ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT POLL

[liquidblue]

Too much to quote.

I wasn't aware that to come into this country you had to get an IQ test. Please. Coming to this country is probably by bribing and luck at the consulate. Many stories I've heard. The argument about being smart enough to come here legally has no ground. Not everybody has the chance to work for a big company that'll send you overseas or whatever. Besides, if you have a job for a company that has that ability, why would you leave your native country? Imagine having to leave everything you have and know to start a life in, uh, China because you can give your family a better life.

No, not giving jobs to those who are illegal will just basically mean they are going to turn into crime out of necessity. Not a good idea. Probably just reinforcing the border patrol would be the best idea, but impossible due to how big it is.

And this is a "superior society," nik? I think you need to watch the news more often. I don't need to point out examples. Wait, yes I will. How about sweatshops ran in other countries? "We'll show those third world countries how to run a country! We'll give all celebrities a get-out-of-jail-free card regardless of the crime and give cops paid vacations for raping/killing/beating people!" This is not a perfect country.

Letting other countries deal with their own problems? Riiiight. Like how France decided not to participate in this Iraq War business? How are they seen now? Cowards. Freedom Fries... ha! Am I right? Let me bring it down to a simpler level. In your neighborhood third house down from your own there is someone getting raped/robbed/whatever. What are you going to do? Sit and watch and wait until it eventually comes to your door?

On the other hand, those illegals who come here to commit crimes should be tracked down and punished just like everyone else. I think the laws are kind of weak, as some just murder and run back across the border and get off scott free.

 

[StageLeft]

Coming to this country is probably by bribing and luck at the consulate

That's a ridiculous statement, coming from somebody who's done it.

No, not giving jobs to those who are illegal will just basically mean they are going to turn into crime out of necessity.

For those here now, I agree. For those who still want to come, if they have no job then they will not come.

 

[amoeba]

actually to come to this country legally, you do have to go through some kind of IQ test or at least demonstrate your ability to contribute to the US.

You have to go through an interview at the consulate and typically demonstrate your value there. It is a very strenuous process and often worthy candidates are rejected.

For example, after 911, the US reduced the number of legal immigrants it wanted to accepted and also tightened up qualifications for immigration. I know several students who were awarded full ride grants at grad schools in the US but where still denied student visas.

Liquidblue, you have very little faith in your own government if you believe bribery is commonplace at the consulate.

 

[liquidblue]

Originally posted by: amoeba
actually to come to this country legally, you do have to go through some kind of IQ test or at least demonstrate your ability to contribute to the US.

You have to go through an interview at the consulate and typically demonstrate your value there. It is a very strenuous process and often worthy candidates are rejected.

For example, after 911, the US reduced the number of legal immigrants it wanted to accepted and also tightened up qualifications for immigration. I know several students who were awarded full ride grants at grad schools in the US but where still denied student visas.

Liquidblue, you have very little faith in your own government if you believe bribery is commonplace at the consulate.

Actually I'm an immigrant too. So don't judge, Skoorb. I came when I was 9, so I have no idea what went on what went on when my dad went to the consulate. But I know he had luck with the interviewer (and as many, many people I've talked to regarding their interviewing process before they came here). And like I said I was not aware of some sort of IQ test. I know immigrants have to prove they will contribute (ie college degree) to the society, but nothing about a test. Besides, my dad didn't take any test when he went to the cosulate.

Thanks for pwning me in regards to the consulate process. I never really knew much about it. So, I take that bribery statement back. =)

 

[hevnsnt]

Originally posted by: conjur
C) Other. They should either apply for proper credentials to remain in the U.S. and pay their share of taxes from whatever job they have or get the fvck out of here.

ding.winnar

 

[audi]

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe
What good does it do to deport them? Do you think you have solved the problem?

Let's see. If you were outside wearing shorts and a tank top in freezing rain and wanted to break in to your neighbor's house so you could get out of the rain, but you *knew* that the very second you took one single step into the house, you'd be thrown back out on your ass, would you bother trying to break in?

If you discourage entry at the boarder, then reinforce that discouragement with a guarantee of being immediately deported, are you going to spend the money it takes to get across the boarder to begin with?

There may be 13 million illegals and it cost $600+ dollars to deport each. Add to that the cost of investigation. Then add the cost of doing the impossible. Not letting anynore in.

No matter what you think deportation is not the deterrent you think it is and does nothin to solve the problem.

600+ dollars? and where did you get these irrefutable facts?!

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: PanzerIV
No. There are a lot of US born worthless POS that should be deported before they are. At least these kids have potential.

I agree. Let's deport some of the dregs of our society and allow in people that will actually work hard.

 

[audi]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: PanzerIV
No. There are a lot of US born worthless POS that should be deported before they are. At least these kids have potential.

I agree. Let's deport some of the dregs of our society and allow in people that will actually work hard.

do you honestly believe that? if so, who should decide who is deported?

