Illinois payments into state pension systems on hold

[momeNt]

Pension problems, by definition, will be solved with enough time. Just weather the storm and eventually the union boomers will die. Just make sure to get the death certificate over to the disbursement office and it'll all be ok.

 

[glenn1]

Why are you using the metropolitan statistical area? That makes no sense, as the metropolitan statistical area is not subject to the same tax and governance. Duh.

Just show me how Chicago has a majority of state house and state senate seats and you're good to go! For secession I imagine you'll need some sort of supermajority so please account for that too.

Why do I have to tell you how your own state works? lol.

Even if you limit it strictly to Cook County then it's still over 40% of the state's residents. I'm sure if Chicago truly wished to limit the amount of welfare spending going to the rest of the state they could somehow convince a single digits percentage of the rest of the state to agree. Either way it's extremely disingenuous of you to say the reason Chicago can't fund their pensions is because all the social welfare money they send to the rest of the state when they're the ones voting for that spending.

 

[Genx87]

Problem is the Union has a strong legal base. they can be major dicks. This is 100% on the city not taking care of this years ago. they continued to kick the can down the road and with the idea that its someone else's problem. well it's time time to pay thepiper.

Chicago just does not have the money to pay it.

Both the union and chicago want the state to pay it. Last idea floated (i think by the union) was to make each person in IL accountable for it. that's a additional $18k for each person in IL to cover it.

Another idea was to get the state to pay 1 billion for a casino where all the revenue was directly going to the pension fund (ahahahahhaha sure it will.right all of it..uh huh).

The problem is that IL really can't cut much topay for it. they have cut back education (many college grants for poor are gone), cuts for disabled, cuts for elderly help etc. Every year i hear of more and more cuts.

it's going to fall on the rest of the state to pay for this. as it is tax in IL is already high. not sure how much more people can take.

HOw would other people feel about paying a $18k bill you have nothing to do with?

What is it with govt and using gambling to pay for things? MN passed an electronic pull tabs measure to pay for the vikings stadium. They projected 36 million\year in revenues. First year out of the hoop was a whole 1 million which netter about 0 when adding in the costs of rolling it out. I dont think it has ever approached the projections. And to make up the deficit democrats passed a regressive tax on cigarette smokers and out of state business.

And I wouldnt expect a state run casino to fix this issue either. I'd expect this to happen way to much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN6mp2NjMhs

 

[child of wonder]

Illinois and Chicago are such shitholes. What's worse, the higher the taxes go, the more people will simply flee the state to avoid them. Worse still, the higher sales tax hurts the lower income wage earners far worse than the higher wage earners.

 

[fskimospy]

Even if you limit it strictly to Cook County then it's still over 40% of the state's residents. I'm sure if Chicago truly wished to limit the amount of welfare spending going to the rest of the state they could somehow convince a single digits percentage of the rest of the state to agree.

Oh, you're 'sure'. How would they do this? Where are they getting the House and Senate seats to do that? Be specific. (hint: I already know you can't be)

Either way it's extremely disingenuous of you to say the reason Chicago can't fund their pensions is because all the social welfare money they send to the rest of the state when they're the ones voting for that spending.

I didn't say that at all, I was just trying on my glenn1 hat for a minute. Cutting off the rest of the state would certainly help the situation. Considering you're the kind of person who is excited about race wars and the prospect of letting people die in floods, cutting off tax dollars is very mild.

 

[glenn1]

Oh, you're 'sure'. How would they do this? Where are they getting the House and Senate seats to do that? Be specific. (hint: I already know you can't be)

I didn't say that at all, I was just trying on my glenn1 hat for a minute. Cutting off the rest of the state would certainly help the situation. Considering you're the kind of person who is excited about race wars and the prospect of letting people die in floods, cutting off tax dollars is very mild.

Oh poor Chicago, forced to support welfare recipients in the rest of the state against their will despite repeatedly voting against it. If only they could somehow get the House and Senate seats to change things then Eskimospy wouldn't have to complain about it anymore.

