Illegals getting more hositle in the demands for amnetsy

[michal1980]

Blow back from NAFTA and the drug war sucks, Republicans want their cheap labor and means to bust unions and the idiot Democrats played along,

and now are willing to throw blacks and unions under the bus to appease illegal friendly constituents while at the same time serving corporate interests by playing the faux humanitarian card and calling those opposed to it racists, bigots, xenophobes etc.

It seems to me that the Dem's are pushing this issue far more then republicans.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It seems to me that the Dem's are pushing this issue far more then republicans.

Its a big future voting bloc that is up for grabs.

Democrats have an in because they are the minority party.

Republicans have an in because Mexicans often have primitive social views along with some homophobia.

Whoever wins owns the next 50 years of politics.

 

[First]

if they are not "illegals" then what are they?

you realize that anyone who immigrates to the US without becoming a citizen is called an "alien"?

so from a paperwork perspective, the term is "resident alien" for someone who legally resides in the US but is not a citizen.

but sure, go ahead and argue that people aren't "aliens" either, completely ignoring the context of the terminology and the actual problem/argument at hand.

we have an immigration system. it may suck balls. it might be the greatest thing since sliced bread. either way, there is a process to *LEGALLY IMMIGRATE TO THE UNITED STATES* just because people don't like it doesn't mean they are allowed to break laws and then expect the benefits. on top of that, giving the benefit of citizenship is rewarding bad behavior, as SandEagle mentioned.

I never mentioned the term alien. That's in your own head, kiddo.

If they're not illegals, why would they need to be 'legalized'?

You're slow. "Illegals" is a term used by knuckledraggers (aka, erm, you) to apply to people who border across illegally...except the reality is that about half the 11M "illegals" in the country currently came to the country legally with a work visa that eventually expired. Part of my point rests with this reality; that illegal border-crossers can't be lumped in with immigrants who let their work visas expires. It paints with too broad a brush and puts your xenophobic "Illegals!" terminology (that the RNC itself said made them look xenophobic) in the proper context. That context being what everybody who meets you in person thinks of you when they hear you spew "Illegals!" rhetoric; oh, it's crazy uncle Leo.

Depressed wages? Yup... they create that.

Welfare recipients? Yup... Perhaps not the actual illegals, but the children they have here are immediately enrolled in Medicaid, and every other social support program they can be... And the illegal parents? Legally listed as the legal guardians of a minor citizen so the benefit cards (ebt, etc) and any other allowances are paid directly to them.

They may produce a lot of economic benefit in the agriculture and residential construction industries, but that economic benefit is felt at the top and really no where else.

They cost more than they contribute. If we changed policy, sure, we could start benefiting from their labor more, *as well they would too.

If we leave out the billions in sales taxes they pay, the billions in GDP and thousands of jobs they produce with their small businesses via legal work visas (which comprise half of now undocumented workers) and the voluntary federal taxes some of them pay then sure, they cost more than they contribute...except they don't. Notice how Heritage came out with a figure of $6T for how much "Illegals!" would cost over the next 10 years and how no one took that shit seriously, Republicans included. Meanwhile, the CBO did a study on the Senate immigration bill and found the country experienced a net positive benefit to the deficit of $135B over 10 years.

 

[spacejamz]

Meanwhile, the CBO did a study on the Senate immigration bill and found the country experienced a net positive benefit to the deficit of $135B over 10 years.

If they are such a positive benefit, why are the schools/hospitals/prisons of the border states so broke and have more violent crime? who pays for bilingual teachers and textbooks? In Texas, school funding comes primarily from property taxes...how do you think funding is affected when multiple families living in ONE house and send multiple kids (often 4 or more) to public school? All while the quality of education received by children of tax paying parents suffer because teachers have to spend more time with ESL students who learn at a slower rate. Not to mention the free breakfast and lunches they receive.