 

[olds]

If we had no illegal immigrants in this country you'd be paying $5 for a tomato.
If americans were picking them they'd be unionized and making $17 an hour.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: audi

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: PanzerIV
No. There are a lot of US born worthless POS that should be deported before they are. At least these kids have potential.

I agree. Let's deport some of the dregs of our society and allow in people that will actually work hard.

do you honestly believe that? if so, who should decide who is deported?

Well we can't really do that since I don't think we can just deport millions of useless people.

However, I would fully support the mass immigration of talented, educated, or hard working people. It would be nice to deport many of our fat, useless, uneducated turds, but that would probably cause great concern globally.

We should close down the border and then massively raise legal immigration numbers.

 

[skim milk]

I was an illegal immigrant for 10 years and look at me now!

 

[Ranger X]

Deport them all.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe
Again. How do we help Mexico not suck? I don't see Canadians flocking to be here.
The only way to really resolve the problem is make them not want to come here or possibly make it so it isn't the shock to our system it is.
Make citizenship easier to obtain.
Work with the Mexican government to introduce English as required curriculum.

The Government of Mexico seems to encouraget their citizens to jump the fence. Why?

Because they don't want to deal with them. Vicente Fox has his southern border sealed, God forbid America seals its southern border.

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
If we had no illegal immigrants in this country you'd be paying $5 for a tomato.
If americans were picking them they'd be unionized and making $17 an hour.

One more reason why unions suck.

Edit: Clarity

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Originally posted by: audi

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe
What good does it do to deport them? Do you think you have solved the problem?

Let's see. If you were outside wearing shorts and a tank top in freezing rain and wanted to break in to your neighbor's house so you could get out of the rain, but you *knew* that the very second you took one single step into the house, you'd be thrown back out on your ass, would you bother trying to break in?

If you discourage entry at the boarder, then reinforce that discouragement with a guarantee of being immediately deported, are you going to spend the money it takes to get across the boarder to begin with?

There may be 13 million illegals and it cost $600+ dollars to deport each. Add to that the cost of investigation. Then add the cost of doing the impossible. Not letting anynore in.

No matter what you think deportation is not the deterrent you think it is and does nothin to solve the problem.

600+ dollars? and where did you get these irrefutable facts?!

A bill that was proposed to deport illegals. Google it

 

[DorkBoy]

YES

 

[Zebo]

You own a small-business you won't want to deport them. Americans, in general, are slow, lazy and very expensive which makes it impossible to compete with huge corps who have resources to outsource. My dad sign company is perfect example. We make exit signs you see in commerical buildings all over the place, sell them to distributors like EXITRONIX, who then sell then to contractors/builders/municipalities. Well back in the early 90's some of our competitors went to Korea and China to manufacture and was able to undercut us by over 100% for basically the same product. We equalized this, first by hiring mainly mexicans and fireing all out $15-20 an hour peoples but even they got too expensive to compete. Eventually we made the move too. All our tritium for military signs is in england. All our signs are made in China now with a skeleton crew to unload and distribute the big rigs once it arrives. All mexican.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: PanzerIV
No. There are a lot of US born worthless POS that should be deported before they are. At least these kids have potential.

Amen.

 

[dragonballgtz]

Should those kids be deported?

No. They have more potential then most people in the US.

 

[Zebo]

How do we help Mexico not suck? I

Redistribution of wealth of course. Some people call it "empowerment" but all that means is redistribution of something. Even a small business or FHA loan is redistribution. Mexico has plenty of Billionaires and most mired in poverty. Why?

Because here's how the real world works as proven time again thoughout history even here in the USA in the robber barren era and the 1930's again and about to be proven again. Unregulated capitalism moves wealth from the labor that creates it to the owners who accumulate it. A fair "original distribution" would divide the profit between the labor that produces it, and the ownership that organizes and manages the operation. If that is how it actually worked everything would be great. right!

But that's not how it works. When dealing with a landless and destitute workforce, owners tend to get it all by thier control of capital. And thier control of capital enables them to control politics, slash benefits, pay subsistance wages and eventually you have a work force fighting for staving wages because there's more workers than capital. You get what we had in the early 1930's and Mexico has today, namely a depression economy, where demand has disappeared down the toilet of economic collapse. Owners have succeeded in "getting it all" and no one is employed. Like mexico.

Thus in any economy where one side of the equation reaps all of the surplus of labor, and the other side is left with barely enough to get by, the trajectory is toward a world where almost all of a society's productive assets are controlled by a small elite who then work to make sure that things stay just the way they are. What you get is fabulous wealth on the one hand, and destitution and misery on the other. You get economic stagnation and political repression because for wealthy elites in such a lobsided economy, they have no where to go but down.

The way to fix this is to establish mechanisms to move wealth from the top back to the bottom. One simple way to do that is labor unions. The other simple solution is progressive taxation. Lo and behold, our modestly unionized, progressively taxed economy from the end of the war into the mid-1970's was just amazingly prosperous almost to the bottom of society. Lo and behold, every richest country has capitalism with strong socialistic undertones.

