IMF admits it got the effects of Austerity wrong

[Phokus]

Just as the pro-austerity economists that advocated Austerity in the UK reversed stance, it looks like the IMF is admitting that Austerity is more destructive to Ireland than they had first admitted.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archiv...-we-got-effect-of-austerity-wrong-210285.html

Maybe if these idiots would just listen to REAL economists like Paul Krugman, we wouldn't have these economic tragedies. Krugman correctly predicted these austerity measures would fail, that we're in a liquidity trap, and now is not the time to cut spending.

IDIOTS.

And now we have more retards in this country (lets call them, 'republicans') who want to try it out here in the US, even though it's failed time and time again. That's the definition of insanity.

 

[drebo]

If you don't have any money, it's ALWAYS the time to stop spending money.

 

[Atreus21]

Maybe if these idiots would just listen to REAL economists like Paul Krugman

Got that far.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Paul Krugman is one of the most respected economists in the world. This is not debatable.

He also happens to be right most of the fucking time...

In the early 2000s, Krugman repeatedly criticized the Bush tax cuts, both before and after they were enacted. Krugman argued that the tax cuts enlarged the budget deficit without improving the economy, and that they enriched the wealthy – worsening income distribution in the US.[104][135][136][137][138] Krugman advocated lower interest rates (to promote investment and spending on housing and other durable goods), and increased government spending on infrastructure, military, and unemployment benefits, arguing that these policies would have a larger stimulus effect, and unlike permanent tax cuts, would only temporarily increase the budget deficit.[138][139]
In August 2005, after Alan Greenspan expressed concern over housing markets, Krugman criticized Greenspan's earlier reluctance to regulate the mortgage and related financial markets, arguing that "[he's] like a man who suggests leaving the barn door ajar, and then – after the horse is gone – delivers a lecture on the importance of keeping your animals properly locked up."[140]

 

[Atreus21]

Paul Krugman is one of the most respected economists in the world. This is not debatable.

So was Milton Friedman. Doesn't keep lefties from equating him with the antichrist.

 

[xBiffx]

Got that far.

Shit, you beat me.

 

[Juror No. 8]

Paul Krugman is one of the most respected economists in the world. This is not debatable.

Logical fallacy. Argumentum ad populum, or appeal to popularity. Most of the world used to believe the world was flat, but that didn't make it so.

 

[sandorski]

Not surprised at all.

 

[emperus]

Logical fallacy. Argumentum ad populum, or appeal to popularity. Most of the world used to believe the world was flat, but that didn't make it so.

I assume he meant by people in the know (other economists). Not the masses.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

This was like dropping a cinder block on your head then saying you got the effect of gravity wrong.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

If you don't have any money, it's ALWAYS the time to stop spending money.

Sounds like wise and prudent advice to me.

 

[blankslate]

Don't worry this will never be raised in the next Presidential (or the single vp) debates.

 

[Juror No. 8]

I assume he meant by people in the know (other economists). Not the masses.

It would still be logical fallacy. "This guy must be right because all the purported "experts" in his field believes he is right!".

 

[Phokus]

Logical fallacy. Argumentum ad populum, or appeal to popularity. Most of the world used to believe the world was flat, but that didn't make it so.

Believing Austerity is a good idea during an economic downturn is the EQUIVALENT of believing the world is flat.

Idiot conservatives/libertarians said that we'd have hyperinflation right about now due to the loose monetary policy. Krugman CORRECTLY pointed out that this is impossible because we were in a liquidity trap. It's ridiculous how Republicans want to go against Econ 101 even they THEY FALL ON THEIR FACE EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME. How often do you guys want to be wrong?

Krugman is right because he PROVED himself right.

 

[Munky]

Of course, the elephant in the room is that the IMF would like nothing more than if everyone kept "borrowing" more bailout credit from the IMF. If your economic growth for the last 3 decades has been nothing more than unbacked credit expansion and printing, it would be "bad" to suddenly realize that you can't keep it up indefinitely.

 

[Juror No. 8]

Believing Austerity is a good idea during an economic downturn is the EQUIVALENT of believing the world is flat.

Idiot conservatives/libertarians said that we'd have hyperinflation right about now due to the loose monetary policy. Krugman CORRECTLY pointed out that this is impossible because we were in a liquidity trap. It's ridiculous how Republicans want to go against Econ 101 even they THEY FALL ON THEIR FACE EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME. How often do you guys want to be wrong?

