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine . But failing to read the linked data than making false statements is not exceptable to me or anyone else . I say imagination has products = to or > than tegra II in the same power envelop. At this time that is an opinion only . But when facts are presented and those facts are denied . Its no longer a opinion.

When we have working products from both camps than and only than do we have real world facts.

 

[igloo15]

Nemesis either you are like 10 years old or your primary language is not english. That said Nemesis you seem to have some kinda of agenda and refuse to consider other people's thoughts.

This thread has derailed considerably since the start in my opinion.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Your entitled to your opinion . But your above statements tell what sort you are . This thread has not been derailed as the moorestown and medfield will all use Imagination tech . Moorestown infact has been shown with Imagination teck on a smartphone to be released this year . Were as no one has shown A tergra II based smartphone . If you which to contribute attack the message and not the messenger. But If you start fudding all over the place I will call you on it. I have supplied links as to support my opinion . Any one can have thoughts but try to base them on KNOWN facts .

 

[argor]

@Nemesis 1 and Fox5
both of your arguments have many flaws
and i don't have time rite now to take them on
@ Fox5 don't take mark on nvidia numbers they are far lower
the gpu in the tegra 2 is the same as in tegra 1 only clock higher 120 vs 240
the tegra gpu is like this 2PS/2VS/2TMUs@240MHz,
as for powervr/imtec it is surprising the only grafix company that posted real numbers that can easy be attained in game
as for powervr SGX vs tegra gpu
there is no comparison heck even the tegra gpu is not even unified
over all powervr SGX is more power efficient and in performance and capabilities
you could squeeze easily a 2MP SGX543 into that die area of the tegra gpu with a more modest frequency than 240MHz and still have a healthy lead in performance and capabilities overall.

and for those that like to read http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=56059 ()

 

[Fox5]

@Nemesis 1 and Fox5
both of your arguments have many flaws
and i don't have time rite now to take them on
@ Fox5 don't take mark on nvidia numbers they are far lower
the gpu in the tegra 2 is the same as in tegra 1 only clock higher 120 vs 240
the tegra gpu is like this 2PS/2VS/2TMUs@240MHz,
as for powervr/imtec it is surprising the only grafix company that posted real numbers that can easy be attained in game
as for powervr SGX vs tegra gpu
there is no comparison heck even the tegra gpu is not even unified
over all powervr SGX is more power efficient and in performance and capabilities
you could squeeze easily a 2MP SGX543 into that die area of the tegra gpu with a more modest frequency than 240MHz and still have a healthy lead in performance and capabilities overall.

and for those that like to read http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=56059 ()

The Tegra 2 gpu is the same as tegra 1? There's not much information out on it yet, but quotes from nvidia claim 4x the performance (unless they're referring only to cpu performance) and hint at a geforce 8 basis.
Then again, given how much smaller tegra 2 is compared to tegra 1, it's hard to believe they could fit in an 8 series gpu. (and I just noticed anandtech confirmed it's the same gpu as tegra 1, but faster)

Not to mention nvidia claims the most impressive power consumption statistics for tegra (but no one has verified it), and they seem to have the most impressive gpu demos for both tegra 1 and 2. The quake 3 demos available for SGX530 and tegra seem to put them at the same performance level (for an opengl es 1.1 game), and tegra 2 seems to have had a slightly more impressive unreal 3 demo than the iphone 3gs did.

I will read that beyond3d thread though.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Argor I read your link . It seems rather a mis. I am assuming(Ya I know) your Ailuros. I agree with whats in that link in so far as whats known. Still the 545 wasn't talked about that much and I understand that . I all so agree if it wasn't for the Nividia name 9 out of ten wouldn't even look in Terga II direction . Your in the industry were as I just research tech and were its heading for investment reasons. Ya I know you could drive a Mack truck threw the holes in my argument. But I can see I believe who has the Better tech and that would be powervr SGX . So until we see real world results NV marketeers will spread there hype . Which infact means nothing to you as your on the inside looking out. Were as it does matter to me as I don't need hype ruining investments as these marketers do .

 

[IntelUser2000]

The Tegra 2 gpu is the same as tegra 1? There's not much information out on it yet, but quotes from nvidia claim 4x the performance (unless they're referring only to cpu performance) and hint at a geforce 8 basis.
Then again, given how much smaller tegra 2 is compared to tegra 1, it's hard to believe they could fit in an 8 series gpu. (and I just noticed anandtech confirmed it's the same gpu as tegra 1, but faster)

Actually take a look at the video about the Unreal 3 engine being demonstrated for Tegra 2. Comparing with similar PC pics on Youtube, the Tegra version looks more like Unreal 1 than Unreal 3.

Then there's the factor of transistor count.

Clarkdale's IGP on 45nm has 170 million transistors and 114mm2 die. The Geforce 9400m IGP has ~282 million transistors. What's the rumored die size for Tegra 2?? It's like 49mm2 on the 40nm.

Ultra low power devices might pull theoretical numbers well, but full-blown GPUs actually take advantage of that theoretical power into real use.

Apple claims iPhone 3GS can do 5 hours 3G web browsing on its 4.51WHr battery. Ars Technica is saying LG GW990 demonstrated at CES will get 5 hours on the 1850mAh, likely 6.8WHr with a bigger screen. 50% difference is still big, but considering how far they were with Menlow, they are catching up fast.

And their graphics drivers are improving very fast. On AVSForum, where they have HTPC maniacs, it looks like Clarkdale has even better HD support than Radeon HD5000.

 

[Arkaign]

I read this thread and now I have a migraine. Nemesis is an interesting character, but his posts are often damned difficult to make sense out of. It's like a stream of consciousness posting with really random punctuation and word order.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Ya you got me there. Funny your the first person to accurately describe whats going on . Everthing is moving so fast in my mind My fingers can't keep up. Its an accurse I have , If I slow down than I do just fine.

 

[Fox5]

Ya you got me there. Funny your the first person to accurately describe whats going on . Everthing is moving so fast in my mind My fingers can't keep up. Its an accurse I have , If I slow down than I do just fine.

Who's the little boy in your icon picture?

 

[evolucion8]

Ya you got me there. Funny your the first person to accurately describe whats going on . Everthing is moving so fast in my mind My fingers can't keep up. Its an accurse I have , If I slow down than I do just fine.

Then you are body bottlenecked aka System BUS bottleneck loll, I'm I/O bottlenecked because my mouth can't keep up with my mind.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Who's the little boy in your icon picture?

He is my grandson he is playing on PC next to me right Now He loves PCs

He is also very very intelligent. Most can't believe it . But he has had excellant teacher.

 

[Arkaign]

He is my grandson he is playing on PC next to me right Now He loves PCs

He is also very very intelligent. Most can't believe it . But he has had excellant teacher.

Well that's awesome that you get to spend quality times with the grandkid(s).

Cheers!