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I'm against gay marriage

C

Craig234

Lifer
I'm tired of seeing weak gay people who refuse to be honest about who they are protecting themselves by harming an innocent person of the opposite sex and marrying them.

How must Ted Haggery's wife feel about now, thinking she married a religious man and finding out that she was his 'cover' so he could have the fame and wealth?

Marriage is a serious thing, not to be trifled with, not to be used for deceipt and enrichment.

Michael Huffington did it to Arianna.

I've seen it happen to other women as well. It's just wrong.

And, we should fight against the bigotry which pressures people to have to pay such a big price for happening to be gay.

Let gays marry each other, and everyone benefits.
 
Seriously the best solution is to get government to erase the mentioning of anything marriage period and just issue civil union certificates for EVERYONE. Problem Solved. Fundie cases are happy cause the word "marriage" is not used, and gays are happy because their certificate says the exact same cr@p as hetero couples.
 
More like 'clown suit' Whooz.

Magomago, the problem with that, is that then we'd go from saying 'it doesn't hurt you for gays to have equal rights' to telling heterosexuals that they lose the right to government-sanctioned marriage, which many of them take too much 'pride' in.

In fact, the same people who want to keep feeling 'superior' to gays because they can marry and gays can't are likely not to want to give up that right.

If this happened, we'd have a lot of people feeling that 'gays took the right to have a government-sanctioned marriage away'.

So, while you can make a good case for it, it might be politically better to stick with equal rights first - you can always do your plan later when it affect everyone and gays don't get the blame.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
More like 'clown suit' Whooz.

Magomago, the problem with that, is that then we'd go from saying 'it doesn't hurt you for gays to have equal rights' to telling heterosexuals that they lose the right to government-sanctioned marriage, which many of them take too much 'pride' in.

In fact, the same people who want to keep feeling 'superior' to gays because they can marry and gays can't are likely not to want to give up that right.

If this happened, we'd have a lot of people feeling that 'gays took the right to have a government-sanctioned marriage away'.

So, while you can make a good case for it, it might be politically better to stick with equal rights first - you can always do your plan later when it affect everyone and gays don't get the blame.
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Hmm... I have an opinion that differs from you so I'm a clown. Ok. Your opinion differs from mine so you're an idiot. Gee I feel so much better. :roll:
 
Originally posted by: Craig234


In fact, the same people who want to keep feeling 'superior' to gays because they can marry and gays can't are likely not to want to give up that right.

If this happened, we'd have a lot of people feeling that 'gays took the right to have a government-sanctioned marriage away'.
Click to expand...

Lets find some heteros that feel like that first. Anyone here on PN feel jealous that gay people took away "your pride in marriage"?

I've never met a couple that felt "superior" that they could marry and took pride in that...quite the contrary many have divorced and shamed marriage 😉

Ultimately this isn't about what people "feel" and "want" about government sanctioned marraige. If I'm in love with someone and get married in a Church/Mosque/Synagogue/Temple/Las Vegas Casino the government can't tell me that I don't fully love that person and want to spend my life with them. That point is moot.
It is about a lot of financial benefits to getting the status of a "married" couple.

But to some people calling it marriage really pushes their buttons.

By changing everything, in the eyes of government, to a civil union we eliminate a lot of the bickering. Gays are equal in the eyes of the law - Gays get a lot of the benefits that hetero civil unions have - those who are more socially conservative can keep their "marriage".
Its a win-win situation for both sides, yet your insistence to keep the government involved with the explosive term "marriage" just provides gridlock as both sides will never budge.

Down with marriage, long live the civil union 😉
 
Well---I am a liberal---and a man--and happily married to a female---and I am quite frankly baffled why gay marriage would threaten my marriage in any way.

But the one thing I am not is a puritan----worried sick that somewhere out there people are actually enjoying themselves---with me on a mission from God to make everyone's life as miserable as possible.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: sandorski
Is he Gay?

Having sex with the same gender doesn't necessarily mean you're Gay.
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Has he blamed it on his childhood preacher yet?
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evangelicals and fundamentalist christians think that homosexuality is just a bad lifestyle choice.
 
evangelicals and fundamentalist christians think that homosexuality is just a bad lifestyle choice.

I for one think not----for too many so called Christians its something they go totally off the deep end bonkers hyperspastic nuts on.-------and feel compelled to punish homosexuality out of existance---which flat out does not work.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
evangelicals and fundamentalist christians think that homosexuality is just a bad lifestyle choice.

I for one think not----for too many so called Christians its something they go totally off the deep end bonkers hyperspastic nuts on.-------and feel compelled to punish homosexuality out of existance---which flat out does not work.
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they think Haggard is morally weak for giving in to his homosexual "temptations" - not for marrying a woman and leading a heterosexual lifestyle and preaching against homosexuality.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: sandorski
Is he Gay?

Having sex with the same gender doesn't necessarily mean you're Gay.
Click to expand...
Has he blamed it on his childhood preacher yet?
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I'm thinking alcohol. And possibly Hollywood. Oh, and if the Dems take control of the house, I imagine he'll try and blame Nancy Pelosi's "San Francisco liberalism". We all know what THAT means. Maybe he took a trip there once, there is so much gay there that you'll catch it just walking down the street. 😀
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well---I am a liberal---and a man--and happily married to a female---and I am quite frankly baffled why gay marriage would threaten my marriage in any way.

But the one thing I am not is a puritan----worried sick that somewhere out there people are actually enjoying themselves---with me on a mission from God to make everyone's life as miserable as possible.
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I'm a moderate conservative and I agree with you 100%.
 