If you visit an ER in Texas, especially down by the border, you will see many illegals trying to get treatment since public hospitals cannot deny treatment...Who pays for the anchor baby births? Why it is harder for tax paying citizens to get items like formula, diapers and car seats like formula while illegals can get them without any difficulty?

All of these things cost alot of money that are paid for by the US Tax Payer.

 

[ichy]

They're not all "illegals"; most non-tards want immigrants to be legalized whether they came here illegally or whether their visas expired. Mostly because the non-knuckle draggers among us understand that they produce far more economic and cultural good, than harm.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. There will always be more people who want to come to the US than we can absorb. It's a simple fact of life when you're one of the most affluent countries in the world. That means we have to limit who can come in, and that in turn means that laws need to be enforced and illegals deported. Or are immigration laws the kinds of laws that are optional in your mind?

 

[ichy]

Its a big future voting bloc that is up for grabs.

Democrats have an in because they are the minority party.

Republicans have an in because Mexicans often have primitive social views along with some homophobia.

Whoever wins owns the next 50 years of politics.

The Chamber of Commerce type Republicans have been big fans of illegal immigration for a long time. Unlike the left-wing types they're smart enough to be discreet about it but big businesses LOVE hordes of illegals who drive down wages.

 

[Matt1970]

I never mentioned the term alien. That's in your own head, kiddo.



You're slow. "Illegals" is a term used by knuckledraggers (aka, erm, you) to apply to people who border across illegally...except the reality is that about half the 11M "illegals" in the country currently came to the country legally with a work visa that eventually expired. Part of my point rests with this reality; that illegal border-crossers can't be lumped in with immigrants who let their work visas expires. It paints with too broad a brush and puts your xenophobic "Illegals!" terminology (that the RNC itself said made them look xenophobic) in the proper context. That context being what everybody who meets you in person thinks of you when they hear you spew "Illegals!" rhetoric; oh, it's crazy uncle Leo.



If we leave out the billions in sales taxes they pay, the billions in GDP and thousands of jobs they produce with their small businesses via legal work visas (which comprise half of now undocumented workers) and the voluntary federal taxes some of them pay then sure, they cost more than they contribute...except they don't. Notice how Heritage came out with a figure of $6T for how much "Illegals!" would cost over the next 10 years and how no one took that shit seriously, Republicans included. Meanwhile, the CBO did a study on the Senate immigration bill and found the country experienced a net positive benefit to the deficit of $135B over 10 years.

Well hell if they are so good to the economy why not just have an open border?

 

[Agent11]

I have family members with no schooling beyond highschool, they always made their money through hard work. That is much harder now than it was in the past. You can't tell them illegals are having no impact because they work with them and compete with companies that hire them. Worse is that it is a regional problem throughout the west and southwest so it isn't like they can just move and find a better job.

 

[First]

If they are such a positive benefit, why are the schools/hospitals/prisons of the border states so broke and have more violent crime?

You're confused; the issues Texas and Arizona, both those states in particular, are having are drug violence related to Mexican gangs across the border. Some are "Illegals!", and they of course should be deported. There's no debate about deporting those people, left or right.

In terms of "broke" school systems and hospitals, I challenge you to 1) cite those examples, and most importantly 2) show the negative consequences of our broken illegal system (which the Senate bill does a great job fixing) outweigh the positives I already listed (sales tax, job creation, etc.).

who pays for bilingual teachers and textbooks? In Texas, school funding comes primarily from property taxes...how do you think funding is affected when multiple families living in ONE house and send multiple kids (often 4 or more) to public school? All while the quality of education received by children of tax paying parents suffer because teachers have to spend more time with ESL students who learn at a slower rate. Not to mention the free breakfast and lunches they receive.

If you visit an ER in Texas, especially down by the border, you will see many illegals trying to get treatment since public hospitals cannot deny treatment...Who pays for the anchor baby births?

