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IMF Chief Economist apologizes for not recognizing how much damage austerity...

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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,479
428
126
Obviously the IMF apology is just a Socio-Facist-Islamo-Commie plot to threaten good God-Fearing Mericans....
 
Nov 30, 2006
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You think that the government debt of say... The UK is what has made their economic growth so weak starting in 2010?

What economics are you basing this on?
UK's spending was approaching 50% of GDP at that time. Some say that's when you should start being concerned....some say earlier. What do you think?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,670
21,851
136
UK's spending was approaching 50% of GDP at that time. Some say that's when you should start being concerned....some say earlier. What do you think?
What does that have to do with debt?

FYI, the UK's growth flatlined when they cut back government spending starting in late 2010. If excessive government spending was the problem it's hard to see why reducing it would make things worse.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,196
3,242
126
Austerity is failing at this time because too many people are addressing the issue from an Ideological position rather than a Prudent one. The timing for this Austerity is not quite the worst(2008/9 would be worse), but it's not far from it. As has repeated ad nauseum from when all this has began, you Stimulate until the Private Sector has recovered, then you address Government Spending.

This ain't rocket science.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,670
21,851
136
Austerity is failing at this time because too many people are addressing the issue from an Ideological position rather than a Prudent one. The timing for this Austerity is not quite the worst(2008/9 would be worse), but it's not far from it. As has repeated ad nauseum from when all this has began, you Stimulate until the Private Sector has recovered, then you address Government Spending.

This ain't rocket science.
As has been suggested in many places, it seems like people are treating this as some sort of morality play. Countries have behaved badly in their opinion, therefore the way to set it right is by their citizens feeling economic pain. We must be punished to atone for our sins.

It's just unfortunate that there really isn't any evidence to say that such a thing is the case.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,196
3,242
126
As has been suggested in many places, it seems like people are treating this as some sort of morality play. Countries have behaved badly in their opinion, therefore the way to set it right is by their citizens feeling economic pain. We must be punished to atone for our sins.

It's just unfortunate that there really isn't any evidence to say that such a thing is the case.
Indeed. One of the worst consequences of Religious Thinking IMO, although it is more accurately Superstitious Thinking.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
The private sector will not recover. Our economy is broken, propped up by one bubble after another. Austerity will come whether you like it or not. Put it off if you want, but the pain will be felt.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,561
8
0
The private sector will not recover. Our economy is broken, propped up by one bubble after another. Austerity will come whether you like it or not. Put it off if you want, but the pain will be felt.
I work in two industries that are recovering fairly well. Automotive is robust in most markets and new car sales are good this year. Construction is finally rebounding in some markets very well as well.


I agree with your assessment that pain will be felt. Pulling a scab off usually hurts but gets better over time. The broken pieces of our economy were caused by our own hands. They will get fixed by our own hands as well.



I created six new jobs this year. My insurance agent noted she has been busier then ever this year with the influx of new businesses in the area. I see a ton of gloom and doom on the Internets. I see alot of growth and expansion in real life.


This fatalistic attitude that nothing can get fixed is a phony narrative. Its also pretty damn worthless. Feel powerless if you want. Some of us choose to be empowered.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,196
3,242
126
I work in two industries that are recovering fairly well. Automotive is robust in most markets and new car sales are good this year. Construction is finally rebounding in some markets very well as well.


I agree with your assessment that pain will be felt. Pulling a scab off usually hurts but gets better over time. The broken pieces of our economy were caused by our own hands. They will get fixed by our own hands as well.



I created six new jobs this year. My insurance agent noted she has been busier then ever this year with the influx of new businesses in the area. I see a ton of gloom and doom on the Internets. I see alot of growth and expansion in real life.


This fatalistic attitude that nothing can get fixed is a phony narrative. Its also pretty damn worthless. Feel powerless if you want. Some of us choose to be empowered.
Indeed.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,266
486
126
I work in two industries that are recovering fairly well. Automotive is robust in most markets and new car sales are good this year. Construction is finally rebounding in some markets very well as well.


I agree with your assessment that pain will be felt. Pulling a scab off usually hurts but gets better over time. The broken pieces of our economy were caused by our own hands. They will get fixed by our own hands as well.



I created six new jobs this year. My insurance agent noted she has been busier then ever this year with the influx of new businesses in the area. I see a ton of gloom and doom on the Internets. I see alot of growth and expansion in real life.


