Ignorance in America (And Beyond)

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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
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Author of the article herself might have a problem with being "incredibly ill-informed".

Viz:

4. Unemployment: Americans over-estimate that nearly 32.1% of the working age population is unemployed when the actual figure is much lower at 6%-- a perception gap of -26.1 points.

Compared to:

The grinding pace of recovery has hollowed out the workforce. Government data showed that only 63.2 percent of working-age Americans have a job or are looking for one, the lowest proportion since 1978
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...6820dc-16ef-11e3-a2ec-b47e45e6f8ef_story.html

The 36.8% number above is from 2013 which might be a tad high considering some improved employment numbers recently. So, I'd say those in the survey were far more accurate than the author.

If she wanted the E3 number she should have phrased it much differently.

And numbers 8 & 9 shouldn't even be on a "fail" list as those are pretty damn accurate.

Edit: I didn't check the other numbers she cited.

Fern
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,727
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Just pulling bullshit out of your ass then ?

This list says we rank 22nd out of 30 countries in the amount of hours spent reading.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/55344/which-country-reads-most?bypass=1

This article says Americans aged 35-49 watch about 33 hours.

http://m.nydailynews.com/life-style/average-american-watches-5-hours-tv-day-article-1.1711954#bmb=1

This study says Americans rank 19 out of 25 for countries whose citizens travel the most outside of their home country.

https://timetric.com/info/media-cen...timetric-reveals-which-countries-travel-most/
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
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yeah, I don't even much these days, I used to go the the library and read 5 or 6 books a week, but I guess I haven't even been to one in years.

Reading is a bit relevant to where a bit these days.

I guess I watch a lot of movies rather than TV.

Travel won't even go into, I'd get long winded :)

In general I'd agree.
 
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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
If you really don't think Fox News is a heavy influence in promoting American ignorance, then let me shove just today's instance in your face: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2407800

Most all mass media promotes fear, promoting ignorance, but Fox New is THE WORST, HANDS DOWN, amongst major media players.

Your either stupid or intellectually dishonest twisting of what I wrote is a prime example of such arrant ignorance.

I am pretty sure Ted Cruz is not Fox News.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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This list says we rank 22nd out of 30 countries in the amount of hours spent reading.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/55344/which-country-reads-most?bypass=1

This article says Americans aged 35-49 watch about 33 hours.

http://m.nydailynews.com/life-style/average-american-watches-5-hours-tv-day-article-1.1711954#bmb=1

This study says Americans rank 19 out of 25 for countries whose citizens travel the most outside of their home country.

https://timetric.com/info/media-cen...timetric-reveals-which-countries-travel-most/
That travel one is bullshit. Most of those nations are the size of a state at best; it's hard to travel to a different clime without leaving the nation. Hell, just falling asleep on the train would do it. We can easily travel a thousand miles without leaving our nation - and meet representatives of every one of those nations. (The smart ones, who came here.)

Besides, we're bordered by Mexico and Canada. We already have more Mexicans than any one person could ever meet, not to mention great Mexican food without getting Montezuma's revenge. And Canadians are just like us anyway, except duller and more tame. ;)
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,727
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That travel one is bullshit. Most of those nations are the size of a state at best; it's hard to travel to a different clime without leaving the nation. Hell, just falling asleep on the train would do it. We can easily travel a thousand miles without leaving our nation - and meet representatives of every one of those nations. (The smart ones, who came here.)

Besides, we're bordered by Mexico and Canada. We already have more Mexicans than any one person could ever meet, not to mention great Mexican food without getting Montezuma's revenge. And Canadians are just like us anyway, except duller and more tame. ;)

It's not about why we don't travel, your points are correct in that aspect (you will note that in that link, we ranked 2nd in traveling domestically), what matters is experiencing other cultures and we fail at that regardless of the reason.
 

Belegost

Golden Member
Feb 20, 2001
1,807
19
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It's probably worth pointing out the rest of the article, where they discuss how people fared across countries. It seems the misconceptions are fairly common:

1. Teenage birth rates: on average, people across the 14 countries think that 15% of teenagers aged 15-19 give birth each year. This is 12 times higher than the average official estimate of 1.2% across these countries. But other countries with very low rates of teenage births are further out proportionally: for example, Germans think that 14% of teenage girls give birth each year when it’s actually only 0.4% (35x the actual figure).

2. Muslims: people across just about all countries hugely overestimate the proportion of their population that are Muslim: the average guess across the countries is 16% when the actual proportion is 3%. For example, on average people in France think 31% of the population is Muslim, when the actual figure is only 8%. In Australia the average guess is nine times the actual proportion: people estimate it at 18%, when the actual proportion is only 2%.