Yeah, again, I'm not sure you quite get what's going on here; that's already been taken into account. See the aforementioned CBO study I just cited; $135B is what we save to the Treasury. You citing border states, even if we just assume there's a net loss of billions there, is nowhere near on the order of $135B. That's just a simple and verifiable mathematical fact.

Why it is harder for tax paying citizens to get items like formula, diapers and car seats like formula while illegals can get them without any difficulty?

lol wut? I'm not sure country you live in, but I have a hard time believing you can't access formula, diapers or car seats in 99% of the United States.

All of these things cost alot of money that are paid for by the US Tax Payer.

They cost nowhere near $135B, though.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. There will always be more people who want to come to the US than we can absorb. It's a simple fact of life when you're one of the most affluent countries in the world. That means we have to limit who can come in, and that in turn means that laws need to be enforced and illegals deported. Or are immigration laws the kinds of laws that are optional in your mind?

Thanks but I've never argued for open borders, that would be a bad idea. I'm just not so far gone from reality as to suggest we can deport anywhere near 11M people, especially if you care at all about being fiscally responsible or morally non-reprehensible. Bottomline is that legalizing immigrants is common sense, and preventing as much illegal immigration as possible from occurring in the future is a good idea, in case I didn't make that clear.

 

[Gintaras]

IMHO. Who are these asshats that break our laws, then demand that we change the laws they broke because they aren't happy with the.

Fuck them all, round them up, and pitch them. Who cares were at these points. This country doesn't need these welfare handout queens who demand 'equal' treatment after pissing on the laws of our country.

Don't like it here illegals, go back home.

Native Americans - Indians should have told that to illegal stupid white men that came to this land centuries ago....

michal1980 doesn't like welfare handouts? How more arrogant michal1980 can be? isn't michal1980 on welfare handout from China? unless he's typing on some ancient american - IBM made keyboard....

 

[michal1980]

Native Americans - Indians should have told that to illegal stupid white men that came to this land centuries ago....

michal1980 doesn't like welfare handouts? How more arrogant michal1980 can be? isn't michal1980 on welfare handout from China? unless he's typing on some ancient american - IBM made keyboard....

Thanks for coming in and being nothing but a douche bag. Typical liberal response - personal attack, rather then any actual meaningful thought.

 

[shortylickens]

Native Americans - Indians should have told that to illegal stupid white men that came to this land centuries ago....

michal1980 doesn't like welfare handouts? How more arrogant michal1980 can be? isn't michal1980 on welfare handout from China? unless he's typing on some ancient american - IBM made keyboard....

the white men werent illegals.

learn your history, good sir.

 

[Matt1970]

Bottomline is that legalizing immigrants is common sense, and preventing as much illegal immigration as possible from occurring in the future is a good idea, in case I didn't make that clear.

That's the same as the imigration bill in the 80's. Amnesty. If you got here, you are an American but we will try harder to keep people out, and this time we mean it.

Lather rinse repeat.

 

[Matt1970]

Native Americans - Indians should have told that to illegal stupid white men that came to this land centuries ago....

michal1980 doesn't like welfare handouts? How more arrogant michal1980 can be? isn't michal1980 on welfare handout from China? unless he's typing on some ancient american - IBM made keyboard....

I don't know how to break this to you, but odds are Michael1980 was not here in the 1400's and I have yet to get my free keyboard from China.

 

[First]

That's the same as the imigration bill in the 80's. Amnesty. If you got here, you are an American but we will try harder to keep people out, and this time we mean it.

Lather rinse repeat.

Thanks but if I wanted a lulz troll response, I would have asked for one. K thx bye.

 

[shortylickens]

guys, every time they get amnesty its like scolding a teenager then doing nothing. Not only dont they respect you but they know they can keep breaking the rules without retribution. And more of them do it and more often too.

 

[Incorruptible]

While an illegal alien is a law breaker by definition, I don't think the vast majority fit the definition of a thug. Those that cross illegally looking to make a better life in an otherwise legal manner, I can't quite see the thug aspect there. Lawbreaker, yes, thug no.