This fatalistic attitude that nothing can get fixed is a phony narrative. Its also pretty damn worthless. Feel powerless if you want. Some of us choose to be empowered.
Sounds like you took personal responsibility, you didn't sit back and blame others or used it as an excuse not to try, worked hard and are enjoying the fruits of your labor,

be careful you might be accused of being republican, rich, or someone with special connections (white and privileged) that is gaming the system.:D
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
126
You said government spending comprises 40% of GDP output. All but about $1T of that is already funded through tax dollars, ie: it is already accounted for when you take into account what percentage of GDP each sector has.

So basically what's happening here is that in a totally private world private sector GDP would be 100% of GDP. In our world we tax that to make it into public sector GDP. Add in borrowing and you get 40%. Leaving the private sector with 60%. You're trying to count the 40% against the 60% a second time when you say that government would consume 2/3rds of the private economy.
Ah, my bad. However, our government borrowing is far more than $1T; that's our federal government alone. States and local governments also borrow, either directly or by issuing bonds.
 

iaco

Junior Member
Oct 6, 2012
20
0
0
Can't believe I'm posting here, but here it goes.

IMF was wrong? News at 11.

If the IMF tells your country to do something, you should stick fingers and say LALALALALA and pretend you never heard anything.

If you have not taken University level macroecon class, you should STFU. Austerity was a terrible idea as anyone who has taken such a course would tell you. It directly cuts GDP.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
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Can't believe I'm posting here, but here it goes.

IMF was wrong? News at 11.

If the IMF tells your country to do something, you should stick fingers and say LALALALALA and pretend you never heard anything.

If you have not taken University level macroecon class, you should STFU. Austerity was a terrible idea as anyone who has taken such a course would tell you. It directly cuts GDP.
BS, Austerity is what is needed to fix the economy, the only one that should STFU is you and your stimulus supporters
 

iaco

Junior Member
Oct 6, 2012
20
0
0
BS, Austerity is what is needed to fix the economy, the only one that should STFU is you and your stimulus supporters
Lol, so I suppose you have taken a macroecon course in college?

I used to think a degree was pretty worthless, but I guess it's not as worthless as I thought.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,846
48
91
People have confused austerity with productivity. If an economy is in a crises, then the general plan should be to cut inefficiency and therefore productivity of the citizens of that economy. You can achieve an increase in productivity in multiple ways. Cutting expenditure is just one part of it.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Austerity is failing at this time because too many people are addressing the issue from an Ideological position rather than a Prudent one. The timing for this Austerity is not quite the worst(2008/9 would be worse), but it's not far from it. As has repeated ad nauseum from when all this has began, you Stimulate until the Private Sector has recovered, then you address Government Spending.

This ain't rocket science.
Yes lets double down on the same failed policies.

Secret and Lies of the Bailout

By Matt Taibbi
January 4, 2013 4:25 PM ET

It has been four long winters since the federal government, in the hulking, shaven-skulled, Alien Nation-esque form of then-Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, committed $700 billion in taxpayer money to rescue Wall Street from its own chicanery and greed. To listen to the bankers and their allies in Washington tell it, you'd think the bailout was the best thing to hit the American economy since the invention of the assembly line. Not only did it prevent another Great Depression, we've been told, but the money has all been paid back, and the government even made a profit. No harm, no foul – right?

Wrong.

It was all a lie – one of the biggest and most elaborate falsehoods ever sold to the American people. We were told that the taxpayer was stepping in – only temporarily, mind you – to prop up the economy and save the world from financial catastrophe. What we actually ended up doing was the exact opposite: committing American taxpayers to permanent, blind support of an ungovernable, unregulatable, hyperconcentrated new financial system that exacerbates the greed and inequality that caused the crash, and forces Wall Street banks like Goldman Sachs and Citigroup to increase risk rather than reduce it. The result is one of those deals where one wrong decision early on blossoms into a lush nightmare of unintended consequences. We thought we were just letting a friend crash at the house for a few days; we ended up with a family of hillbillies who moved in forever, sleeping nine to a bed and building a meth lab on the front lawn....
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/secret-and-lies-of-the-bailout-20130104#ixzz2HFzlvTap

What could possibly go wrong right? LOL

Regulators ease key bank rule to spur credit

By Huw Jones

BASEL, Switzerland/LONDON (Reuters) - Global regulators gave banks four more years and greater flexibility on Sunday to build up cash buffers so they can use some of their reserves to help struggling economies grow. The pull-back from a draconian earlier draft of new global bank liquidity rule to help prevent another financial crisis went further than banks had expected by allowing them a broader range of eligible assets.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/regulators-ease-key-bank-rule-205126189.html
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,196
3,242
126

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Before you can "Double-down" the Stimulus, you first have to start a proper Stimulus.
Keep on believe that a "proper stimulus" will cover over our structural issues.

