illegal immigrants

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: spunkz

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Tell PBS that the Pilgrims didn't invade a sovereign nation.

Tell all of the Native Americans that that makes genocide O.K.

Genocide? I don't think colonizing = genocide. I'd like to see your sources that say that American settlers set out to exterminate the Native American population of America.

And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

That's a whole different argument from the OP.

Fact: The pilgrims weren't illegal immigrants. They broke no law concerning immigration to come over here.

Now you can argue as to the morality of their actions once they got here. You can argue that their offspring stole land from other people and claimed it as their own. You can argue that this country was built on genocide and slavery. But what is not for debate is the status of the first white settlers being "illegal immigrants". They were not.

Are you an expert on each tibes laws? You don't think that the tribes had laws saying that the land between two landmarks was for the exclusive use of the tribe?

Actually I am.

With respect to the specific tribe in question their immigration code (sec. 12, paragraph 4, line 6) does indeed make reference to specific lands and defines those lands as being in the collective posession of said tribe. It goes on further (sec 12, paragraph 5) to specifically state that any other native tribe entering such lands will have a valid passport or other type of approved visa. It further states that if a member of another native tribe does not have said identification then application can be made via the statute contained in sec. 13, paragraph 1.

While the immigration laws were specific toward other native populations they did not mention anything as to the status of evil, marauding, genocidial, white-devil europeans seeking assylum from religious persecution. Therefore... the pilgrims were not, in fact, in violation of any specific immigration law.

I hope we can now put this issue to rest.

before you rest your case, would u indulge me and other interested parties as to your reasoning for describing all the european settlers as evil, marauding, and genocidal. it would seem from my prior knowledge of the subject that most of the land obtained by the early colonists was done so through legitimate purchase. i don't doubt that evil men arrived on the shores of America, but i imagine they were the ones seeking land and money, not religious freedom.

But of course! Sarcasm.

 

[judasmachine]

There were sovereign nations here. The pilgrims just chose to ignore that when they turned on their hosts. Because they didn't have a flag they were free game to be sold into slavery, butchered, and worst of all converted. The pilgrims had no right to do what they did. No right. It's very akin to a wanted man coming into your house, and raping your daughter, killing you, and selling your sons. If anyone survives, they are forced to live in the basement with meager food. Oh and this wanted man tells you before you die that God gives him the right.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Tell PBS that the Pilgrims didn't invade a sovereign nation.

Tell all of the Native Americans that that makes genocide O.K.

Genocide? I don't think colonizing = genocide. I'd like to see your sources that say that American settlers set out to exterminate the Native American population of America.

And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

That's a whole different argument from the OP.

Fact: The pilgrims weren't illegal immigrants. They broke no law concerning immigration to come over here.

Now you can argue as to the morality of their actions once they got here. You can argue that their offspring stole land from other people and claimed it as their own. You can argue that this country was built on genocide and slavery. But what is not for debate is the status of the first white settlers being "illegal immigrants". They were not.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

Who cares? Its been a few hundred years, get over it.

A few hundred years??

:shocked:

Yeah, since it began.




Get a history book, for crying out loud!

:roll:




Better yet, get a clue first.

 

[themusgrat]

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Tell PBS that the Pilgrims didn't invade a sovereign nation.

No, they (or later Americans) only took people's land away, took away their livelihood, and to top it off, forced them into reservations like cattle. We did them wrong, though it is done, and over with.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Tell PBS that the Pilgrims didn't invade a sovereign nation.

Tell all of the Native Americans that that makes genocide O.K.

Genocide? I don't think colonizing = genocide. I'd like to see your sources that say that American settlers set out to exterminate the Native American population of America.

And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

That's a whole different argument from the OP.

Fact: The pilgrims weren't illegal immigrants. They broke no law concerning immigration to come over here.

Now you can argue as to the morality of their actions once they got here. You can argue that their offspring stole land from other people and claimed it as their own. You can argue that this country was built on genocide and slavery. But what is not for debate is the status of the first white settlers being "illegal immigrants". They were not.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

Who cares? Its been a few hundred years, get over it.

A few hundred years??

:shocked:

Yeah, since it began.




Get a history book, for crying out loud!

:roll:




Better yet, get a clue first.

Awww look the whole we are still opressed card..awwwwwww grow up, get a clue.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Tell PBS that the Pilgrims didn't invade a sovereign nation.

Tell all of the Native Americans that that makes genocide O.K.

Genocide? I don't think colonizing = genocide. I'd like to see your sources that say that American settlers set out to exterminate the Native American population of America.

And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

That's a whole different argument from the OP.

Fact: The pilgrims weren't illegal immigrants. They broke no law concerning immigration to come over here.

Now you can argue as to the morality of their actions once they got here. You can argue that their offspring stole land from other people and claimed it as their own. You can argue that this country was built on genocide and slavery. But what is not for debate is the status of the first white settlers being "illegal immigrants". They were not.

wtf? the moment they landed they were stealing land, living on Native American grounds.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Tell PBS that the Pilgrims didn't invade a sovereign nation.

