I'm starting to realize how pointless, upgrading your computer is. (gaming too)

[Termie]

Termie, you know which crowd you are preaching to here? I would go bankrupt if I did that every day.

"Control, control, you must learn control!"



Judging from your avatar, I have a feeling you know whose wise words those are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSN5TPKMJ24

 

[Kippa]

Meh I thought I was bad at buying computer stuff all the time. I just started to get into photography and have now realised how much the lenses are. My lens kit that came with the camrea is ok, but I am now starting to pine for specific lenses just like computer kit.

 

[KingFatty]

Another point of view is that just like any other indoor hobby, your enthusiasm might change over time, especially with seasonal changes.

Think of it as a good opportunity to transition to more outdoor hobbies, go hiking or mountain biking, just enjoy the nice transition from winter to spring/summer to get outside. Then, while you are out there enjoying the season, you can start thinking about why you never reached the ultimate overclock, or how you are going to try out eyefinity/surround, or all kinds of other things to use your computer as a hobby, a way to enjoy it, and not just as a means to an end. When next winter rolls around and you want to come back indoors, then your enthusiasm may be much higher. I mean, why not try to digitize your DVD collection and set up a weird server configuration, there are so many hobby uses for computers that does not involve increasing performance by X%, but rather a way to overcome a challenge or come up with a new use.

 

[dma0991]

The palpable excitement when it comes to pushing the power button for the first time is priceless.

Does it feel better than sex?

Just put the darn CPU/MB/GPU/SSD/RAM in the "cart", think about how warm and fuzzy you'd feel as you opened up all the boxes, and then close the browser.

It's like Christmas every time a new hardware is released.

 

[thelastjuju]

Very brave of you to post this, sir.

I get the impression sites like this primarily exist to perpetuate the idea that your PC is NEVER good enough.. I'm glad I'm not stuck in that mode where the second I get something, I already want something ELSE.

I would upgrade my rig, if it was worth it.. But when there are no genuine or REAL reasons to upgrade, they have to resort to artificial ones and rely on marketing gimmickry.. and I don't play that game.

Luckily for them, they've bred the consumer to blindly accept statistics as real-world performance indicators.. so as long as they just double a random, meaningless statistic here and there, come up with a new buzz word for a useless feature, they can continue to drum up sales.

I don't see how a single person who was PC gaming since the 90's can claim we are still progressing at the same rate. If you were to see it on a graph, it would almost start to flat-line about 2007-2008 and on. Not until the next generation of consoles comes out will hardware requirements start to steeply increase again.

 

[blckgrffn]

Does it feel better than sex?

Nope. What are you implying, sir?

 

[pelov]

I don't see how a single person who was PC gaming since the 90's can claim we are still progressing at the same rate. If you were to see it on a graph, it would almost start to flat-line about 2007-2008 and on. Not until the next generation of consoles comes out will hardware requirements start to steeply increase again.

That's true. We've basically flat-lined somewhere in the last 5 years or so and received marginal upgrades on yearly cadence. It certainly isn't the same as it was before. Part of this has to do with the inability of software to catch up to ISAs, threading, outdated OSes (XP is still king in the business world), socket compatibility in servers tying down potential improvements elsewhere (mainly because of the "One architecture to rule them all" motto. The limitations of the server world impacts desktop computing far more than we think) and in general the difficulty of combating the forces of physics. I'd implore you all to read extremetech article quoted in this thread earlier as it provides a great perspective into the challenges facing computing of today and tomorrow. The natural progression seems to be favoring co-processors and specialty hardware and cores, something we're all too familiar with -- FPUs to GPUs being a prime example.

The OP is right :/ That being said, it's always more interesting reading about the hardware/software than it is actually playing with it. At least for me

 

[Revolution 11]

Does it feel better than sex?

Depends on how much work you put into it. Just like sex. :sneaky:


For me, it's especially hard as this is my first real foray into sin and temptation, I mean the computer upgrade craze. Pray for my soul, fellow companions.

Yoda lives in a hut with no electricity. How is he going to understand the allure of the PC? I mean, just look at how excited he was at Luke's glowy flashlight gadget. (yes, I get this was a act)

 

[VirtualLarry]

I mean, why not try to digitize your DVD collection and set up a weird server configuration, there are so many hobby uses for computers that does not involve increasing performance by X%, but rather a way to overcome a challenge or come up with a new use.

Actually, that's one of my future projects. I built a server, slowly, after a few mis-steps (bought a Norco 4020, and don't have room in my apt for it. It's in the back of my closet, and in my FS thread for around $100 off retail, if anyone is interested. Boston only.)

I have 10 2TB HDs in it, and a Gigabyte 775 mobo with 8 SATA ports, and a 4-port 3114 PCI card. Planning on running unRAID on it, but have yet to save up the money for the server licenses.

Very brave of you to post this, sir.