But obviously with 11 million of them, there will be thugs among them, but not all.

You don't need to paint them as thugs to want a common sense secure border and immigration policy.

I am talking more about these guys in the OP. They are breaking the law and they are acting like thugs who need to be arrested.

Not all the 11 million are thugs though but the criminals who are breaking the law and in gangs need to be deported.

 

[Gintaras]

the white men werent illegals.

learn your history, good sir.

So...tell, where native american-indian immigration offices were?

Who issued a first green card to Christopher Columbus?
How did George Washington became a legal american? How did he get green card?

 

[Gintaras]

and I have yet to get my free keyboard from China.

Of course, not free...
You just have a little or no knowledge to your finances and you debt....What's the reason to ask you that question...Isn't it so?

Printing money and debt - ALWAYS will lead you to fairy tale....

 

[Gintaras]

Thanks for coming in and being nothing but a douche bag. Typical liberal response - personal attack, rather then any actual meaningful thought.

Nothing personal - since I don't even know you...

I just wonder, how people do perceive legal and illegal immigration...First Come - First Served basis? All Others - Fuck Off(from my free meal)?

 

[Gamingphreek]

So...tell, where native american-indian immigration offices were?

Who issued a first green card to Christopher Columbus?
How did George Washington became a legal american? How did he get green card?

Seriously? I think everyone can agree that, at some point, there came a time in history where conquering other nations became unacceptable and borders were (generally) set.

-GP

 

[Gintaras]

Seriously? I think everyone can agree that, at some point, there came a time in history where conquering other nations became unacceptable and borders were (generally) set.

-GP

But, when land becomes too small...and resources running out - it's acceptable again - to conquer other nations?

Masters And Slaves....

 

[Matt1970]

Thanks but if I wanted a lulz troll response, I would have asked for one. K thx bye.

The truth is a bitch ain't it?

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

I'm glad we have one constant in this world, and that's complaining about immigrants.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I never mentioned the term alien. That's in your own head, kiddo.

I'm pointing out your silly use of semantics trying to argue that illegal immigrants shouldn't be referred to as "illegals". By the same token, the government shouldn't refer to foreigners as "aliens".

You're slow. "Illegals" is a term used by knuckledraggers (aka, erm, you) to apply to people who border across illegally...except the reality is that about half the 11M "illegals" in the country currently came to the country legally with a work visa that eventually expired.

knuckledragger? what's that supposed to mean? so because one half of the illegal population originally came here legally, means we should ignore the other half that came here completely illegally?

Part of my point rests with this reality; that illegal border-crossers can't be lumped in with immigrants who let their work visas expires. It paints with too broad a brush and puts your xenophobic "Illegals!" terminology (that the RNC itself said made them look xenophobic) in the proper context. That context being what everybody who meets you in person thinks of you when they hear you spew "Illegals!" rhetoric; oh, it's crazy uncle Leo.

where did i say i was opposed to immigration? i'm opposed to ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. america's melting pot culture is one of its greatest strengths. but you can't just let everyone in because they have a sob story. there is a process. there is law. and it needs to be followed. period.

If we leave out the billions in sales taxes they pay, the billions in GDP and thousands of jobs they produce with their small businesses via legal work visas (which comprise half of now undocumented workers) and the voluntary federal taxes some of them pay then sure, they cost more than they contribute...except they don't. Notice how Heritage came out with a figure of $6T for how much "Illegals!" would cost over the next 10 years and how no one took that shit seriously, Republicans included. Meanwhile, the CBO did a study on the Senate immigration bill and found the country experienced a net positive benefit to the deficit of $135B over 10 years.

sure, they work for small businesses, that's great. but if they didn't work for a small business, chances are someone else would at a higher wage, which in turn could mean more disposable income, which results in the same tax revenues being generated.

also, GDP is not the end-all-be-all. it's A method of measuring economic output, and not necessarily a good one. how it's distributed is just as, if not more important than the absolute number.