I'm seriously ill reading this article

[Bateluer]

Forced to be fat

16,000 calories per day!? Absolutely disgusting. I'd like to offer all the girls in Mauritanian 'summer' camp a free plane ticket to the US to escape that insanity.

 

[StageLeft]

How do small girls eat these gargantuan amounts of food? "I'm very strict," boasts Elhacen. "I beat the girls, or torture them by squeezing a stick between their toes. I isolate them and tell them that thin women are inferior."

Damn.

Although hardly skeletal at 5'6" and 180 pounds, Hawer says she has trouble piling on weight, and was teased by plumper girls as a teenager.

Almost reads like theonion.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

You ready to send your daughter to the fatcamp? I know I'm not.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

Why not? Being fat is unhealthy. People shun excessive drinkers, smokers, or drug abusers, why being fat is different?

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

When have you ever known anyone from the US, Europe, and or civilized nation to send their daughters to a 'thin' camp to be starved and tortured?

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

When have you ever known anyone from the US, Europe, and or civilized nation to send their daughters to a 'thin' camp to be starved and tortured?

I know plenty of parents that snipe at their kids for eating too much when their child is a perfectly normal weight. I've seen vegen parents refuse to feed their child meat and the child is obviously suffering from some degree of malnourishment. I've also seen the parents that feed their child nothing but McDonalds and Doritos all day long.

We are no dietary saints, our culture can be just as obscenely horribly to kids as the one in the article.

 

[MotF Bane]

We have plenty of whales here to ship to them.

 

[darkxshade]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane
We have plenty of whales here to ship to them.

This could be a new business opportunity.

Buy American!!!

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane
We have plenty of whales here to ship to them.

I propose an exchange program.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

Dr. Nick: Hi everybody!
Homer+Bart: Hi Doctor Nick!
Nick: Now there are many options available for dangerously underweighted individuals like yourself. I recommend a slow steady gorging process combined with assal horizontology.
Homer: [pensive] Of course.
Nick: [points to a chart] You'll want to focus on the neglected food groups such as the whipped group, the congealed group and the chocotastic!
Homer: What can I do to speed the whole thing up, Doctor?
Nick: Well...be creative. Instead of making sandwiches with bread, use poptarts. Instead of chewing gum, chew bacon, heh...
Bart: You could brush your teeth with milkshakes!
Dr. Nick: Hey, did you go to Hollywood Upstairs Medical College too? And remember, if you're not sure about something, rub it against a piece of paper. If the paper turns clear, it's your window to weight gain. Bye bye, everybody!

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

When have you ever known anyone from the US, Europe, and or civilized nation to send their daughters to a 'thin' camp to be starved and tortured?

I know plenty of parents that snipe at their kids for eating too much when their child is a perfectly normal weight. I've seen vegen parents refuse to feed their child meat and the child is obviously suffering from some degree of malnourishment. I've also seen the parents that feed their child nothing but McDonalds and Doritos all day long.

We are no dietary saints, our culture can be just as obscenely horribly to kids as the one in the article.

And none of which is sanctioned by any official body. This crap is full supported by the ruling Islamic dictatorship.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

When have you ever known anyone from the US, Europe, and or civilized nation to send their daughters to a 'thin' camp to be starved and tortured?

I know plenty of parents that snipe at their kids for eating too much when their child is a perfectly normal weight. I've seen vegen parents refuse to feed their child meat and the child is obviously suffering from some degree of malnourishment. I've also seen the parents that feed their child nothing but McDonalds and Doritos all day long.

We are no dietary saints, our culture can be just as obscenely horribly to kids as the one in the article.

And none of which is sanctioned by any official body. This crap is full supported by the ruling dictatorship.

fixed as I doubt that has any real relevance to it. Its a cultural thing.

That said I'm always amazed to see how we can have two completely different reaction to the same thing. I have no idea how you can look at someone so large and think they are sexy x_x Then again they have no idea how you can look at someone so thin and think they are sexy =_=. Of course I think our extreme is equally sickening. The best bet is to let females (or people in general!) to eat normally and healthily and then let them enjoy whatever state their body results in.Forcing body stles are bad.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

When have you ever known anyone from the US, Europe, and or civilized nation to send their daughters to a 'thin' camp to be starved and tortured?

I know plenty of parents that snipe at their kids for eating too much when their child is a perfectly normal weight. I've seen vegen parents refuse to feed their child meat and the child is obviously suffering from some degree of malnourishment. I've also seen the parents that feed their child nothing but McDonalds and Doritos all day long.

We are no dietary saints, our culture can be just as obscenely horribly to kids as the one in the article.

