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If you're religious

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Guys, he's trying to point out flaws in the idea of an "all-loving god", but the fact is, all religions are inconsistent, and we could rant about these inconsistencies for hours, and it would never convince a single religious nut to think rationally.
 
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: barfo
How do you justify the millions of people that don't have a chance for salvation, just because they weren't born in a place where they would be taught to worship your god?
Click to expand...

Evangelization has already reached the four corners of the Earth.

Is it god's fault that all these people are condemning themselves? or is it the humanity for not embracing your religion without question? or maybe it's their own fault for not embracing the foreign true faith, despite what their parents and grandparents taught them?
Click to expand...

Atheism is unfortunately on the rise for several reasons. You have stupid reasons like that zeitgeist crap which confuses and misdirects, and then you have more obvious reasons like people being too lazy these days to go to church, or the fact thats its easier to embrace a freewheeling lifestyle of sin, mastrubation, drug use, fornication, sloth, envy, greed, etc.

Whats funny are the lazy ones who think a deathbed confession is going to save them. It isnt. 🙁
Click to expand...

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. If you aren't, it's a pretty funny imitation, if you are, I invoke poe's law.
 
Originally posted by: barfo
How do you justify the millions of people that don't have a chance for salvation, just because they weren't born in a place where they would be taught to worship your god?

Is it god's fault that all these people are condemning themselves? or is it the humanity for not embracing your religion without question? or maybe it's their own fault for not embracing the foreign true faith, despite what their parents and grandparents taught them?
Click to expand...

Ever heard of missionaries?? Ever wonder why they do their missionary work in other countries??? :roll:
 
The answer is that its not my place to worry about that. Once I have attained complete righteousness, then maybe I will be able to answer these kinds of questions. As for right now, I have my own spiritual battles to fight.
 
Originally posted by: Crono
Originally posted by: barfo
I'm not claiming to be better than god,and I agree he'd see things more clearly. The problem is, which religion is the true one? cause all of them preach different things.
I was raised a catholic, should I just abide by it and brace myself in case Allah turns out to be the real god and I realize I'm doomed when I die?
Click to expand...

It's not about you choosing your god, though, it's about God choosing you. Read Romans when you have the time. If you are aware of your own sinfulness, you believe in the God of the Bible and that He sent His Son, Jesus, to die in your place, and you repent (means to turn away from, to go on a different path) of your sins, you will be saved.

Salvation comes by the grace of God, through the hearing of God's word and faith in Him. Not by works, not by money, not by any other means.
Click to expand...

That depends on one's belief good sir. Salvation in the christian sense, and by what means, is what separates many of these faiths and I'm sure you know that.
 
Originally posted by: videogames101
Guys, he's trying to point out flaws in the idea of an "all-loving god", but the fact is, all religions are inconsistent, and we could rant about these inconsistencies for hours, and it would never convince a single religious nut to think rationally.
Click to expand...

Or possibly it could present many different viewpoints and have an honest frank discussion on man, his history and desire to quest for truth and reach to the "heavens".

A religious rational man understands this and seeks to understand what he cannot with some spiritual guidance to form a basis of his understanding.

Ignorance is such a powerful tool of fools.
 
Originally posted by: barfo

I know they're all different, but the major ones seem to be like "We're the true faith and if you don't embrace us you'll doom yourself forever, no matter if you were a good man who did no one harm in your whole life".
Click to expand...

This is not true of Buddhism, nor Hinduism, nor Taoism; in fact they believe pretty much the opposite. You need to learn to differentiate between religion, in general, and Christianity, which is really the group you mean to be addressing with this question (Muslims believe this too, obviously).

This is why Christians and Muslims cannot co-exist on the same planet without desperatly trying to eradicate each other, and Hindus, Taoists and Buddhists pretty much get along just fine.
 
Originally posted by: barfo
How do you justify the millions of people that don't have a chance for salvation, just because they weren't born in a place where they would be taught to worship your god?

