Im buying a new computer

[Taxus]

My first post!

Finally, after two years saving money ill buy my new computer

I have about 1600Euros (+/- $1600US) to spend on the new computer

I wont buy a Monitor, mouse or keyboard..

About the Graphics Card, i have always been an nvidia "fan" but now ati has some good cards and the prices are atractive. The new FX is almost out but the new radeon will come out after some time. What im planing to do is buying a "not so good card" and wait a few months to see what happens to geforcefx prices. I thinking about getting a ti4200 . What do u think of this?

Processor... i think ill buy an AMD. My question is, what speed?

MotherBoard and Ram? I like Asus mb's but i have no clue what chipsets does it has.. Can u suggest me a good motherboard that supports future upgrades and what kind of ram?

Can u give me some suggestions?

Tkx a lot

 

[Dufman]

i am new here, and i think your best bet is go to www.googlegear.com or newegg.com and put the best components that you can find, and come back here, give us an list. ITEM and price included. and we can help you config a new sys from there...

i will give you suggestions and the like if you do that
goodluck fellow rookie

 

[Zim Hosein]

First off, Welcome to AT Taxus, the best way we can help you is to post your price range, that way we can offer suggestions that fit your budget. From your post we know that graphics is a priority, so that's a start

 

[compudog]

Welcome! The AMD Athlon XP 2100+ is a great buy. Right now I think the best platform for an AMD is the nForce2 chipset. The Asus A7N8X is a good board (that's what I'm running.) I also have a Ti4200 video card (Albatron Ti4200P 128MB.) I put the whole computer together for about $700 US.

Asus A7N8X Deluxe
Athlon XP2100+
512 MB RAM
Chieftec Aero Mid-Tower
WD 80GB JB Hard Drive
Sony 16X DVD
BenQ 48x12x48x CD/RW

Good luck on your build and welcome to the AT forums!

 

[KingofFah]

1600 will get you a killer system if you know what you are doing (with a monitor).
Something I need to know before I suggest a setup, are you going to overclock?
Edit: the new ATI card, r350, will be an overclocked version of the 9700 pro. The FX will meet DX9 extended applications and will last you for quite some time. I am guessing that the regular speed of the nv30 will go head to head with the r350, but overclocking the nv30 will put it out of the r350's reach.

 

[Taxus]

First of all, tkx for answering!

the best way we can help you is to post your price range, that way we can offer suggestions

Well, i told in my first post that i have 1600 Euros available to spend on the new computer...

Right now I think the best platform for an AMD is the nForce2 chipset. The Asus A7N8X is a good board

Ok.. this is going to be a dumb question...
The chipset is on the motherboard.. a brand use more than a chipset? Let me explain better, the Asus A7N8X uses the nForce2 chipset, right? But does Asus uses other chipsets in their boards?
What about Sis 648 and Granite Bay? Can they be used with AMD? Wich one is best?

Something I need to know before I suggest a setup, are you going to overclock?

Im thinking about o/c the Ti4200 because it easly reaches the performance of the ti4600
But i dont know if im going to o/c the processor...

 

[WeeWolf]

Chip sets can be mixed via north and south bridges however as far as I know you can not mix N/S bridges or any other part of a chip set designed for two different technologies ie.. AMD/Intel.
The sis 648 is for the P4 so it cannot be used with the AMD in anyway.
The two big chipsets for AMD right now are Nforce2 and Via's KT400 both offer agp 8x and a multitude of other features.
Good luck

 

[Budmantom]

NForce2 is the best chipset for an AMD processor go for the 2100+ excellent price/performance you will also need 2 sticks of ddr 2700 (256mb). The sis648 and Granite bay are both pentium chipsets.

Ti4200 is a great card I don't think you can always overclock it to a 4600 though.

In short I agree with Compudog.

 

[Taxus]

NForce2 is the best chipset for an AMD processor go for the 2100+ excellent price/performance you will also need 2 sticks of ddr 2700 (256mb).

I think im going to take you advices and buy an Asus with Nforce2..
I only two questions left:

Do i really have to buy 2 sticks of ddr? Only works in pairs? Or can i buy one stick of 512 and buy another one later?

What is the maximum clockspeed that the mb can handle?
I saw this on a review

Processor

Socket A for AMD® Athlon? XP/ Athlon?/ Duron? 600MHz ~
2.8GHz+

Can i put a processor faster than 2800 mhz on it?