Originally posted by: magomago
Seriously the best solution is to get government to erase the mentioning of anything marriage period and just issue civil union certificates for EVERYONE. Problem Solved. Fundie cases are happy cause the word "marriage" is not used, and gays are happy because their certificate says the exact same cr@p as hetero couples.
Click to expand...
Doing that is just a game of semantics. Civil unions have all the properties of a marriage as far as the government is concerned so how is it not a marriage? This is a case of the old adage "a rose by any other name...". I'm pro gay marriage by the way and accepting this sort of verbal compromise is ridiculous.

 
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: Craig234


In fact, the same people who want to keep feeling 'superior' to gays because they can marry and gays can't are likely not to want to give up that right.

If this happened, we'd have a lot of people feeling that 'gays took the right to have a government-sanctioned marriage away'.
Click to expand...

Lets find some heteros that feel like that first. Anyone here on PN feel jealous that gay people took away "your pride in marriage"?

I've never met a couple that felt "superior" that they could marry and took pride in that...quite the contrary many have divorced and shamed marriage 😉

Ultimately this isn't about what people "feel" and "want" about government sanctioned marraige.
Click to expand...

Well, taking a PM poll on AT isn't going to give you an accurate cross section of people who have a stance on the issue - and neither does you not meeting a couple who hasn't 'felt "superior"'.
I would also say that this IS about what people "feel" and "want" about government sanctioned marraige if these people are showing their support and voting for government officials to represent them.
Granted, all this said, I could care less if they want to get married. I think there are way more important things to worry about.

 
Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Originally posted by: magomago
Seriously the best solution is to get government to erase the mentioning of anything marriage period and just issue civil union certificates for EVERYONE. Problem Solved. Fundie cases are happy cause the word "marriage" is not used, and gays are happy because their certificate says the exact same cr@p as hetero couples.
Click to expand...
Doing that is just a game of semantics. Civil unions have all the properties of a marriage as far as the government is concerned so how is it not a marriage? This is a case of the old adage "a rose by any other name...". I'm pro gay marriage by the way and accepting this sort of verbal compromise is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I don't view this as a compromise, I see it as a correction. Leave marriage to the various churches and leave the legal unions to the government.
 
I can not see how people can live a lie. However, perhaps he was following the guidance he received from society, and his parents, and his religious instructions. I dont claim to know what makes a person decide to be Gay. Some people say they are born that way, but I can not look at a baby and say for shure that is true. I think it is part of our nature for all people psychologically to have both Gay and Straight Tendencies. I think it all boils down to a learned trait. Maybe something happens at some point in your life and you decide on some sub-conscience level that you are a gay person.

I can see that maybe after getting married something changed and this guy suddenly realized he was gay and did not know how to deal with it. Get a Divorce, live a lie, quit his job. It is all so complicated.
 
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Hmm... I have an opinion that differs from you so I'm a clown.
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No. Most who disagree with me are not clowns for doing so, only the especially worthless posts, such as an unsupported call for discrimination.

Had you thrown a post up saying 'I want slavery back haha flame away!', this is like my responding 'no, you don't deserve any such effort', you're one step above a troll.

One step above because you actually mean what you said, but otheriwse, it's a harmful one-liner thrown out to antagonize without any rational argument made for it.

On the broader topic - one unfortunate thing in this story is the meth angle, because the evangelicals will equate his gay actions and his meth use, as two bad 'choices'.

It's a lost opportunity for some of them to learn that gays generally don't choose that.

It's good to see the cross-section here who support equal gay marriage rights.

Magomago, you said you don't know people who feel superior to gays. How many gay marriage opponents do you know?

They wouldn't say so in so many words usually, but you would find it to be the case with many if you talk to them.

Their very argument that letting gays marry would 'demean' and 'cheapen' and 'destroy' marriage, not to mention equating it to 'man marries dog', uncovers their bigotry.
 
The condemnation of gays, like the condemnation of all 'others' throughout time is the result of self hate and the need that hate finds for a place to release itself on something other than oneself. It is bigotry and it is evil but those who feel it can't let go if their bigotry easily because, to do so, they would have to forgive themselves. To forgive one has to have compassion and that is what self hate kills. The result is that a bigot is a bigot is a bigot in an endless circling loop, totally convinced that his hate is good. The damage and misery caused by the religious bigot he deflects from himself and calls the wrath of God and fate. It's God who hates homosexuals.
 
Originally posted by: piasabird
I can not see how people can live a lie. However, perhaps he was following the guidance he received from society, and his parents, and his religious instructions. I dont claim to know what makes a person decide to be Gay. Some people say they are born that way, but I can not look at a baby and say for shure that is true. I think it is part of our nature for all people psychologically to have both Gay and Straight Tendencies. I think it all boils down to a learned trait. Maybe something happens at some point in your life and you decide on some sub-conscience level that you are a gay person.

I can see that maybe after getting married something changed and this guy suddenly realized he was gay and did not know how to deal with it. Get a Divorce, live a lie, quit his job. It is all so complicated.
Click to expand...

You should form your opinions less on speculation and more on becoming informed. Ask gays what it's like, whether they had a choice, when they knew they were gay.

It's like your trying to figure out how easy it is to stop using heroin once addicted without talking to any heroin addicts.

You are right one one thing - those who say 'gay is purely genetic' aren't right, because while identical twins are more likely to both be gay if one is, it's not 100%.

Sexuality is a complex human behavior - this is why I don't say'genetic' but 'natural', because gays generally don't choose it, and they often sense it at a very young age.

It's also not just 'something that happens to them' as far as we can tell; science largely rules that out, too, though things like molestation can cause terrible sexual confusion.

One of the more surprising bits of recent science is that the chances for a boy being gay increase 20% for each older brother he has (whether or not he's raised with them IIRC).
 
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