I get the impression sites like this primarily exist to perpetuate the idea that your PC is NEVER good enough.. I'm glad I'm not stuck in that mode where the second I get something, I already want something ELSE.

I would upgrade my rig, if it was worth it.. But when there are no genuine or REAL reasons to upgrade, they have to resort to artificial ones and rely on marketing gimmickry.. and I don't play that game.

Luckily for them, they've bred the consumer to blindly accept statistics as real-world performance indicators.. so as long as they just double a random, meaningless statistic here and there, come up with a new buzz word for a useless feature, they can continue to drum up sales.

I agree with this. Even after posting this thread, I was eying the new Asrock Z77 ITX board (freaking $150 bucks! WTF? The Foxconn H67 ITX is only $50-60), and an IB quad-core CPU (i5-3450S is same price as non-S, no premium for lower wattage). I was thinking, lower idle power, since I leave my PC on all the time, but since it's a quad-core, I could still run Distributed Computing if I wanted to on it, and I wouldn't be lacking for power for desktop tasks either.

But, after picking up my Q9300 CPUs for $100 at MC a couple of years back, and plenty of AMD CPU/mobo combos (get $100 quad-core AMD AM3 CPU, get free mobo), the value proposition for a Z77/IB rig just isn't quite there for me. I mean, a 2.8Ghz IB quad-core, for twice the price of a 2.5 (but overclockable to 3.0) C2Q chip? I just don't see it as being twice the speed. And paying more for an ITX mobo (granted, it includes WiFi N onboard), than a full-ATX fairly "deluxe" mobo of an older generation (P35), also rubs me the wrong way.

The value proposition is a bit better for a MC combo deal with the ASRock Z77 Extreme4 board, and a 3570K chip, since you can overclock the K chip. So you are looking at 4.3-4.5Ghz on air with a 212+/Evo.

 

[dma0991]

Nope. What are you implying, sir?

I mean women have buttons on them too right? Press them and you'll get the right sounds out of them. The resounding beep of a freshly built PC must be orgasmic too.

 

[Fjodor2001]

I agree with this. Even after posting this thread, I was eying the new Asrock Z77 ITX board (freaking $150 bucks! WTF? The Foxconn H67 ITX is only $50-60), and an IB quad-core CPU (i5-3450S is same price as non-S, no premium for lower wattage). I was thinking, lower idle power,

The S models only have lower TDP, not lower idle power. See:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2146290

 

[Revolution 11]

That's true. We've basically flat-lined somewhere in the last 5 years or so and received marginal upgrades on yearly cadence. It certainly isn't the same as it was before.

I hope you read my first post in this thread which (briefly) explains why we've stagnated in CPU performance. The stagnation actually started as early as 1998 in certain key metrics, I believe. I am personally surprised that the engineers have gotten as far as they have considering the trouble with Dennard scaling and the realities of Amdahl's law predicted successfully more than 15 years ago.

 

[Idontcare]

So Gates's law is broken?

The speed of software halves every 18 months... no longer true?

 

[Idontcare]

Does it feel better than sex?

Nope. What are you implying, sir?

I took his question to be one in earnest, not rhetorical. The 40 yr old virgin ain't just a movie title.

 

[Rvenger]

You know, one of the reasons the OP feels the way he does is probably BECAUSE of this forum. I mean, we read about everyone's latest upgrade, and we think it sounds cool, so we want it too.

If you are an avid reader over at OCN, you would be worse off lol. My BD rig suits every one of my needs just fine and look, I have an IVB rig now too.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

Too bad the OP posted where the 1% hang out....

Fail.

This

 

[Termie]

If you are an avid reader over at OCN, you would be worse off lol. My BD rig suits every one of my needs just fine and look, I have an IVB rig now too.

Yes, and I was ready to buy your 2700k...

...thank goodness someone beat me to it!

 

[dawza]

But, after picking up my Q9300 CPUs for $100 at MC a couple of years back, and plenty of AMD CPU/mobo combos (get $100 quad-core AMD AM3 CPU, get free mobo), the value proposition for a Z77/IB rig just isn't quite there for me. I mean, a 2.8Ghz IB quad-core, for twice the price of a 2.5 (but overclockable to 3.0) C2Q chip? I just don't see it as being twice the speed. And paying more for an ITX mobo (granted, it includes WiFi N onboard), than a full-ATX fairly "deluxe" mobo of an older generation (P35), also rubs me the wrong way.

The value proposition is a bit better for a MC combo deal with the ASRock Z77 Extreme4 board, and a 3570K chip, since you can overclock the K chip. So you are looking at 4.3-4.5Ghz on air with a 212+/Evo.

I actually just made this upgrade-- $100 MC Q9300 --> MC IB (3570K/Sabertooth Z77). All-told, the upgrade cost just under $500 with RAM and a new HSF, and probably a total cost of $300-350 after selling some of the older parts.

