I generally don't think people should adopt any kind of loyalty to a brand, be it AMD or Intel. That said, if you are tired of third party chipsets, your options would be either an Intel solution with an Intel chipset or a dual AthlonMP system with a 760MP chipset by AMD. I head AMD's chipsets are quite capable and haven't heard of many issues. Either way, you're pretty much safe. I'd suggest Asus as I've never had a problem with their boards. They are usually feature-rich, high in quality and rock stable when using an Intel chipset. As for RDRAM, Rambus may be a company with some relatively questionable motives but that shouldn't mean the product is bad. Just because M$ is a bunch of money grubbing a-holes doesn't mean Win2k is bad. Anyway, RDRAM has significant bandwidth and allows the P4 to perform very well when paired with it so consider a solution with an i850 chipset. The new Northwood cores can overclock very well so I'd suggest a 2.0 or 1.8 GHz Northwood.
Well, I usually stay behind the curve for about 6 months....I can't afford the newest latest stuff.
Can understand that very well, I'm definitly to cheap to buy the latest and greatest for my own stuff. Staying behind the curve works great for software too, especially for games.
I'm sorry to hear your latest Athlon experience wasn't exactly great. Can understand that you might want to switch - you'll see in 6 months if the T-bred offerings are tempting enough to make you reconsider
.
General remark WRT to "stability". IMVHO, a great deal of problems with AMD based setups comes from the less well specced out guidelines for mobo makers and system builders. I've recently read a few spec sheets and other docs around i815, VRM 8.5 and the new Celerons. IMO the attention to detail is impressive, and I've only read the stuff available for the public. What I really like is the work put into the electrical (DC supply...) and mechanical (thermal design, sockets & connectors...) aspects of a system. I think AMD can only learn from Intel there.
And before I get flamed to hell and back: I've worked on quite a few AMD systems, many of them getting a fair beating as 3D rendering slaves. They work (and cost next to nothing) if the people that put them together thought about what they do. I am not suggesting that you, Valinos, didn't do that, I think you just had some bad luck. If AMD setups are more prone to "bad luck" (ie less good QC) is up for debate.
Can understand that very well, I'm definitly to cheap to buy the latest and greatest for my own stuff. Staying behind the curve works great for software too, especially for games.
I'm sorry to hear your latest Athlon experience wasn't exactly great. Can understand that you might want to switch - you'll see in 6 months if the T-bred offerings are tempting enough to make you reconsider
.General remark WRT to "stability". IMVHO, a great deal of problems with AMD based setups comes from the less well specced out guidelines for mobo makers and system builders. I've recently read a few spec sheets and other docs around i815, VRM 8.5 and the new Celerons. IMO the attention to detail is impressive, and I've only read the stuff available for the public. What I really like is the work put into the electrical (DC supply...) and mechanical (thermal design, sockets & connectors...) aspects of a system. I think AMD can only learn from Intel there.
And before I get flamed to hell and back: I've worked on quite a few AMD systems, many of them getting a fair beating as 3D rendering slaves. They work (and cost next to nothing) if the people that put them together thought about what they do. I am not suggesting that you, Valinos, didn't do that, I think you just had some bad luck. If AMD setups are more prone to "bad luck" (ie less good QC) is up for debate.
<< I generally don't think people should adopt any kind of loyalty to a brand, be it AMD or Intel. >>
YES! Totally agree!
I don't care how many people pledge loyalty to VIA. They (via) make the some of the soddiest chipsets on the planet. There's always some issue that pops up time after time. I've been using via-based boards on and off since the K6-2 era and every time there's something screwy that needs to be patched a hundred times over with the 4-in-1 drivers. It's true that they do pack some great features and they're inexpensive to boot, but the trade-off comes in the form of bugs. You can try and offset this by getting grade-A parts, but sometimes even that doesn't work. I've built systems that had Crucial/Mushkin/Infineon memory, Antec PSU, and ASUS/MSI/Abit motherboards that were filled with little bugs. No amount of BIOS or 4-in-1 driver updating/tweaking could get the system to behave.
I've got no beef with AMD, but it'll be a long time before I use a VIA-based motherboard again. I'd much rather spend a few more dollars and get a system that's less of a hassle to set up than to save a little bit and have to keep downloading new drivers or the latest BIOS.
As for SIS, I've been reading that their latest chipsests are really good, but I've never used them so I can't comment on how well they work. Probably when I upgrade my second system I'll throw in an SIS motherboard and see how things go.
I've got no beef with AMD, but it'll be a long time before I use a VIA-based motherboard again. I'd much rather spend a few more dollars and get a system that's less of a hassle to set up than to save a little bit and have to keep downloading new drivers or the latest BIOS.
As for SIS, I've been reading that their latest chipsests are really good, but I've never used them so I can't comment on how well they work. Probably when I upgrade my second system I'll throw in an SIS motherboard and see how things go.
Why not go with nForce or SiS 735/745? You can still use AMD processors without Via.