Is it god's fault that all these people are condemning themselves? or is it the humanity for not embracing your religion without question? or maybe it's their own fault for not embracing the foreign true faith, despite what their parents and grandparents taught them?
Click to expand...

This is obviously directed to Christians. I'm not a Christian and my faith easily allows for that - they have their own separate judgments.

Originally posted by: Psynaut
Originally posted by: barfo

I know they're all different, but the major ones seem to be like "We're the true faith and if you don't embrace us you'll doom yourself forever, no matter if you were a good man who did no one harm in your whole life".
Click to expand...

This is not true of Buddhism, nor Hinduism, nor Taoism; in fact they believe pretty much the opposite. You need to learn to differentiate between religion, in general, and Christianity, which is really the group you mean to be addressing with this question (Muslims believe this too, obviously).

This is why Christians and Muslims cannot co-exist on the same planet without desperatly trying to eradicate each other, and Hindus, Taoists and Buddhists pretty much get along just fine.
Click to expand...

No they don't.
 
This thread reminds me of playing Civilization IV, where I desperately try and stomp out Christianity and Islam while trying to get to Buddhism first. Anyone know if there is a "BURN IT TO THE GROUND" option for your cities?
 
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: barfo
How do you justify the millions of people that don't have a chance for salvation, just because they weren't born in a place where they would be taught to worship your god?
Click to expand...

Evangelization has already reached the four corners of the Earth.

Is it god's fault that all these people are condemning themselves? or is it the humanity for not embracing your religion without question? or maybe it's their own fault for not embracing the foreign true faith, despite what their parents and grandparents taught them?
Click to expand...

Atheism is unfortunately on the rise for several reasons. You have stupid reasons like that zeitgeist crap which confuses and misdirects, and then you have more obvious reasons like people being too lazy these days to go to church, or the fact thats its easier to embrace a freewheeling lifestyle of sin, mastrubation, drug use, fornication, sloth, envy, greed, etc.

Whats funny are the lazy ones who think a deathbed confession is going to save them. It isnt. 🙁
Click to expand...

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. If you aren't, it's a pretty funny imitation, if you are, I invoke poe's law.
Click to expand...

Oh Im quite serious, but Im trying to keep the tone down for the sake of civility. 🙂
 
OP's question is interesting when applied to mainstream Christianity (not including Catholicism)

In earlier times in the church, it was thought that people that never heard the gospel message would simply be doomed to hell. While I'm sure some Christians still hold to this interpretation, I don't think it is quite so prevalent today.

I have a feeling most Christians today would respond with something like this: "If they never heard the gospel message, they would be judged on the decisions they made in response to the Holy Spirit acting on their heart". I've heard versions of this several times and seems to be the standard belief currently.

This avoids the concept of an uncaring or unfair god as everyone essentially "gets a chance". Most people today aren't callous enough to admit belief in a god that would effectively punish someone to eternal damnation based on the logistics of their birth.

And here is where the real questions are. If people can achieve salvation essentially on their own, then for what purpose does the bible, prayer, church, etc. exist? And taking it further, why does the Christianity exist if it isn't needed to be saved?

To answer my own questions: for no reasons. If you can be saved by your own piety regardless of your background or beliefs, then Christianity essentially is eviscerated of any usefulness or relevance.

Christianity has a choice between a god that is unfair and a god that simply doesn't care what you believe. You're either born into royalty or you are judged by your own individual merits.
 
Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: spidey07
You don't know much about religion. They all have their different means of salvation or enlightenment.
Click to expand...

rule #2, don't respond to an obvious troll thread with what could be considered a thought out reply.
Click to expand...

fixed

rule #1 is don't talk about troll threads
 
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
This thread reminds me of playing Civilization IV, where I desperately try and stomp out Christianity and Islam while trying to get to Buddhism first. Anyone know if there is a "BURN IT TO THE GROUND" option for your cities?
Click to expand...

This post makes this whole thread worthwhile.
 
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
This thread reminds me of playing Civilization IV, where I desperately try and stomp out Christianity and Islam while trying to get to Buddhism first. Anyone know if there is a "BURN IT TO THE GROUND" option for your cities?
Click to expand...