And none of which is sanctioned by any official body. This crap is full supported by the ruling dictatorship.

fixed as I doubt that has any real relevance to it. Its a cultural thing.

That said I'm always amazed to see how we can have two completely different reaction to the same thing. I have no idea how you can look at someone so large and think they are sexy x_x Then again they have no idea how you can look at someone so thin and think they are sexy =_=. Of course I think our extreme is equally sickening. The best bet is to let females (or people in general!) to eat normally and healthily and then let them enjoy whatever state their body results in.Forcing body stles are bad.

The problem is that we don't eat normally here in America. We eat to the extreme. Because of this, the steady state of a woman in America would be much larger than is actually healthy. I agree that most models are terribly unhealthy; but even if we told women to eat the normal American diet, they would be unhealthily overweight. If we returned to simpler times and told them to eat more natural foods without all the processed sugar, your point would be more valid.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

When have you ever known anyone from the US, Europe, and or civilized nation to send their daughters to a 'thin' camp to be starved and tortured?

I know plenty of parents that snipe at their kids for eating too much when their child is a perfectly normal weight. I've seen vegen parents refuse to feed their child meat and the child is obviously suffering from some degree of malnourishment. I've also seen the parents that feed their child nothing but McDonalds and Doritos all day long.

We are no dietary saints, our culture can be just as obscenely horribly to kids as the one in the article.

And none of which is sanctioned by any official body. This crap is full supported by the ruling dictatorship.

fixed as I doubt that has any real relevance to it. Its a cultural thing.

That said I'm always amazed to see how we can have two completely different reaction to the same thing. I have no idea how you can look at someone so large and think they are sexy x_x Then again they have no idea how you can look at someone so thin and think they are sexy =_=. Of course I think our extreme is equally sickening. The best bet is to let females (or people in general!) to eat normally and healthily and then let them enjoy whatever state their body results in.Forcing body stles are bad.

The problem is that we don't eat normally here in America. We eat to the extreme. Because of this, the steady state of a woman in America would be much larger than is actually healthy. I agree that most models are terribly unhealthy; but even if we told women to eat the normal American diet, they would be unhealthily overweight. If we returned to simpler times and told them to eat more natural foods without all the processed sugar, your point would be more valid.

That is why I mentioned eating normally and healthily The food the average person eats is clearly not normal, or healthy at all.

edit:

this is obviously directed towards our American Society

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

Why not? Being fat is unhealthy. People shun excessive drinkers, smokers, or drug abusers, why being fat is different?

its a sign of wealth during a global recession especially.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

Why not? Being fat is unhealthy. People shun excessive drinkers, smokers, or drug abusers, why being fat is different?

its a sign of wealth during a global recession especially.

...Depending on your cultural outlook, it can even be desirable here in the country of rail-thin models. I've worked with obese African-American/Hispanic/Latino teens and it can sometimes be difficult because they don't necessarily see themselves as overweight, and the culture doesn't necessarily castigate it as it does in some circles.

I'm all for health at all weights/sizes, but I rarely, if ever, run into a person who carries a large amount of fat mass and also doesn't have one of several prevailing medical issues.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Our society, and how we give women complexes about being too fat, is not really in a position to start passing judgment.

Why not? Being fat is unhealthy. People shun excessive drinkers, smokers, or drug abusers, why being fat is different?

its a sign of wealth during a global recession especially.

I know it is. I recall talking with one of my Chinese ex-coworkers and she said Chinese view "plump" child as a happy child. Which makes sense because it means that particular family is well off.

However, I wasn't talking about that. I was commenting on the fact that we as a society frown on alcoholics, tobacco smokers or drug users, yet criticizing someone for being too fat is somehow off-limits. Being fat has become socially accepted norm. I'm actually kind of torn on this one. On one hand I don't really care what other people do with their bodies, it should be their choice, on the other hand, I strongly feel that fat shouldn't become the new norm.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

I know it is. I recall talking with one of my Chinese ex-coworkers and she said Chinese view "plump" child as a happy child. Which makes sense because it means that particular family is well off.

However, I wasn't talking about that. I was commenting on the fact that we as a society frown on alcoholics, tobacco smokers or drug users, yet criticizing someone for being too fat is somehow off-limits. Being fat has become socially accepted norm. I'm actually kind of torn on this one. On one hand I don't really care what other people do with their bodies, it should be their choice, on the other hand, I strongly feel that fat shouldn't become the new norm.