Tell all of the Native Americans that that makes genocide O.K.

Genocide? I don't think colonizing = genocide. I'd like to see your sources that say that American settlers set out to exterminate the Native American population of America.

And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

That's a whole different argument from the OP.

Fact: The pilgrims weren't illegal immigrants. They broke no law concerning immigration to come over here.

Now you can argue as to the morality of their actions once they got here. You can argue that their offspring stole land from other people and claimed it as their own. You can argue that this country was built on genocide and slavery. But what is not for debate is the status of the first white settlers being "illegal immigrants". They were not.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

Who cares? Its been a few hundred years, get over it.

A few hundred years??

:shocked:

Yeah, since it began.




Get a history book, for crying out loud!

:roll:




Better yet, get a clue first.

Awww look the whole we are still opressed card..awwwwwww grow up, get a clue.

yeah, F the oppressed. they can kiss our collective arses.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Tell PBS that the Pilgrims didn't invade a sovereign nation.

Tell all of the Native Americans that that makes genocide O.K.

Genocide? I don't think colonizing = genocide. I'd like to see your sources that say that American settlers set out to exterminate the Native American population of America.

And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

That's a whole different argument from the OP.

Fact: The pilgrims weren't illegal immigrants. They broke no law concerning immigration to come over here.

Now you can argue as to the morality of their actions once they got here. You can argue that their offspring stole land from other people and claimed it as their own. You can argue that this country was built on genocide and slavery. But what is not for debate is the status of the first white settlers being "illegal immigrants". They were not.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

Who cares? Its been a few hundred years, get over it.

A few hundred years??

:shocked:

Yeah, since it began.




Get a history book, for crying out loud!

:roll:




Better yet, get a clue first.

Awww look the whole we are still opressed card..awwwwwww grow up, get a clue.

yeah, F the oppressed. they can kiss our collective arses.

He's attempting to garner votes for the 2005 Slobodan Milosevic Human Sensitivity Award.

He's hoping to run away with the crown now that Saddam is out of the running.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: lyssword
"The first illegal immigrants in America were Pilgrims"

That implies that the Indians had an organized and defined, legitimate government with which to declare it to be illegal. Instead, as I understand it, we had warring, primative tribes.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Stunt

The only difference is; the pilgrims treated the natives like crap and literally stole the country. Illegals are part of the American society; hardworking, loyal and contribute immensly to society.

Are you sure the illegals don't end up consuming more in government services--like health care, police, courts, prisons, education for children, and welfare, than they contribute? What about the costs of having an increased population?

Loyal? Laugh! Loyal to who? Loyal to Mexico? Do you know what the term "Reconquista" means? (A Reconquista wants to retake the Southern U.S.)

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.

Didn't the Aztecs have hundreds of thousands of human sacrifices? Weren't some of these tribes even cannibalistic from time to time? (See the History Channel special on cannibalism.)

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: EatSpam

And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.

Didn't the Aztecs have hundreds of thousands of human sacrifices? Weren't some of these tribes even cannibalistic from time to time? (See the History Channel special on cannibalism.)

It is true that there were conflicts, but not to the scale Europe has been prone to till the late 20th Century. Usually these conflicts were low intesity and dictated hunting rights to a certain trail. And yes, the MesoAmerican tribes were quite bloody, even comparable with Europe or Asia. But still my stance is what gives you the right, just because someone had fought before? The whites did maraude about the land killing Indians, and their primary food, clothing source. To say otherwise is to deny a Holocaust.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: EatSpam

And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.

Didn't the Aztecs have hundreds of thousands of human sacrifices? Weren't some of these tribes even cannibalistic from time to time? (See the History Channel special on cannibalism.)

So that makes it good that they were killed...Neato!

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: lyssword
"The first illegal immigrants in America were Pilgrims"

That implies that the Indians had an organized and defined, legitimate government with which to declare it to be illegal. Instead, as I understand it, we had warring, primative tribes.

So they deserved to die...Goody!

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: Stunt

The only difference is; the pilgrims treated the natives like crap and literally stole the country. Illegals are part of the American society; hardworking, loyal and contribute immensly to society.

Are you sure the illegals don't end up consuming more in government services--like health care, police, courts, prisons, education for children, and welfare, than they contribute? What about the costs of having an increased population?

Loyal? Laugh! Loyal to who? Loyal to Mexico? Do you know what the term "Reconquista" means? (A Reconquista wants to retake the Southern U.S.)

Well then let's get with it and wipe them out, just like those pesky redskins!

 

[pinion9]

How many of you live in America and think it is wrong that we "took it" from the Natives? If so, why don't you move to a different country?

"I think it is deplorable what we did to those poor natives, taking their land, raping their children...but hey! What's done is done. What time do we eat?"

Just because they were "here first" doesn't give them any explicit rights to the land. Who gives a $hit? They should have been stronger and defended their country. We took it, fair and square, get over it and go back to your casino.

 

[OutHouse]

The only difference is; the pilgrims treated the natives like crap and literally stole the country. Illegals are part of the American society; hardworking, loyal and contribute immensly to society.