I grappled with a Shuttle AK31v2 (KT266) for a few months, downloading 4in1's, fiddling with IDE bus master drivers (my system never did really recognize it had them, kept "detecting" them at every boot, and insisted my IDE drives were SCSI, I wound up downloading some BETA[!] Via IDE utility dated back to the year 2000 just to get acceptable IDE performance...), and all in all getting incredibly fed up. Got some BSODs that fingered viadisk.sys as the culprit...
Built my significant other a system with a K7S5A. Easy build, worked flawlessly, loved it. Ordered a K7S6A from Newegg for my own system, upgraded without the slightest problem (I would've gone with a K7S5A but I wanted that third DDR RAM slot). I think both boards and Athlons in general (except the newest ones that are invariably expensive until something faster comes out) are a great bargain.
I grappled with a Shuttle AK31v2 (KT266) for a few months, downloading 4in1's, fiddling with IDE bus master drivers (my system never did really recognize it had them, kept "detecting" them at every boot, and insisted my IDE drives were SCSI, I wound up downloading some BETA[!] Via IDE utility dated back to the year 2000 just to get acceptable IDE performance...), and all in all getting incredibly fed up. Got some BSODs that fingered viadisk.sys as the culprit...
Built my significant other a system with a K7S5A. Easy build, worked flawlessly, loved it. Ordered a K7S6A from Newegg for my own system, upgraded without the slightest problem (I would've gone with a K7S5A but I wanted that third DDR RAM slot). I think both boards and Athlons in general (except the newest ones that are invariably expensive until something faster comes out) are a great bargain.
I have never had any problems with VIA chipsets. The last 3 motherboard I used, including the one in this system, have been based around VIA chipset. They have all worked very well for me (Soyo SY-7VCA, Asus A7V133, EPoX 8KHA+). I have overclocked them all with success. I did experience a crash here or there in Windows 98. Once I moved to 2000, things got good. The EPoX board is my favorite of the bunch. Better overclockability, cooler running, and more tweakable than my A7V133.
However, I have notcied more people having problems with VIA than other companies. The main reason I think this is the case is simply because VIA supplies chipsets to more people than SiS, NVIDIA, or ALi. There are other issues that cannot be denied. The 686B SBLive! thing was really annoying. It is supposedly fixed now. Also, I had that combination going for a while and I never suffered any problems.
The SiS735 looks excellent, the choices are just limited. nForce looks good, but I don't like integrated video (The 415D looks good). The MAGiK1 Rev.C looks good as well. The IWill XP333 v2.1 would by my choice of board right now. The SiS745 is also something to look at. All of these chipsets are very stable. If you want to go VIA again the KT266A seems to working great for me.
Intel's chipsets are probably some of the best though. I definitely wouldn't deny that. If you have had bad experiences and are afraid to go AMD, the i850 would serve you well. The i845D looks good too.
However, I have notcied more people having problems with VIA than other companies. The main reason I think this is the case is simply because VIA supplies chipsets to more people than SiS, NVIDIA, or ALi. There are other issues that cannot be denied. The 686B SBLive! thing was really annoying. It is supposedly fixed now. Also, I had that combination going for a while and I never suffered any problems.
The SiS735 looks excellent, the choices are just limited. nForce looks good, but I don't like integrated video (The 415D looks good). The MAGiK1 Rev.C looks good as well. The IWill XP333 v2.1 would by my choice of board right now. The SiS745 is also something to look at. All of these chipsets are very stable. If you want to go VIA again the KT266A seems to working great for me.
Intel's chipsets are probably some of the best though. I definitely wouldn't deny that. If you have had bad experiences and are afraid to go AMD, the i850 would serve you well. The i845D looks good too.
If you've been going with AMD for a while now and aren't happy, then maybe it is time to see what Intel has to offer. Personally, I've got an Epox 8K7A (AMD 761 chipset) box that runs fine, except for a few bad sectors on my IBM 60GXP 40GB drive. (You would think that I would have learned from the 75GXP fiasco, but no, I just had to buy an IBM drive . . .) Anyway, if I was in your position, I would definitely be looking at Intel, despite the slightly higher cost. I can only reiterate what others have said in terms of going with an i850 or an i845-D chipset, depending on which is cheaper at the time. Boards from Asus, Abit, and MSI always seem to be pretty stable. Just pick the one with the features you want and that's in your price range, and you're all set to go.
Like iamgod2u said, don't feel yourself tied down to any one CPU manufacturer. I wouldn't go so far as to get a Via C3, though!
Good luck!
Nick
Like iamgod2u said, don't feel yourself tied down to any one CPU manufacturer. I wouldn't go so far as to get a Via C3, though!
Good luck!
Nick
Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll probably get a 2.? p4 in the next few months and a i850 mobo just try something new and different, since I've yet to build a p3 or p4 system, last thing I saw was a Celeron300. Alittle extra cost, but its something new and gives me a different viewpoint. I can also get some experience building a newer Inel system.