 

[fskimospy]

Oh poor Chicago, forced to support welfare recipients in the rest of the state against their will despite repeatedly voting against it. If only they could somehow get the House and Senate seats to change things then Eskimospy wouldn't have to complain about it anymore.

You're the one that brought up the idea that they somehow had the power to do it, I just called you on your bullshit.

Don't shoot the messenger!

 

[glenn1]

You're the one that brought up the idea that they somehow had the power to do it, I just called you on your bullshit.

Don't shoot the messenger!

Oh yes, the rest of the highly Republican downstate Illinois is going to vote en masse and force Chicago to continue supporting social welfare against their will. That sounds exactly what someone like you thinks.

 

[Jaskalas]

This situation is a clear example of government's running Bernie Madoff style ponzi schemes. The system collapses without growth.

 

[fskimospy]

Oh yes, the rest of the highly Republican downstate Illinois is going to vote en masse and force Chicago to continue supporting social welfare against their will. That sounds exactly what someone like you thinks.

I think you really need to go back and read this thread more carefully.

 

[momeNt]

I think you really need to go back and read this thread more carefully.

He was able to get you to caricaturize his own argument. Then attack you for having that argument. He just used Poe's law to make you look like a complete fool.

But since I pointed it out, I guess he's the fool now. Never put your "hat" out of arms reach when trying somebody elses on.

 

[unokitty]

CHICAGO — The pension-funding crisis undermining the stability of Illinois and Chicago is rippling through hundreds of smaller governments, squeezing budgets as officials prop up teetering police and fire retirement funds....

The squeeze comes from about 650 police and fire pension funds and is largely overlooked in the deepening Illinois and Chicago pension crises. The state is saddled with $111 billion in unfunded liabilities. Chicago and its public school system, with a combined shortfall of almost $30 billion, face the prospect of bankruptcy.

Half of local retirement systems are less than 60 percent funded,...

Danville Mayor Scott Eisenhauer said his city of 32,000 is running out of options. Sixty percent of the property tax goes to pay pension obligations,...

"We may not drive them out with higher property-tax rates, but we may with decreased services," ...

The proliferation of pensions reflects Illinois's abundance of governments -- almost 7,000 taxing bodies, the most among the states...

The state devotes one in four of its tax dollars to pensions, which is more than it spends on primary and secondary education.

Mainly as a result of this gargantuan pension debt, Illinois's bond rating is the lowest of all the states, which means dramatically higher borrowing costs.

In addition to Chicago, the state of Illinois is also broke. Spending more to fund government worker's pensions than to educate children...

7,000 taxing bodies and the state still can't tax enough?

Uno

 

[K1052]

The title of this thread isn't even accurate. The STATE is delaying pension payment due to the lack of a budget.

 

[fskimospy]

He was able to get you to caricaturize his own argument. Then attack you for having that argument. He just used Poe's law to make you look like a complete fool.

But since I pointed it out, I guess he's the fool now. Never put your "hat" out of arms reach when trying somebody elses on.

I guess our interpretation of who looks like a fool when glenn is arguing against a parody of himself differs, but ok. 🙂

 

[cubby1223]

I mean in general.

It's wonderful you enjoy speaking in generalities when the rest of us discuss actual situations affecting many of us 🙄

 

[glenn1]

I think you really need to go back and read this thread more carefully.

You must be slow. In reference to a post about Chicago raising their city sales tax in part to pay for their city's pension plan obligations, you complained about the cost of welfare to downstate residents. This has nothing to do with the additional pension problems faced at the state level, which of course Chicago residents are also on the hook for but those higher sales taxes do not pay for whatsoever.

When it was suggested to you that Chicago could (and maybe should) vote against that welfare spending as that would allow the same tax burden on Chicago residents to be captured and redirected towards the pension fund, you deny it as politically possible as if Chicago is being forced to vote that way against their will.