 

[WeeWolf]

The advandtage of the Nforce2 board is only really realized with the use of two sticks of DDR memory. The reason for that is the dualDDR feature which is 2 64bit memory controllers. You need two sticks to take advantage of that feature. If you go with only one stick then only one 64bit memory controller will be used. DDR will work as a single stick but with the Nforce2 there is an advandtage to using 2 sticks. The main AT site has two very good articles you should read one is a 6 board round up of Nforce2 chipset boards and the other is the article on the Nforce2 chipset itself. Go to AT main site click on Motherboards both of the articles are fairly recent.

 

[Taxus]

Memory

Dual-Channel DDR 400

3 x 168-pin DIMM Sockets

Max. 3 GB unbuffered PC3200/PC2700/PC2100/PC1600 non-ECC DDR RAM Memory

What about the 3rd socket?? Does it have any gain in performance because of the dual DDR?

The board doesnt support Pc3500(DDR433), right?

Someone suggested me 2 x 256 (PC2700), is it worth to buy PC3200 insted?

Last 2 questions
- What is the difference between
Asus A7N8X Deluxe nforce2
and
Asus A7N8X nforce2

Should i buy instead the Asus A7M266-D?

 

[Budmantom]

I have read somewhere that pc3200 is overkill, I can't remember where. Quality pc2700 should be fine.

The deluxe has Onboard Serial ATA and standard doesn't + $35 plus a couple small options that a pci card can attain. All depends whats important for you now. I would bet that the board will be good far past 2800+ but nornally they don't claim that till the chip is out.

If you go with the 2100+ for $80ish you will have a smokin setup plus in 6 months you will be able to upgrade to a 2800+ for about a $100.

Asus Nforce2 $120 + Amd 2100+ $100 +Samsung 256mb (pc2700) x2 $130 = $350 and lets not forget a GF4Ti4200 $120= $470 for a screamin rig!!!

(kinda makes me wanna upgrade)

 

[Taxus]

The deluxe has Onboard Serial ATA

Whats does ATA stands for?

Here in Portugal the prices are a little higher but i think the system will be the one u mencioned. Ill probabily only replace the athlon 2100 for a 2400

About the Ram, ill try to look for some benchmarks comparing the performance of the MB with both 2700 and 3200

 

[KingofFah]

This is my advice to you.
Get the A7N8X mobo and XP 2400 (if you did not know taxus, the core inside of the 2400 is essentially the same as the 2800. I would say change the multiplier to 13.5 and the FSB to 166 and you have your 2800. A7N8X goes for about 115$-125$, and the XP2400 goes for about 190-200)
Corsair XMS 2700 2X256 (180-200)
A decent HSF (my HCC-002 is running my tbred at 35c load, and my HHC-001 is running my paly at 49c load. The HCC goes for about 20$ and the HHC goes for about 25$)
ATI9700 (around 280-300). I would wait till FX comes out. (400-450 most likely, I doubt that 500)
CD-RW (48X16X48 for 45-50$)
DVD-ROM (35-40$)
Seagate Barracuda IV 80GB (105-120)
Floppy (10-15$)
Cheiftec Dragon Tower (window mod red, green, blue, etc 110-120 w/psu, but definitely post what the PSU is here when you are buying one, some are trash and will waste all that money you are spending.)
Audigy (60-70$)
510D 500W Cambridge Speakers (230-260$)
Total = 1675$ (without monitor, with the guess price of 450 for the FX, and with the max amount on the ranges I gave.)

The only problem I can think of is the fact that you are not in the US. That is why I listed a range (the lowest price is what it can be bought for here in the US), and you might have to pay more for a site or store in europe or to have it shipped to europe.

This is basically going all out.

You mean EUR right, not GBP? If you meant GBP 1600 = about 2550? If you meant that much money, then I would say go all the way and get dual MP 2400 on the Tyan Thunder K7X . I think you meant EUR, though,

I say to anyone who asks how much it takes to build a system w/out a monitor "about 1500-1600$". With a sweet 21" Sony G520S add another 300-350. Of course, if I were you, I would get a slightly cheaper case and lower quality speakers (I would not use them anyways. headphones for 3d gaming) and get the G520S for still around the 1600 budget.