WTF??? ok show us examples of your stupid arguement?

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: pinion9
How many of you live in America and think it is wrong that we "took it" from the Natives? If so, why don't you move to a different country?

"I think it is deplorable what we did to those poor natives, taking their land, raping their children...but hey! What's done is done. What time do we eat?"

Just because they were "here first" doesn't give them any explicit rights to the land. Who gives a $hit? They should have been stronger and defended their country. We took it, fair and square, get over it and go back to your casino.

Jacka$$ and proud of it. Great way to go through life.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: pinion9
How many of you live in America and think it is wrong that we "took it" from the Natives? If so, why don't you move to a different country?

"I think it is deplorable what we did to those poor natives, taking their land, raping their children...but hey! What's done is done. What time do we eat?"

Just because they were "here first" doesn't give them any explicit rights to the land. Who gives a $hit? They should have been stronger and defended their country.

Fixed so i agree with it. but a better arguement would be this. Instead moving to a different country, why not instead hand over the deed to your house to some Sioux family or any family from any tribe, then go live on the reservation.

I dont think there would be many takers on that.

 

[judasmachine]

If the table were turned you guys would be crying bloody murder, and you know it. Hell you guys usually do when a peasent farm worker comes here to work where he can.

 

[TheSlamma]

Give them all cards, they are not taking any of the jobs I want and it makes it so companies don't have to go across the border as much.


But they do NEED to be given citizenship, so the repubs don't treat them like slave labor since they can't call the cops.

 

[JeepinEd]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Give them all cards, they are not taking any of the jobs I want and it makes it so companies don't have to go across the border as much.


But they do NEED to be given citizenship, so the repubs don't treat them like slave labor since they can't call the cops.

They may not be taking jobs that YOU want, but I know of several Legal immigrants who have lost their jobs to ILLEGAL immigrants earning a lower wage under the table and not paying taxes.
There is no such thing as jobs that Americans will not do. There are only jobs that Americans cannot afford to take because Illegal immigration has brought the pay scale so low, that nobody can afford to take these jobs. You talk about it being better to have illegals working here than us outsourcing our jobs to other countries, but you don't understand that most of the wages earned get sent back to their country. At the same time, they apply for welfare and use our Emergency rooms as free clinics.

Being a foreign born US Citizen, I understand the need for LEGAL and ORDERLY immigration. I also expect immigrants to ASSIMILATE with our society, not create their own society seperate from ours, which is exactly what has happened.

Yes, the Europeans came here and took the land from the Indians. What happened is regrettable and we can all learn from it. Just because it happened, however, does not mean that we should just throw our borders wide open to anyone wanting to enter the US.

 

[MiniDoom]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: EatSpam

And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.

Didn't the Aztecs have hundreds of thousands of human sacrifices? Weren't some of these tribes even cannibalistic from time to time? (See the History Channel special on cannibalism.)

So that makes it good that they were killed...Neato!

Do you live in north america feralkid?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Tell PBS that the Pilgrims didn't invade a sovereign nation.

Tell all of the Native Americans that that makes genocide O.K.

Genocide? I don't think colonizing = genocide. I'd like to see your sources that say that American settlers set out to exterminate the Native American population of America.

And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

That's a whole different argument from the OP.

Fact: The pilgrims weren't illegal immigrants. They broke no law concerning immigration to come over here.

Now you can argue as to the morality of their actions once they got here. You can argue that their offspring stole land from other people and claimed it as their own. You can argue that this country was built on genocide and slavery. But what is not for debate is the status of the first white settlers being "illegal immigrants". They were not.

Well, I'm sure Native America is convinced.

Who cares? Its been a few hundred years, get over it.

A few hundred years??

:shocked:

Yeah, since it began.




Get a history book, for crying out loud!

:roll:




Better yet, get a clue first.

Awww look the whole we are still opressed card..awwwwwww grow up, get a clue.

yeah, F the oppressed. they can kiss our collective arses.

He's attempting to garner votes for the 2005 Slobodan Milosevic Human Sensitivity Award.

He's hoping to run away with the crown now that Saddam is out of the running.

They are not opressed, lets add blacks, jews, asians, whites in black neighborhoods, and a few more (insert whinning people who use the race hard here), and make sure they all get subsidies so they can be even... lets also give them tax exempt status, free land, and the option to run casinos and profit from them. Let us make it all nice and even.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: pinion9
How many of you live in America and think it is wrong that we "took it" from the Natives? If so, why don't you move to a different country?

"I think it is deplorable what we did to those poor natives, taking their land, raping their children...but hey! What's done is done. What time do we eat?"

Just because they were "here first" doesn't give them any explicit rights to the land. Who gives a $hit? They should have been stronger and defended their country. We took it, fair and square, get over it and go back to your casino.

Jacka$$ and proud of it. Great way to go through life.

Yep, and you are really helping the cause with your lil immature whinny comments, like i said, get over it, minorities should stop asking for handouts and for people to recognize there "in there own mind" plight, and suck it up and get to work, you want something, go out and work for it, stop being a lazy jackass who expects to get by on his race.