Being overweight/obese may not be so much a choice. Research is only beginning to tease out the genetic and epigenetic markers (more so in the case of the latter) which influence the way our body uses calories and ingested nutrients. How much of obesity is genetic is of considerable academic debate, and the numbers out there go from 5% to as high as 70%. In this respect, being overweight is completely unlike smoking, alcoholism, or drug use (which are not genetic). Add to that the massive changes in physiology (hormones, metabolism, etc.) that occur with increased weight and it becomes even more confusing what is directing what.

Obviously, environment does play a major role but not everybody has the wherewithal to control their environment. You don't really "choose" to be of low SES or live in a dangerous neighborhood inasmuch as you can choose what food establishments happen to be in the area or whether nutrient-dense food is available.

It may be easiest to look at "criticizing" somebody for being overweight to be along the same lines as criticizing someone for getting cancer. If you think of overweight/obesity as more of an illness than a personal choice (like the type of clothing you'd wear), that changes the outlook considerably. Just the same, if you view drug use and/or alcoholism as an illness, it changes your focus.

Hope I haven't opened a can of worms (I know I have).

 

[fleshconsumed]

I see what you're trying to say, but I would have to disagree about obesity being predominantly genetic thing. If it was genetic, then why does US have so much higher obesity rates compared to Europe or Asia?

One of the many links
http://economix.blogs.nytimes....-the-fastness-of-food/

I do agree that there are exceptions to the rule, there are individuals with certain medical conditions that cause them to be overweight, but time and time again I see that most of the overweight people gorge themselves on food, and this is Health and Fitness forums, we have plenty of examples of people who went on diet/started exercising and slimmed down significantly. For 95% of the people it's all a matter of exercise and eating healthy.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
I see what you're trying to say, but I would have to disagree about obesity being predominantly genetic thing. If it was genetic, then why does US have so much higher obesity rates compared to Europe or Asia?

One of the many links
http://economix.blogs.nytimes....-the-fastness-of-food/

I do agree that there are exceptions to the rule, there are individuals with certain medical conditions that cause them to be overweight, but time and time again I see that most of the overweight people gorge themselves on food, and this is Health and Fitness forums, we have plenty of examples of people who went on diet/started exercising and slimmed down significantly. For 95% of the people it's all a matter of exercise and eating healthy.

We've bred fatties. Or maybe the genetics are more dominant than we realize and the US just has the right resources to fuel the fire of obesity.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
I see what you're trying to say, but I would have to disagree about obesity being predominantly genetic thing. If it was genetic, then why does US have so much higher obesity rates compared to Europe or Asia?

One of the many links
http://economix.blogs.nytimes....-the-fastness-of-food/

I do agree that there are exceptions to the rule, there are individuals with certain medical conditions that cause them to be overweight, but time and time again I see that most of the overweight people gorge themselves on food, and this is Health and Fitness forums, we have plenty of examples of people who went on diet/started exercising and slimmed down significantly. For 95% of the people it's all a matter of exercise and eating healthy.

We've bred fatties. Or maybe the genetics are more dominant than we realize and the US just has the right resources to fuel the fire of obesity.

I don't think the genetics argument holds any water. There are certainly individual genetic variations that may make someone more or less pre-disposed to becoming obese, but genetics are not to blame for the obesity epidemic we're experiencing now. Remember, a huge proportion of the US - which is home to a VERY wide range of genetics - is obese. Moreover, it hasn't always been this way: the rates of obesity started to skyrocket in the ~80's and the idea that the collective gene pool of Americans took some crazy shift at exactly that point is a bit silly. However, there were numerous environmental changes that happened in the US - but not all other countries - between then and now that could have easily led us to our current situation. In fact, there have been numerous reports of traditional cultures switching to the Western diet/lifestyle (100% environmental change, 0% genetic change) and seeing their own rates of obesity and related deseases virtually always skyrocket.

I suppose you could try the argument that genetics are to blame because they predispose people to becoming obese on a Western diet, but that's rather meaningless. Since just about everyone who eats a Western Diet faces the same issue, it's no better than saying genetics are to blame for drunk driving accidents because they predispose most people to becoming impaired when drunk. Well no crap. But it's still the alcohol that is to blame with drunk driving and our diet/lifestyle with obesity.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
I see what you're trying to say, but I would have to disagree about obesity being predominantly genetic thing. If it was genetic, then why does US have so much higher obesity rates compared to Europe or Asia?

One of the many links
http://economix.blogs.nytimes....-the-fastness-of-food/

I do agree that there are exceptions to the rule, there are individuals with certain medical conditions that cause them to be overweight, but time and time again I see that most of the overweight people gorge themselves on food, and this is Health and Fitness forums, we have plenty of examples of people who went on diet/started exercising and slimmed down significantly. For 95% of the people it's all a matter of exercise and eating healthy.