3. Christians: in contrast, majority-Christian countries tend to underestimate how many people count themselves as Christian. In the 12 majority-Christian countries in the survey, the average guess is 51%, when the actual proportion counting themselves as Christians is 61%. This includes countries like the US where people think 56% are Christian when official data shows it is 78%.

4. Immigration: across the 14 countries, the public think immigration is over twice the actual level – the average guess is that 24% of the population was born abroad, when the actual figure is 11%. This includes some massive overestimates: the US public think 32% of the population are immigrants when the actual is 13%; in Italy the public think 30% are immigrants when it’s actually 7%; and in Belgium the public think it’s 29% when it’s actually 10%.

5. Ageing population: we think the population is much older than it actually is – the average estimate is that 39% of the population is 65+, when only 18% are. Italians are particularly wrong on this – on average, they think nearly half the population (48%) are 65+, when it is actually 21%.

6. Voting: every country in the study underestimates the proportion of the electorate who voted in their last major election. The average guess is that 58% voted, when in fact 72% did. The French in particular are too pessimistic about the extent of democratic engagement: estimating that only 57% of the electorate voted in the Presidential election, when in fact 80% did.

7. Unemployment: people tend to greatly overestimate the extent of unemployment in their countries. The average guess is 30%, when the actual figure is 9%. This includes some huge overestimates, for example in Italy, where the average guess is that 49% are unemployed, compared with an actual rate of 12%.

8. Life expectancy: this is one area where on average we have a much better grasp of reality. Across the 14 countries, the average life expectancy for a child born this year is estimated to be 80 years, when across these countries as a whole it’s actually 81 years. However, there is still a wide range between countries: people in South Korea are too optimistic, expecting the average life expectancy to be 89 years, compared with an actual of 80 years; but Hungarians are too pessimistic, only expecting 68 years, when the average is predicted to be 75 years.

9. Murder rates: 49% of people across the countries think that the murder rate is rising and only 27% think it is falling - when in fact in all countries in the study, the murder rate is actually falling. The British are the most likely to have an accurate view of murder rate trends: 49% think it’s falling and only 25% think it’s rising.

Seems like people in the US may be farther off in the numerical estimate, but are consistent with the direction of mis-estimation with those from other countries in the study. And for many questions other countries showed worse performance than the US.

Overall what this shows it that human psychology naturally exaggerates the numerical importance of things that are 1) repeated and 2) tied to emotion.

So, worries about larger portions of the population retiring are repeated frequently, and since most people expect to retire some day it's something to has an emotional component. Similarly with murder rates, most people hear about a murder occurring somewhere on an almost daily basis, and obviously death is an emotionally rich topic, so it's unsurprising people tend to over-estimate murder rates.

While I agree that the media feeds this by playing to emotion in order to grab attention, the effect would still occur if that was not true simply because the topics covered are ones that naturally have emotion attached.
 

doubledeluxe

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2014
1,074
1
0
Having lived in a few countries and spent time in a lot more I can pretty much concur with the results. Italy in particular is extra stupid though because of their media. I remember watching the news and Berlusconi would get on and tell the country that everything is fine and they don't need any help from the ECB. Then the next day they would take a 150 billion Euro loan or something. Ridiculous. Complete propaganda and lie driven media.

Now here I can't possibly blame Foxnews for everything. That's ridiculous. The US suffers from a multipronged attack on our intellect. First you have all the media. Fox attacks Americans on the right. MSNBC attacks the left. CNN is terrible. ABC is terrible. They all pretty much use scare tactics and one sided reporting to give opinion pieces rather than the news. I used to have a collection of screen shots from different headlines and comparing them over time is rather humorous. Today everything is in big bold crazy scary letters and we're led to believe that everything should be a panic. OMG OBAMACARE! BENGAZI! EBOLA! IMMIGRATION! STOCK MARKET! FLU! Everything. Fox news currently has a big headline about Islamic radicalism. Feel free to Google what the headlines on CNN and Foxnews looked like on Sept 11. Granted there's a difference in HTML and formatting but just compare the hype.

Worse is talk radio. Rush has over 13 million listeners each week. The Sean Hannity 12.5 million. Glenn Beck 7 million. These radio shows provide no real insight into anything. They are all garbage propaganda pieces for one side or the other.

Considering that only 130 million Americans voted it really doesn't take long to influence a vast majority.

Ultimately though there has to be more. Talk to a 18 year old in another country and they are vastly more mature and can hold a much more intelligent conversation than one of us at the same age. Talk to a 25 year old. Same thing. These are all voting age adults. Foreigners also appear far more eager to ask questions rather than just regurgitating sound bites from mass media. The one exception being during the Bush years where every other country on Earth was driving me crazy with `Bush is a monkey`.