 

[KingofFah]

I believe it stands for Advanced Technology Attachment

 

[Taxus]

Get the A7N8X mobo and XP 2400 (if you did not know taxus, the core inside of the 2400 is essentially the same as the 2800. I would say change the multiplier to 13.5 and the FSB to 166 and you have your 2800. A7N8X goes for about 115$-125$, and the XP2400 goes for about 190-200)
Corsair XMS 2700 2X256 (180-200)
A decent HSF (my HCC-002 is running my tbred at 35c load, and my HHC-001 is running my paly at 49c load. The HCC goes for about 20$ and the HHC goes for about 25$)
ATI9700 (around 280-300). I would wait till FX comes out. (400-450 most likely, I doubt that 500)
CD-RW (48X16X48 for 45-50$)
DVD-ROM (35-40$)
Seagate Barracuda IV 80GB (105-120)
Floppy (10-15$)
Cheiftec Dragon Tower (window mod red, green, blue, etc 110-120 w/psu, but definitely post what the PSU is here when you are buying one, some are trash and will waste all that money you are spending.)
Audigy (60-70$)
510D 500W Cambridge Speakers (230-260$)

Nice suggestion, ill do some little changes to it:
- I dont know if ill buy Corsair memory, it depends of the availability of it in the shop
- Cooler -> Thermaltake Volcano 7+
- Ill buy a TI4200 for now because i want to stick with nvidia, maybe ill buy a better gc in the end of the yeaR
- I will only buy a cheap dvd rom, i already have a CDR (samsung 40x12x40)
- Ill probabily use the onboard soundcard
- Alerady have some good speakers

Advanced Technology Attachment

Hmm, ok.. what is that for?

 

[KingofFah]

lol, the serial ATA he was talking about is for devices like hard drives. Currently, the standard is IDE ATA (Integrated device electronics), which goes at 33,66,100, and 133 (effectively max burst of 133MB/s). Serial ATA is 150, but you really do not need it.

 

[WeeWolf]

The biggest difference between an Nforce2 board and a KT400 board is the DualDDR ability if you only get PC2700 ram you'll be able to clock the memory at 333 but if you get PC3200 you'll be able to clock it at 400. If you have the money now and you won't be upgrading for a long time I'd get the fastest memory you can afford for now. Before long 400 will be the standard and not much longer after that it will be considered 'slow' if it took you 3 years to save for this upgrade go for as much speed as you can. Personally I do smaller upgrades once a year to 2 computers I never have the latest and greatest but I'm also never that far behind. The 2400 you are looking at is only a 266Mhz bus cpu but with the A7N8X you can clock the memory faster than the fsb without actually overclocking anything else which is nice if you want to extend the time your parts will last you.
Go shopping.
Pricewatch has tons of good vendors and you will get a good idea of pricing there. One other thing be careful with your choice of case/PS not every 350w or even better will run these cpu's properly. The TOC rating for the 3.3v and 5v is more important as well as what amperage it supplies at those volts. A baseline for the 2000+ cpus is about 20a @3.3v and 25@5v obviously not everyone has that much and that is not a minimum but keep the future in mind while 15a @3.3v may be ok for now it most certainly won't be for the next generation. Once you've done some shopping you should come back here and run your list by us here on the forum we can make suggestions. I'm sure every person on this forum can make a suggestion or two for what you should buy but if I were you I'd get an idea of what you want first otherwise you'll end up with a bigger list of crap than you ever intended.
Good luck

 

[Taxus]

Tkx WeeWolf, so waht do u think about the list i made in the previous post?

This time i wont take 3 years to upgrade the computer. The athlon xp 2400 runs @ 266 fsb and the motherboard supports 33 fsb, so i can always upgrade to a better processor when this one gets old.
The point of buying the TI4200 is also not to spend too much money in the GC now... i dont have money to the FX but i dont want to buy a 4600 cause the price will drop when the fx is out (the price of the 4200 will drop too, but at least i didnt spend 500 $ on it )

My only doubt is the memory, i really dont know what to buy...
Some people say that 2700 is overkill, other say that i should buy 3200... Damn! I wish i was rich!
If i buy 2 x ddr 2700 and later add a 3200 in the third socket, the whole thing will run @ 333 mhz, right?

About the Dual DDR... i have 2 x 64 bit channels, it i have too occupied sockets, each memory will have 64 bits available... But if all the 3 sockets are occupied how will the channels be used?

By the way, theres a million of TI4200 available.. But i still dont know wich one to buy! I wont buy AGP 8x and ill buy with 128 mb, but even this way i still have lots of choices.
Any suggestions?

Tkx for all you support, i would be lost if it wasnt you!
oh! and... sory about my terrible english

 

[KingofFah]

Originally posted by: Taxus
Tkx WeeWolf, so waht do u think about the list i made in the previous post?