We've bred fatties. Or maybe the genetics are more dominant than we realize and the US just has the right resources to fuel the fire of obesity.

I don't think the genetics argument holds any water. There are certainly individual genetic variations that may make someone more or less pre-disposed to becoming obese, but genetics are not to blame for the obesity epidemic we're experiencing now. Remember, a huge proportion of the US - which is home to a VERY wide range of genetics - is obese. Moreover, it hasn't always been this way: the rates of obesity started to skyrocket in the ~80's and the idea that the collective gene pool of Americans took some crazy shift at exactly that point is a bit silly. However, there were numerous environmental changes that happened in the US - but not all other countries - between then and now that could have easily led us to our current situation. In fact, there have been numerous reports of traditional cultures switching to the Western diet/lifestyle (100% environmental change, 0% genetic change) and seeing their own rates of obesity and related deseases virtually always skyrocket.

I suppose you could try the argument that genetics are to blame because they predispose people to becoming obese on a Western diet, but that's rather meaningless. Since just about everyone who eats a Western Diet faces the same issue, it's no better than saying genetics are to blame for drunk driving accidents because they predispose most people to becoming impaired when drunk. Well no crap. But it's still the alcohol that is to blame with drunk driving and our diet/lifestyle with obesity.

I was just throwing hypotheses out there. I feel genetics plays a bigger role than we think via certain diseases not currently linked to obesity, but I don't think America has a higher spread of these diseases than other countries.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
I see what you're trying to say, but I would have to disagree about obesity being predominantly genetic thing. If it was genetic, then why does US have so much higher obesity rates compared to Europe or Asia?

One of the many links
http://economix.blogs.nytimes....-the-fastness-of-food/

I do agree that there are exceptions to the rule, there are individuals with certain medical conditions that cause them to be overweight, but time and time again I see that most of the overweight people gorge themselves on food, and this is Health and Fitness forums, we have plenty of examples of people who went on diet/started exercising and slimmed down significantly. For 95% of the people it's all a matter of exercise and eating healthy.

Okay, quick problem with this argument. A gene requires an environmental input in order to be activated. If you look at countries with incredibly low proportion of obesity (Japan, France are the best examples) the people there don't eat very much. The environment pulls the proverbial trigger. In fact, there are studies finding that risk of classically "American" diseases like CVD and diabetes rise in populations of Japanese-American immigrants who have settled in California. Pima Indians in Arizona have some of the highest rates of diabetes and obesity in the world. But Pima Indians living across the border in Mexico don't face the same challenges. So the answer to your point is that our _environment_ is different. The idea is that certain people have a higher genetic resistance to developing obesity, if you will, compared to others. Ergo, people without the so-called "thrifty genes" can gorge themselves on burgers and won't gain weight. It explains why in large families you have siblings who don't pack on the weight in similar ways.

As far as your claim that for 95% of people it is "exercise and eating healthy," the matter isn't that simple. First and foremost, because those two "simple" things are anything BUT simple. Second, the large physiological changes (particularly endocrinological) that take place with increased obesity can make losing weight incredibly, incredibly difficult. It's not a simple matter of self-control, it is a person basically trying to fight generations upon generations of evolution. Can it be done? Of course.

Of course, stereotypes play into this - people think that overweight people lack self-control, but how many times have you given into to temptation? I certainly have. People binge without regard to their weight status. People stress eat without regard to their weight status. It is certainly a continuum, but falling into the trap of saying it's genetics or laziness - one or the other - is a big, big mistake. The jury is still out with regard to "how much" it is one or the other, but the fact remains that they are well intertwined.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

I was just throwing hypotheses out there. I feel genetics plays a bigger role than we think via certain diseases not currently linked to obesity, but I don't think America has a higher spread of these diseases than other countries.

We have the perfect environment to trigger these genes, if they exist (which they do). ~4000+ calories available for every man, woman, and child. Food on every corner. It's known that Mexican-Americans have higher risk for obesity, and look at their statistics - they are set to overtake us as the fattest nation. Their consumption patterns are in line, perhaps even exceeding that of the United States.

While physical activity isn't completely responsible, it just adds insult to injury.

And as I've said, genetics doesn't take people off the hook. You ultimately pay the price for what you eat. I look at obesity a bit like inborn diseases. It may not be your fault that you got the disease, but if you don't do anything about it, you suffer the consequences. Of course, some people cannot do anything about it, and it's the job of public health experts to see how we can best assist those people to make the necessary changes.