Illegal labor supply redistributes wealth from US citizens to agricultural and service sector

[halik]

Economically speaking,
doesn't illegal labor just shift wealth around - from people that pay taxes to owners of firms that employ them?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: halik
Economically speaking,
doesn't illegal labor just shift wealth around - from people that pay taxes to owners of firms that employ them?

It's that "giant sucking sound" Ross Perot warned us about.'

I know you and everyone is enjoying it 😀

 

[JacobJ]

See -- the problem with your argument is the word 'illegal.' It doesn't make sense. You're really talking about cheap immigrant labor. Whether they are 'illegal' or not does NOT change the core of your argument. The problem is, people get so hooked on the word 'illegal' that they become irrational and lose sight of what they're really talking about.

 

[Pantoot]

Originally posted by: JacobJ
See -- the problem with your argument is the word 'illegal.' It doesn't make sense. You're really talking about cheap immigrant labor. Whether they are 'illegal' or not does NOT change the core of your argument. The problem is, people get so hooked on the word 'illegal' that they become irrational and lose sight of what they're really talking about.

I think the point of him using the term illegal was that now the employees can be paid below minimum wage and without the other benefits that a legal employer would be burdened by.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: JacobJ
See -- the problem with your argument is the word 'illegal.' It doesn't make sense. You're really talking about cheap immigrant labor. Whether they are 'illegal' or not does NOT change the core of your argument. The problem is, people get so hooked on the word 'illegal' that they become irrational and lose sight of what they're really talking about.

"Illegal" refers to the cheap labor "immigrants" that can skip out without paying their bills any time they like because nobody knows who they really are.

Are you an "illegal" disguising as a real taxpaying citizen? Your sure the one with the hang-up on that word and I'm begining to suspect you are a case of "the truth hurts".

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: JacobJ
See -- the problem with your argument is the word 'illegal.' It doesn't make sense. You're really talking about cheap immigrant labor. Whether they are 'illegal' or not does NOT change the core of your argument. The problem is, people get so hooked on the word 'illegal' that they become irrational and lose sight of what they're really talking about.

illegal as in without a social security number and a green card, therefore most likely not paying taxes and definitely withouth healthcare coverage. They make up cheap labor because employers can pass the benefit and tax costs onto the tax-paying citizens.

I agree that arguing that illegals are bad because they're illegally is stupid (circular argument), but you can't deny there are very significant negative externalities in having a lose border and immigration policy.

 

[sweetpea70512]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: JacobJ
See -- the problem with your argument is the word 'illegal.' It doesn't make sense. You're really talking about cheap immigrant labor. Whether they are 'illegal' or not does NOT change the core of your argument. The problem is, people get so hooked on the word 'illegal' that they become irrational and lose sight of what they're really talking about.

"Illegal" refers to the cheap labor "immigrants" that can skip out without paying their bills any time they like because nobody knows who they really are.

Are you an "illegal" disguising as a real taxpaying citizen? Your sure the one with the hang-up on that word and I'm begining to suspect you are a case of "the truth hurts".

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: JacobJ
See -- the problem with your argument is the word 'illegal.' It doesn't make sense. You're really talking about cheap immigrant labor. Whether they are 'illegal' or not does NOT change the core of your argument. The problem is, people get so hooked on the word 'illegal' that they become irrational and lose sight of what they're really talking about.

illegal as in without a social security number and a green card, therefore most likely not paying taxes and definitely withouth healthcare coverage. They make up cheap labor because employers can pass the benefit and tax costs onto the tax-paying citizens.

I agree that arguing that illegals are bad because they're illegally is stupid (circular argument), but you can't deny there are very significant negative externalities in having a lose border and immigration policy.

Do you have any numbers about how many 'illegal immigrants' are paying taxes? See..you begin to show exactly what I was talking about...making assumptions because of the word 'illegal.'

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: halik
Economically speaking,
doesn't illegal labor just shift wealth around - from people that pay taxes to owners of firms that employ them?

It's that "giant sucking sound" Ross Perot warned us about.'

I know you and everyone is enjoying it 😀

Ross Perot has very little idea about macroeconomics and his platform was targetting idiots. That being said, there is a big difference in having competitive advantage in unskilled labor (ie mexico) and cutting labor costs by pasing healthcare and public service bills onto the consumers.

 

[sweetpea70512]

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

I'm still waiting for you to back this up... all the economics papers I've read suggest the opposite
cis.org

This is especially true of illegal immigration. Even though illegal aliens make little use of welfare, from which they are generally barred, the costs of illegal immigration in terms of government expenditures for education, criminal justice, and emergency medical care are significant. California has estimated that the net cost to the state of providing government services to illegal immigrants approached $3 billion during a single fiscal year. The fact that states must bear the cost of federal failure turns illegal immigration, in effect, into one of the largest unfunded federal mandates

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

OWNED

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

OWNED

read my post above...illegals create a new loss.

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

OWNED

read my post above...illegals create a new loss.

Your links says that they DO pay taxes. Ahem...THEY PAY TAXES! Read your link.