I had a tough time justifying an upgrade from the C2Q from a pure performance point of view-- and I use my workstation primarily for work, and only occasionally for light gaming. Adobe design apps are about the heaviest-duty programs I run on a regular basis, and I have to admit that going from an HDD-->SSD was a more noticeable upgrade as far as launch times are concerned, although in-application performance is notably smoother with the new CPU.

I'm happy with the upgrade overall, but more so because I know that my workflow will gradually adjust to the increased performance I now have at my disposal, than immediate benefits. For example, I'll probably pick up another 2560x1600 display now that I have the horsepower to run multiple VMs for version compatibility/testing. This has generally been true through the last few upgrade cycles, most of which coincided with the "tock" part of Intel's roadmap.

If there's anything I've learned over the years (and this isn't meant to generalize too broadly, as I realize that there are plenty of users who actually need the increased compute power) it's that money spent on high-resolution displays, quality peripherals, desks, cases, PSUs, etc. yields greater immediate and long-term value than a core platform overhaul.

I still wouldn't go back to my Q9300

 

[lowrider69]

The value proposition is a bit better for a MC combo deal with the ASRock Z77 Extreme4 board, and a 3570K chip, since you can overclock the K chip. So you are looking at 4.3-4.5Ghz on air with a 212+/Evo.

That's a nice board, I may opt for that if I upgrade. I wish MC shipped the 3570.

 

[Subyman]

In my case, my computer is more than an hobby. I need decent computational power for Mathematica, Python, and compiling in Visual Studio. I do not need the cutting edge, but biannual upgrades are a must to keep up with more complex code. Luckily, I also enjoy computer hardware, so the expenditures are fun as well as functional

 

[VirtualLarry]

I should add, that Intel is also now suffering from "Atom syndrome". Trying to improve power-consumption, at the expense of raw performance.

As an example of this, note how IB quad-cores are now 77W TDP, rather than 95W.

Still, Intel did manage to eek out some performance and IPC improvements, even within the lower TDP envelope.

But what kind of performance improvement could we have seen, had the IB quads been 95W TDP or even 125/130W?

This "Atom syndrome" reduces the incentive to upgrade for pure performance reasons, rather than power-consumption reasons.

Then again, they are running out of pure performance tricks to implement in their processors, while power-consumption improvements are still quite possible.

Will Haswell quads be 65W?

 

[Revolution 11]

I should add, that Intel is also now suffering from "Atom syndrome". Trying to improve power-consumption, at the expense of raw performance.

As an example of this, note how IB quad-cores are now 77W TDP, rather than 95W.
Will Haswell quads be 65W?

I would normally agree with you but there already is a lot of heat dissipation problems with IB and increasing the TDP even more just seems like pouring gasoline on a fire.

 

[blckgrffn]

I mean women have buttons on them too right? Press them and you'll get the right sounds out of them. The resounding beep of a freshly built PC must be orgasmic too.

You mean like you can push the button like you always push the button but sometimes nothing happens? And all of a sudden you are in for more work than you thought when you started?



@ IDC - haha, yeah yeah

If it came close, there'd be a lot more guys in this hobby

 

[lowrider69]

Well I know for me it comes down to I want a quad core. Now I can buy say a oem Q8400 for $130 and stick it in my existing 775 board and probably be perfectly happy with it for years. I basically want the extra two cores for VMs not games. But then I'm thinking for $130 I'm about halfway to a new board and a new i5 quad. But then is the extra $150 - $180 I would spend on top of the $130 for a new CPU and board really be worth the performance increase I probably wouldn't notice or take full advantage of? If I were a gamer it would be a no brainer, new board, new CPU. I'm still on the fence.

 

[blckgrffn]

Well I know for me it comes down to I want a quad core. Now I can buy say a oem Q8400 for $130 and stick it in my existing 775 board and probably be perfectly happy with it for years. I basically want the extra two cores for VMs not games. But then I'm thinking for $130 I'm about halfway to a new board and a new i5 quad. But then is the extra $150 - $180 I would spend on top of the $130 for a new CPU and board really be worth the performance increase I probably wouldn't notice or take full advantage of? If I were a gamer it would be a no brainer, new board, new CPU. I'm still on the fence.

Get an i3 and a reasonable lower end board if you are even seriously entertaining the Q8400 and want to save money today.

An i3 with HT can do pretty well with VMs. I use one for my main ESXi box, currently, and I have one VM configured to use two CPUs and no HT sharing running 100% distributed computing (and low shares) and it runs very nicely.

If you have the budget (for a second box), a whitebox esxi server is really hard to beat. Add a SSD and you're ready to roll. Most of the time VMs are waiting on disk (then memory) vs CPU time.

(FWIW, I still run VMs local to my main box even with the ESXi server when I need something quick - and for the VMs I have for VPN access to various different places...)