Krugman is right because he PROVED himself right.

Yes, of course, the answer is to keep borrowing, printing, and spending, regardless of whether we can pay it back or not.

Krugman economic theory: Just keep kicking the can down the road, it'll all sort itself out later!

 

[Phokus]

Yes, of course, the answer is to keep borrowing, printing, and spending, regardless of whether we can pay it back or not.

Krugman economic theory: Just keep kicking the can down the road, it'll all sort itself out later!

There are no good choices there are least bad choices and the worst choices. Introducing Austerity NOW would mean you not only lose more jobs/destroy more capital, you also create a BIGGER deficit with no end in sight.

You want to clean up the debt? Do it when the economy is recovered.

How the fuck do you drooling morons even exist? This is macro econ 101. It's not an either/or proposition.

 

[Thump553]

The economy has been discussed ad naseum in our political debate, but one huge major glaring point has been avoided by all-the entire world is in a recession or depression. Even Asia this year is predicting a 7% growth rate, which is absurdly low for them especially considering their starting point.

To me, coupled with the fact that most corporations are flush with cash, makes supply side (ie, trickle down) clearly the wrong solution. I'd suggest a more suitable solution would be for the major countries of the world to agree on a proposed percentage of GDP to spend on economic stimulus. If all the major players do it then none will have reaway inflation or deficit problems as compared to the others.

The only other real solution is to have a major world war, but ground war style (not nukes or biologicals) ala WWII. Far most costly in resources and human life but frankly easier to sell to a lot of people, esp. the GOP base.

Don't get me wrong, supply side can be beneficial at the appropriate time, but frankly it is an ineffective course of treatment to our current problems. Ditto with the austerity drives/balance budgets-we don't want to repeat Herbert Hoover's blunders.

 

[Jaskalas]

If you don't have any money, it's ALWAYS the time to stop spending money.

No, it's definitely time to print money.

 

[emperus]

It would still be logical fallacy. "This guy must be right because all the purported "experts" in his field believes he is right!".

That may be true. But I don't believe that is the argument he made. The claims that he is respected was used to give support to the the claim that he is a real economist not the argument that he is right.

Paul Krugman is one of the most respected economists in the world. This is not debatable.

He also happens to be right most of the fucking time...

Anyhow, this discussion is probably beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[Throckmorton]

There are no good choices there are least bad choices and the worst choices. Introducing Austerity NOW would mean you not only lose more jobs/destroy more capital, you also create a BIGGER deficit with no end in sight.

You want to clean up the debt? Do it when the economy is recovered.

How the fuck do you drooling morons even exist? This is macro econ 101. It's not an either/or proposition.

Conservatives don't believe in macro economics. They believe government is like a family and should budget like a family. Of course they ignore the fact that families regularly go into debt because it will benefit them in the long term, like investing in a house or a college education.

 

[brencat]

You want to clean up the debt? Do it when the economy is recovered.

Except... we NEVER do. NEVER. Because what will happen when someone says "now that the economy is humming, we have to raise taxes to pay for the debt we incurred during the recession," BOTH parties will say..."No way! You'll kill the recovery!"

Keynsian economics sounds great on paper, but ultimately fails because of the above... namely, that NO ONE ever wants to pay the piper. So we get stimulus spending paid for with borrowed money, which becomes the new baseline for all govt spending going forward into perpetuity, and no new revenue to pay for it.

Therefore, the only solution is not to do it.

 

[Juror No. 8]

You want to clean up the debt? Do it when the economy is recovered.

LOL. There isn't going to be an economic recovery, there's only going to the illusion of an economic recovery.

An economy based on borrowing and spending instead of real production is what got us into this predicament. Your solution is to do more of the same. You want more borrowing and spending based on the unsupported hope that there will be some mythical recovery.

LOL. All you can say to this kind of insanity is, "derpity derp derp".

 

[Matt1970]

Spend, Print, Borrow, Repeat.

 

[Throckmorton]

LOL. There isn't going to be an economic recovery, there's only going to the illusion of an economic recovery.

An economy based on borrowing and spending instead of real production is what got us into this predicament. Your solution is to do more of the same. You want more borrowing and spending based on the unsupported hope that there will be some mythical recovery.

LOL. All you can say to this kind of insanity is, "derpity derp derp".

Who gives a fuck? Money is imaginary. It only stands in for tangible things to make bartering easier, which you Ron Paul nerds have forgotten. What really matters is quality of life for real people, not some arcane economic theories.