Just look at any issue today. Americans cannot look at anything objectively. Everything is seen through the spectrum of their chosen persuasion - left or right.
 

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
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I don't know about any of those other numbers..but the unemployment figure is dead wrong.
It probably IS in reality 20-ish percent.
What Obama calls "unemployed"=collecting unemployment.
What I call "unemployed"=dey took er jobs!
One factor is that people don't read anymore.
Another factor is that fewer people actually write anything nowadays.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
It's not about why we don't travel, your points are correct in that aspect (you will note that in that link, we ranked 2nd in traveling domestically), what matters is experiencing other cultures and we fail at that regardless of the reason.
But we're America; people from other cultures come here. Just today I've spoken with immigrants from South Africa, Germany, and Mexico.
 

doubledeluxe

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2014
1,074
1
0
That travel one is bullshit. Most of those nations are the size of a state at best; it's hard to travel to a different clime without leaving the nation. Hell, just falling asleep on the train would do it. We can easily travel a thousand miles without leaving our nation - and meet representatives of every one of those nations. (The smart ones, who came here.)

Besides, we're bordered by Mexico and Canada. We already have more Mexicans than any one person could ever meet, not to mention great Mexican food without getting Montezuma's revenge. And Canadians are just like us anyway, except duller and more tame. ;)

This is a cop out. Traveling outside of the US is easy and more of us should do it. You can travel internationally with the budget airlines for very cheap.

46% of Americans have passports. That alone is a travesty. However I am very defensive of us as travelers due to the size and beauty of our country. Either way though don't come up with excuses. Fact is that too few of us travel to countries other than Mexico and Canada.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
This list says we rank 22nd out of 30 countries in the amount of hours spent reading.
-snip-

yeah, I don't even much these days, I used to go the the library and read 5 or 6 books a week, but I guess I haven't even been to one in years.
-snip-

Reading?

I see no reason to believe that the info one attains from reading books is any more accurate or honest than what one reads on the internet or sees elsewhere, assuming we're discussing non-fiction.

Fern
 
Nov 25, 2013
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11,718
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Reading?

I see no reason to believe that the info one attains from reading books is any more accurate or honest than what one reads on the internet or sees elsewhere, assuming we're discussing non-fiction.

Fern

This was written as a serious statement?
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,927
10,791
147
This was written as a serious statement?

A prime candidate for self-ownage of the year.

The most pathetic part is that he'll never understand why that's so, and his ideological buddies will likely prove in subsequent posts that they don't get it, as well. :(
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,727
17,377
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Reading?

I see no reason to believe that the info one attains from reading books is any more accurate or honest than what one reads on the internet or sees elsewhere, assuming we're discussing non-fiction.

Fern

Where was this claim made that said otherwise?
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
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A prime candidate for self-ownage of the year.

The most pathetic part is that he'll never understand why that's so, and his ideological buddies will likely prove in subsequent posts that they don't get it, as well. :(

Quite frankly I find it beyond comprehension and I'll leave it at that.
 

doubledeluxe

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2014
1,074
1
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If anyone is unsure on the reliability of the internet look no further than the revisions done to the Wikipedia entry on the Iraq war.
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
17
81
Quite frankly I find it beyond comprehension and I'll leave it at that.

i think he was actually adding on to what you said (by quoting you),

i think he was agreeing with you about another persons post (not understanding how reading, by default, makes a person, less ignorant.)
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,927
10,791
147
i think he was actually adding on to what you said (by quoting you),

i think he was agreeing with you about another persons post (not understanding how reading, by default, makes a person, less ignorant.)

Mr Gray was agreeing with me agreeing with him (seriously), while politely declining to further slag the poster whose post we were both incredulous about, as befits a fine Victorian gentleman.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
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I'm just not sure why some of the most obviously unread people on this forum are trying to bash someone else for it.
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
17
81
Mr Gray was agreeing with me agreeing with him (seriously), while politely declining to further slag the poster whose post we were both incredulous about, as befits a fine Victorian gentleman.

this too, is what i gathered.

it's all about the spin....i could read some non fiction about ww2 and spin it to sound like Hitler was a modest, honest, impeccable, leader of noble Germany, and a man's man..

Another fellow could take that same non fiction, and spin it to sound like he was warlord who conquered relentlessly and gassed some folks.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,366
10,676
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Just look at any issue today. Americans cannot look at anything objectively. Everything is seen through the spectrum of their chosen persuasion - left or right.

Is it possible for P&N to highlight objective discussion of these topics?