Each time that line of bullshit is exposed for what it is (complete bullshit to justify ignoring our debt woes) you guys keep redrawing the goal posts, "This time guys if we only double down on our last efforts we'll finally get lasting positive results people!!" just like gambler who just lost his shirt at a Vegas casino.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,196
3,242
126
Keep on believe that a "proper stimulus" will cover over our structural issues.

Each time that line of bullshit is exposed for what it is (complete bullshit to justify ignoring our debt woes) you guys keep redrawing the goal posts, "This time guys if we only double down on our last efforts we'll finally get lasting positive results people!!" just like gambler who just lost his shirt at a Vegas casino.
It has been "exposed"? Interesting.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Keep on believe that a "proper stimulus" will cover over our structural issues.

Each time that line of bullshit is exposed for what it is (complete bullshit to justify ignoring our debt woes) you guys keep redrawing the goal posts, "This time guys if we only double down on our last efforts we'll finally get lasting positive results people!!" just like gambler who just lost his shirt at a Vegas casino.
Cut spending and the economy tanks.

Keep spending and it tanks

Either way it tanks
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Cut spending and the economy tanks.

Keep spending and it tanks

Either way it tanks
More like.....

- Keep spending going, keep devaluing our currency, keep discouraging savings, etc and it tanks no matter what and thus government spending will have to be cut regardless in the face of higher rates of inflation and in the midst of potential social and political unrest.

- Cut spending now, regain the value lost to our currency, and thus increase the consumers purchasing power and balance government's spending in the future and acknowledge a slower rate of growth for half a decade or so will be need today in order to fuel savings and future growth in our later years. This insures that future generations won't have to un-fuck themselves from the legacy of debt and narrowed economic opportunities their parents left as a inheritance.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,833
1
0
BS, Austerity is what is needed to fix the economy, the only one that should STFU is you and your stimulus supporters
Good grief. Just because you watched some arcane "economics" videos on Youtube doesn't mean you have any idea what you're talking about.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,196
3,242
126
More like.....

- Keep spending going, keep devaluing our currency, keep discouraging savings, etc and it tanks no matter what and thus government spending will have to be cut regardless in the face of higher rates of inflation and in the midst of potential social and political unrest.

- Cut spending now, regain the value lost to our currency, and thus increase the consumers purchasing power and balance government's spending in the future and acknowledge a slower rate of growth for half a decade or so will be need today in order to fuel savings and future growth in our later years. This insures that future generations won't have to un-fuck themselves from the legacy of debt and narrowed economic opportunities their parents left as a inheritance.
You already have a decade of anemic growth thanks to the 2008 Recession. Slowing it more through Austerity will lead to further Recession(already happening in Nations who chose Austerity). An Unemployed Consumer does not benefit from a strengthened Currency, something that is unlikely to occur if there is Economic Contraction.

Inflation is still very Low, there is no threat of runaway Inflation.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
More like.....

- Keep spending going, keep devaluing our currency, keep discouraging savings, etc and it tanks no matter what and thus government spending will have to be cut regardless in the face of higher rates of inflation and in the midst of potential social and political unrest.

- Cut spending now, regain the value lost to our currency, and thus increase the consumers purchasing power and balance government's spending in the future and acknowledge a slower rate of growth for half a decade or so will be need today in order to fuel savings and future growth in our later years. This insures that future generations won't have to un-fuck themselves from the legacy of debt and narrowed economic opportunities their parents left as a inheritance.
Government cutting spending does not encourage individual saving. And I don't think the dollar value gain from cutting spending will offset the employment hit.
Lower consumer spending as inflation sets in and the costs of good get more expensive.

Continuing to spend while economic hardship for working families has time to become the new norm. While not doing anything to address our economic mess, hoping for the next bubble generator.

That's what they are going to do.
Because the hard reality is we do not have the personal or political will in this country to take the bold steps required to actually solve this problem.
 

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