Now if you think raising highly regressive sales taxes in the city is a more noble thing to do than rethink welfare that's fine. Just be honest that you're fvckign over poor Chicago residents with a regressive tax to fund tax transfers to other people you're saying are more worthy of the money.

 

[momeNt]

I guess our interpretation of who looks like a fool when glenn is arguing against a parody of himself differs, but ok. 🙂

He TRIED to make you look like a fool. For a short period of time, you were wearing the idiot jester suit, so somebody coming into the thread at the wrong time, or not reading from the beginning, thinks you are the idiot jester.

 

[cubby1223]

In addition to Chicago, the state of Illinois is also broke. Spending more to fund government worker's pensions than to educate children...

7,000 taxing bodies and the state still can't tax enough?

Several relatives of mine are teachers in the south suburbs, it's absolutely ridiculous what has gone on. They barely scrape by with livable wages because the system is rewarding seniority regardless of their ability to teach. Go into any public school here you're more likely than not going to find a barely competent librarian or two earning 6-figures annually. Then you get into the subject of pensions, it's just all fucked up.

 

[fskimospy]

He TRIED to make you look like a fool. For a short period of time, you were wearing the idiot jester suit, so somebody coming into the thread at the wrong time, or not reading from the beginning, thinks you are the idiot jester.

Haha, fair enough!

 

[K1052]

What is it with govt and using gambling to pay for things? MN passed an electronic pull tabs measure to pay for the vikings stadium. They projected 36 million\year in revenues. First year out of the hoop was a whole 1 million which netter about 0 when adding in the costs of rolling it out. I dont think it has ever approached the projections. And to make up the deficit democrats passed a regressive tax on cigarette smokers and out of state business.

And I wouldnt expect a state run casino to fix this issue either. I'd expect this to happen way to much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN6mp2NjMhs

It's generally seen as a more politically palatable way to pay for things rather than more broadly based taxes.

I wouldn't even say this is an R or D kind of thing. Team owners leveraging the fears of cities that they'll leave is nearly universal though large cities are increasingly calling that bluff these days or saying see ya.

 

[fskimospy]

Several relatives of mine are teachers in the south suburbs, it's absolutely ridiculous what has gone on. They barely scrape by with livable wages because the system is rewarding seniority regardless of their ability to teach. Go into any public school here you're more likely than not going to find a barely competent librarian or two earning 6-figures annually. Then you get into the subject of pensions, it's just all fucked up.

This is a really big problem with the structure of unions. They reward seniority because the unions themselves are dominated by lifelong teachers/policemen/whatever. When the city or the state offers $X million in total compensation, the union leadership is often willing to trade money to new teachers for better benefits for old ones. It leads to a fundamentally skewed compensation scale.

 

[glenn1]

Haha, fair enough!

Didn't recognize you were on Team Regressive Taxation. I'm sure they're glad to have you.

 

[fskimospy]

Didn't recognize you were on Team Regressive Taxation. I'm sure they're glad to have you.

I'm not. You have serious reading comprehension problems, haha.

 

[glenn1]

I'm not. You have serious reading comprehension problems, haha.

Then what solution are you suggesting? Rethinking budget priorities is off-limits, you don't like regressive taxes (which is the main revenue source for Chicago), Chicago is already at the limits of their ability to service debt, and you probably think the pension deals signed with workers should be honored without question. Are you planning to annex a few million more citizens into Chicago to expand the tax base?

 

[chucky2]

Then what solution are you suggesting? Rethinking budget priorities is off-limits, you don't like regressive taxes (which is the main revenue source for Chicago), Chicago is already at the limits of their ability to service debt, and you probably think the pension deals signed with workers should be honored without question. Are you planning to annex a few million more citizens into Chicago to expand the tax base?

The Whores (aka Politicians) already DREAMd of that, they're making it attractive for the illegal invaders to live in the area.