This time i wont take 3 years to upgrade the computer. The athlon xp 2400 runs @ 266 fsb and the motherboard supports 33 fsb, so i can always upgrade to a better processor when this one gets old.
The point of buying the TI4200 is also not to spend too much money in the GC now... i dont have money to the FX but i dont want to buy a 4600 cause the price will drop when the fx is out (the price of the 4200 will drop too, but at least i didnt spend 500 $ on it )

My only doubt is the memory, i really dont know what to buy...
Some people say that 2700 is overkill, other say that i should buy 3200... Damn! I wish i was rich!
If i buy 2 x ddr 2700 and later add a 3200 in the third socket, the whole thing will run @ 333 mhz, right?

About the Dual DDR... i have 2 x 64 bit channels, it i have too occupied sockets, each memory will have 64 bits available... But if all the 3 sockets are occupied how will the channels be used?

By the way, theres a million of TI4200 available.. But i still dont know wich one to buy! I wont buy AGP 8x and ill buy with 128 mb, but even this way i still have lots of choices.
Any suggestions?

Tkx for all you support, i would be lost if it wasnt you!
oh! and... sory about my terrible english

Did you see my post before with a list of all the parts for 1675?
A7N8X Deluxe
XP 2400 with HCC-002
2 256DDR 2700 XMS
Geforce FX (450$ guess)
CD-RW 48X16X48
DVD-ROM 16x
Seagate Barraduda IV 80GB (probably better than ATA 150, since it beat a RAID IBM setup in a couple cases.)
Floppy
Dragon Tower
Audigy
Cambridge 500W
Total = 1675

Now, if you get the deluxe version, then you might want to cut out the Audigy (the soundstorm audio is pretty good from what I hear, but not as good as the Audigy. If you are not a huge sound buff, it will not matter)
Same with the speakers. If you are not a sound buff listening to every little detail of the playback, then some 50$ 5.1 logitech speakers will be fine.

If you do that, the price will be 1395$. You said your budget was 1600$, I thought that 1675 was good, but if you want to save some money, ditch the speakers and sound card.

 

[Taxus]

Did you see my post before with a list of all the parts for 1675?

Yes, i did, check the post i made after that!

 

[Budmantom]

If i buy 2 x ddr 2700 and later add a 3200 in the third socket, the whole thing will run @ 333 mhz, right?

You really don't want to mix speeds 2700 and 3200 cuz then you will automatically get the slower speed(2700=333, 3200=400). As far as the video cards go most Ti4200 are very close the biggest difference is price, you can buy a souped up Ti4200 that will run the speeds of a Ti4400 but you will spend close to the price of a 4400.

 

[WeeWolf]

Well it's up to you with the ram but even if you purchase one of the sticks listed on asus's site I was not seeing that much of a price difference between 2700 and 3200. The 400Mhz Kingston 256MB stick that is listed on Asus's site goes for about 90US and Kingston tends to be a bit on the high end for price anyway. Most PCxx00 ram will do just fine so long as you are not attempting to overclock it. While I'm not saying to get the crappiest ram you can find but if you're not planning on pushing the system beyond it's actual specs you can probably easily get away with buying middle of the road PC3200 Ram and not end up broke doing so.

As for a vid card well if you're going to buy an FX card when they come out and you must buy something now why spend so much getting a ti4200? I would consider picking up a good sub 100 US vid card like the Radeon 8500 which goes for around 70 and is a nice card to hold you over. A ti4200 128DDR is a minimum of 140US and that's a lot of cash to lay down on a temporary card.

 

[Taxus]

As for a vid card well if you're going to buy an FX card when they come out and you must buy something now why spend so much getting a ti4200?

I didnt say that... Ill buy the TI4200 and keep it till the fps in the games get crappy!

The Ram... i really dont know!
I think ill only decide in the moment of buying it!

Tkx for all the help

 

[magomago]

I have a Asus A7N8x Deluxe...as for two sticks of DDR- only get that if you will get integreated video (IE- Nforce boards can have models with a VGa adapter that is a Geforce4 MX...however if you are getting another videocard anyway...screw the VGA adapteR)

Otherwise the extra bandwith won't provide any real benefit.


Secondly, do not buy a G4ti2400 now! Wait till the release of the FX and you'll notice the price on the G4s drop like flies. If you wait till the R350 (a couple weeks after the FX) prices should drop even more and this would put the Radeon 9700 PRO within your grasp!

But do NOT buy a videocard right now...Get in once the new technology is out if you are going to pay premium dollars. Don't buy it at the prices they are at.