:laugh::thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
Originally posted by: elmer92413
You need to read Dante's Divine Comedy.
Circle I - Limbo
/thread
Click to expand...

Everyone should read the Divine Comedy. I read Inferno for an English class and it was fucking awesome - only the people who couldn't read it said it was stupid.
Click to expand...

There should be a modern adaptation of the DC. Too many of the people Dante mentions are politicians from his era. IT would be interesting to have someone put down modern day douchebags that belong in each specific circle of hell
Click to expand...

I agree completely. We actually had that as an assignment in one of my high school English classes. Just an essay, but we had to write an updated portion of The Inferno. It was neat.


Also, waffles >> pancakes.

On topic. ... f it.
 
Originally posted by: Crono
Originally posted by: barfo
I'm not claiming to be better than god,and I agree he'd see things more clearly. The problem is, which religion is the true one? cause all of them preach different things.
I was raised a catholic, should I just abide by it and brace myself in case Allah turns out to be the real god and I realize I'm doomed when I die?
Click to expand...

It's not about you choosing your god, though, it's about God choosing you. Read Romans when you have the time. If you are aware of your own sinfulness, you believe in the God of the Bible and that He sent His Son, Jesus, to die in your place, and you repent (means to turn away from, to go on a different path) of your sins, you will be saved.

Salvation comes by the grace of God, through the hearing of God's word and faith in Him. Not by works, not by money, not by any other means.
Click to expand...

Just a quick question for you, I am not trying to troll, I'm jw.

From studying the greek orgin of repent, it seems, as you pointed out, that it means to change your ways, even though most people think it means more along the lines of confess.

So lets say someone beleives in Christ, changes his ways from Y to X, according to the bible he is saved. (Baring those that believe baptism is required, just for sake of argument)

Now what about a man who has never heard the word but has lived life X anyways? What happens then?
 
Originally posted by: lifeobry
OP's question is interesting when applied to mainstream Christianity (not including Catholicism)

In earlier times in the church, it was thought that people that never heard the gospel message would simply be doomed to hell. While I'm sure some Christians still hold to this interpretation, I don't think it is quite so prevalent today.

I have a feeling most Christians today would respond with something like this: "If they never heard the gospel message, they would be judged on the decisions they made in response to the Holy Spirit acting on their heart". I've heard versions of this several times and seems to be the standard belief currently.

This avoids the concept of an uncaring or unfair god as everyone essentially "gets a chance". Most people today aren't callous enough to admit belief in a god that would effectively punish someone to eternal damnation based on the logistics of their birth.

And here is where the real questions are. If people can achieve salvation essentially on their own, then for what purpose does the bible, prayer, church, etc. exist? And taking it further, why does the Christianity exist if it isn't needed to be saved?

To answer my own questions: for no reasons. If you can be saved by your own piety regardless of your background or beliefs, then Christianity essentially is eviscerated of any usefulness or relevance.

Christianity has a choice between a god that is unfair and a god that simply doesn't care what you believe. You're either born into royalty or you are judged by your own individual merits.
Click to expand...

Not to get off-topic (which this is!) since the OP just asked about general views of salvation inside/outside specific beliefs and didn't ask about the necessity of believing if one of those beliefs were to include others outside their group - but you may want to read the last 6 paragraphs here (starting with "Unfortunately..."), which kinda answers your question from a Catholic perspective (although it's an indirect answer, maybe):

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907chap.asp

Edit: to summarize, the Catholic Church teaches that the Sacraments and communion with the Church help focus and draw the believer in closer to God - I guess via the grace of the Holy Spirit, which acts through the Church and her Sacraments - so even though those outside of the Church aren't at all damned, it's much better to be involved than to be ignorant. So there is a logical reason! 🙂

 
Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: ruu
Facepalm. Wtf? If OP wants serious replies, take it to P&N. Christ.
Click to expand...
What does religion have to do with either politics or news?
Click to expand...

Because P&N is where the claws come out, not in OT and religious threads always put the cats in heat and let it loose.
 
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