Your argument might be correct but the word 'illegal' leads to irrational thinking.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

OWNED

read my post above...illegals create a new loss.

according to your nonexistant numbers, im not saying it doesnt sound likely that at least some sectors they are harming but im not going to take the passionate words of a few individuals over real proof

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

OWNED

read my post above...illegals create a new loss.

according to your nonexistant numbers, im not saying it doesnt sound likely that at least some sectors they are harming but im not going to take the passionate words of a few individuals over real proof

See...he didn't really read the link he cited. IT actually SAYS that illegals pay taxes. His arguments are confused because he's stuck on the word 'illegal.'

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

OWNED

read my post above...illegals create a new loss.

Your links says that they DO pay taxes. Ahem...THEY PAY TAXES! Read your link.

Your argument might be correct but the word 'illegal' leads to irrational thinking.

Reading Comprehension:

This is especially true of illegal immigration. Even though illegal aliens make little use of welfare, from which they are generally barred, the costs of illegal immigration in terms of government expenditures for education, criminal justice, and emergency medical care are significant. California has estimated that the net cost to the state of providing government services to illegal immigrants approached $3 billion during a single fiscal year. The fact that states must bear the cost of federal failure turns illegal immigration, in effect, into one of the largest unfunded federal mandates

The first paragraph talks about immigration in general (permanent residents like myself pay taxes), second talks about illegal immigration. The topic sentance "This is especially true of illegal immigration" makes that obvious. In either case, I have yet to see any evidence of illegals paying taxes. Let's hear it...

Another link

Another negative impact is on government expenditures. Since undocumented workers generally don't pay income taxes but do use schools and other government services, they are seen as a drain on government spending.

Does the work 'undocumented' strike your fancy? It means the same thing.

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: halik
In either case, I have yet to see any evidence of illegals paying taxes. Let's hear it...

Here's some EVIDENCE to get started:

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/04/11_tonessb_illegal/
http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/back1202.html
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600123790,00.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0321/p02s01-ussc.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040415/news_1n15taxes.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050410/news_mz1e10ruben.html
http://www.usvisanews.com/articles/memo1271.shtml
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/opinion/14307287.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/10128/printer

More citations are on the way.

PS: SOME are even from the piddly site you linked to above.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

Um I dont doubt in some instances they "may" be true. However that money withheld isnt going to the Govt, but instead staying within the business.

Without a 1040, the govt doesnt even know who you are.

 

[sweetpea70512]

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

You have to be kidding.

They get paid in cash and no withholding by the employers because they don't exist.

Your argument they pay more is totally bumpkus. Try again.

You must employ illegals and trying to justify your actions.

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

Um I dont doubt in some instances they "may" be true. However that money withheld isnt going to the Govt, but instead staying within the business.

Without a 1040, the govt doesnt even know who you are.

So you're think business week is wrong?

more proof that some illegal immigrants pay taxes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/22/opini...1144814400&en=f3ce92effe0b95ee&ei=5070
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060404/underground_workers.html?.v=4
http://www.abqjournal.com/border2005/404202nm11-02-05.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/articles/060410ta_talk_cassidy
http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/apr2006/pi20060407_072803.htm

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

You have to be kidding.

They get paid in cash and no withholding by the employers because they don't exist.

Your argument they pay more is totally bumpkus. Try again.

You must employ illegals and trying to justify your actions.

Try educating yourself:
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/04/11_tonessb_illegal/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0321/p02s01-ussc.html
http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/back1202.html
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600123790,00.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040415/news_1n15taxes.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050410/news_mz1e10ruben.html
http://www.usvisanews.com/articles/memo1271.shtml
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/opinion/14307287.htm
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/10128/printer
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/22/opini...1144814400&en=f3ce92effe0b95ee&ei=5070
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060404/underground_workers.html?.v=4
http://www.abqjournal.com/border2005/404202nm11-02-05.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/articles/060410ta_talk_cassidy
http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/apr2006/pi20060407_072803.htm

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Make illegals pay taxes and watch how fast they go back to Mexico.

DO you have any idea how much illegal immigrants DO pay in taxes? WAIT -- YOU DON"T!

Goodbye.

How can illegals turn in their 1040??? 😕

THEY DON"T! Their taxes get with-held but they don't get refunds! They end up paying MORE!

Um I dont doubt in some instances they "may" be true. However that money withheld isnt going to the Govt, but instead staying within the business.

Without a 1040, the govt doesnt even know who you are.

So you're think business week is wrong?

more proof that some illegal immigrants pay taxes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/22/opini...1144814400&en=f3ce92effe0b95ee&ei=5070
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060404/underground_workers.html?.v=4
http://www.abqjournal.com/border2005/404202nm11-02-05.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/articles/060410ta_talk_cassidy
http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/apr2006/pi20060407_072803.htm

Of all those articles, the businessweek article with anything that can be close to hard numbers. But all they can come up with is 7-8 billion in an account they "believe" is attributed to illegal workers, eventhough it could also be an incorrect filing of a W2.

Find us some hard numbers on the amount of tax revenues vs tax expenditures on these people and we can talk. Getting us a link to an opinion piece on what some Bishop wants in LA doesnt help.