 

[yllus]

Don't deport them you dorks. 😛 If they come from nothing and have proved that capable, you want them in the country. America is what it is because it's such an irresistible draw for the smartest and wiliest. You should be handing them citizenships instead and welcoming them to go forth in the U.S. of A with everything the nation has to offer them.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Zebo

How do we help Mexico not suck? I

Redistribution of wealth of course. Some people call it "empowerment" but all that means is redistribution of something. Even a small business or FHA loan is redistribution. Mexico has plenty of Billionaires and most mired in poverty. Why?

Because here's how the real world works as proven time again thoughout history even here in the USA in the robber barren era and the 1930's again and about to be proven again. Unregulated capitalism moves wealth from the labor that creates it to the owners who accumulate it. A fair "original distribution" would divide the profit between the labor that produces it, and the ownership that organizes and manages the operation. If that is how it actually worked everything would be great. right!

But that's not how it works. When dealing with a landless and destitute workforce, owners tend to get it all by thier control of capital. And thier control of capital enables them to control politics, slash benefits, pay subsistance wages and eventually you have a work force fighting for staving wages because there's more workers than capital. You get what we had in the early 1930's and Mexico has today, namely a depression economy, where demand has disappeared down the toilet of economic collapse. Owners have succeeded in "getting it all" and no one is employed. Like mexico.

Thus in any economy where one side of the equation reaps all of the surplus of labor, and the other side is left with barely enough to get by, the trajectory is toward a world where almost all of a society's productive assets are controlled by a small elite who then work to make sure that things stay just the way they are. What you get is fabulous wealth on the one hand, and destitution and misery on the other. You get economic stagnation and political repression because for wealthy elites in such a lobsided economy, they have no where to go but down.

The way to fix this is to establish mechanisms to move wealth from the top back to the bottom. One simple way to do that is labor unions. The other simple solution is progressive taxation. Lo and behold, our modestly unionized, progressively taxed economy from the end of the war into the mid-1970's was just amazingly prosperous almost to the bottom of society. Lo and behold, every richest country has capitalism with strong socialistic undertones.

I enjoyed reading that...does Mexico have a significantly less socialist system and/or lacking in much of the way of progressive taxation?

 

[IGBT]

..I'am not going to blame anybody here or elsewhere looking for a job..but an employer who breaks the law by hiring illegal labor needs to go to jail.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Yes, because the US' immigration right now is farcical, and a total joke. To legally get here and stay here requires a lot of effort and money, but if you hop the border through some farmer's fence you find out that Bush is more apt to give you amnesty than anything else. 11 million illegals in this country...two million more/year. And while the fools want to save a buck on their frozen chicken, they are meanwhile paying for emergency services and health care of illegals who pay no tax revenue.

yeah! skoorb could have floated across the border in a barrel but he didn't! he came here legally and if i remember right it was a complete pain! if he can do it, why should some dude be able to float over in a styrofoam box and stay!

that's the wisest thing i've seen you say skoorb, very good job.

 

[rufruf44]

Don't even need to deport them. Just cut off their reason to come to the US to begin with. Fine business that employs them with huge fine (50K per violation) and prevent them from getting any social services and assistance. Coupled that with not giving out citizenship to anyone who's parents are illegals, you've pretty much limited the benefit they'll gain in coming to this country.

Now whether congress/lawmakers has the guts to implement such tough law and risk hispanics voters wrath as well as losing business's support, is another story.

 

[PlasticJesus]

This is kind of a timely question. I was doing some work out in the oil fields around Rio Bravo TX Wednesday. It's brush country like you see on TV. Was sitting in my truck and on the cell with my co-worker when a no-doubt illegal came out of the brush and gestured to me with his empty water containers. Empty water bottles, Gatorade bottles, or whatever he had found on the way I guess. Raggedy tennis shoes, no socks, raggedy shorts and T-shirt and looked like he was about to die. I don't work for the Border Patrol, so gave him a bottle of water and he snuck back in to the brush.

Illegals are illegal, but I'd prefer to see them here illegally than to see those who sit on their fat asses and collect SSI because they have diabetes or some such crap. I'm not sure you'll find illegals putting gasoline on their damn Lone Star cards. Maybe illegals are a burden medically, but hell, half the folks of South Texas are Medicaid types.

Was on a bus to PA when we made a stop in Bay St. Louis, MS. The bus was nothing but Mexicans. Border Patrol showed up and had everyone claim their baggage. Had everybody pull out an I.D. All the guys pull out passports. Border Patrol guy is holding in his hand the passport of the guy next to me when his cell rings. I figure it's his work phone. He's on the phone holding someone else's passport. What does he say on the phone? He says "You'll have to ask your mother about that". That's who's gonna' stop illegals; the guy who can't separate his work and his personal life. Damn jackass. I think if you're an obviously white American you should be able to tell them to fvck off. Everybody on the bus was legal.

edit for spelling