Oh, and I've already been the Cyrix route. I got suckered into a Cyrix 200 system, and about 8 months after I just said screw it and built the Celeron. My Packard Bell P75 ran Quake and Quake 2 faster than the Cyrix. It was really sad
Oh, and I've already been the Cyrix route. I got suckered into a Cyrix 200 system, and about 8 months after I just said screw it and built the Celeron. My Packard Bell P75 ran Quake and Quake 2 faster than the Cyrix. It was really sad
Maybe Im just lucky, but I haven't had a single problem with any of my rigs, aside from the occasional hardware failures that just happen when you have lots of comps.
My parrents comp is kinda tricky though, a K6-III with an old VIA based MSI mobo, dont know if VIA or MSI is to blame really, but that mobo sucks in just about every possible way.
Aside from that I have 3 AMD rigs, and 3 Intel rigs that are currently active in one form or the other, and two more that I have yet to decide what to do with, all are fine, cept for the old 440LX based P2L97 mobo that sits in one of the comps, it's rather picky about the video cards I put in it.
My parrents comp is kinda tricky though, a K6-III with an old VIA based MSI mobo, dont know if VIA or MSI is to blame really, but that mobo sucks in just about every possible way.
Aside from that I have 3 AMD rigs, and 3 Intel rigs that are currently active in one form or the other, and two more that I have yet to decide what to do with, all are fine, cept for the old 440LX based P2L97 mobo that sits in one of the comps, it's rather picky about the video cards I put in it.
<< Get an Epox 8k7a with the AMD 761 chipset. Solid as a rock! >>
i second this notion, my 8K7A+ is so stable its scary.
booty
what's new?...via is ass.
there's a bunch of other solid AMD options - platform-wise.
SIS 735 or 745, nfArce (yeah, i said it - still overpriced tho), and the latest ali (c0 stepping) even tho u're afraid of it, for some odd reason
if u check any set of benchmarks actually, the ali magik scores the highest in I/O speeds and is one of the top in all other fields.
considering u've already experienced the goodness of the 735, why give it up?
there's a bunch of other solid AMD options - platform-wise.
SIS 735 or 745, nfArce (yeah, i said it - still overpriced tho), and the latest ali (c0 stepping) even tho u're afraid of it, for some odd reason
if u check any set of benchmarks actually, the ali magik scores the highest in I/O speeds and is one of the top in all other fields.
considering u've already experienced the goodness of the 735, why give it up?
IMHO
1. no need to find out now. Go looking about one to two weeks before you actually GO for it. Data from no may be completly outdated.
2. As a rule of thumb with Intel you're on the safe side, but you pay for that security.
3. My old ASUS A7V133 (VIA KT 133A) was the most stable board I've ever had AMD wise, but with the GIGABYTE 6BXE (running a Covington 266, Mendoccio 333, Deschute 350 and lateron Katmai 600) I didn't even know that crashes happen
4. Most important: If you need reliability above all, that DON'T buy the latest technology. Get something thats longer on the market, with a higher revision number.
5. And don't buy ALi.
1. no need to find out now. Go looking about one to two weeks before you actually GO for it. Data from no may be completly outdated.
2. As a rule of thumb with Intel you're on the safe side, but you pay for that security.
3. My old ASUS A7V133 (VIA KT 133A) was the most stable board I've ever had AMD wise, but with the GIGABYTE 6BXE (running a Covington 266, Mendoccio 333, Deschute 350 and lateron Katmai 600) I didn't even know that crashes happen
4. Most important: If you need reliability above all, that DON'T buy the latest technology. Get something thats longer on the market, with a higher revision number.
5. And don't buy ALi.
<< Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll probably get a 2.? p4 in the next few months and a i850 mobo just try something new and different, since I've yet to build a p3 or p4 system, last thing I saw was a Celeron300. Alittle extra cost, but its something new and gives me a different viewpoint. I can also get some experience building a newer Inel system.
Oh, and I've already been the Cyrix route. I got suckered into a Cyrix 200 system, and about 8 months after I just said screw it and built the Celeron. My Packard Bell P75 ran Quake and Quake 2 faster than the Cyrix. It was really sad
>>I've owned 4 personal computer i850 systems and now on my first i845.
I can tell you that ALL have been flawless installs. In my own personal experience the i845 is a slightly more stable board than my previous i850s in very small areas but since you do pay attention to them as I saw in your first post, I thought I would point that out.
The i850 is a GREAT board but the i845 will give you a higheroverclock without the ram being the bottleneck.
The P4B266 is being used by me, Christoph and GT Audiophile. All men of impectable taste
and we love it. 6 USB ports and lots of extras like overclocking your ram for a better 3dmark score If you want the BEST in stability get an i845 and make damn sure its Asus
You can't go wrong with P4S333 either. I've had nothing but great luck with it for the past few weeks. And it is a few bucks cheaper than the baseline P4B266.
That said, make sure (if you decide to use only an Intel chipset, for whatever reason) it is i845D based. I'd hate to see you castrate an already weak processor with an even weaker memory subsystem
That said, make sure (if you decide to use only an Intel chipset, for whatever reason) it is i845D based. I'd hate to see you castrate an already weak processor with an even weaker memory subsystem
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 21K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter