If you were Nvidia, what would you have done?

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: sandorski
If I was Nvidia, I think I'd start firing people. This last year has been a real fiasco and something seems to be really wrong with Nvidia. I think they thought they were comfortably ahead of the game and became too laid back thinking no one could catch them. ATI proved them wrong, but instead of facing reality it seems Nvidia just thought it could appeal to their fans and that their good past reputation would maintain their good standing. When their appeals began to ring hollow they panicked and began to talk like everything was under control, when that rang hollow they began to Fudge the Numbers with "optomizations and talking smack about anyone who dared to challenge them. If they don't shut up, fess up, and get back to designing good GPUs, they'll soon be talking to their lawyers about Chapter 11.

OMG, I am LOL! You can't make this stuff up! Golden. You sir are definite Dilbert material. "Per management directive, the floggings will continue until morale improves".

Yep, the secret to any company gaining the upperhand in a product performance driven market is to demoralize the workforce, and disenchant all who would consider coming aboard...hmmm, you wouldn't happen to really be Carly Fiorina under an assumed handle, would you?

(Take as a joke, nothing personal)

I have no idea who that person is.

I know I was being a little bit of a drama queen, it's just that it all started with FutureMark, carried through websites proving that common games used for benchmarking, and now HL2. Through every controversy Nvidia has maintained that nothing is going on, attacked those exposing the truth, and delaying by announcing upcoming drivers. Kinda reminds me of this whole Iraq War justification circus, but that's for another forum.

 

[mrgoblin]

If I were nvidia, i would have made a better card

 

[MDE]

Fire any and all ex-3Dfx employees and their supporters in the company.

 

[een]

Merge with ATI, and becomes the next Microsoft...

 

[mrgoblin]

Originally posted by: een
Merge with ATI, and becomes the next Microsoft...

Well all theyd have to do then is steal because they already did the lie/cheat thing.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: een
Merge with ATI, and becomes the next Microsoft...

Where is the competition in that and what will ATI get for the merger s ince they are ahead right now?

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: AgaBooga

Originally posted by: Czar
skipped the cg code crap for a generation or two and make damn sure it was a part of "any" standard before releasing a card

make sure the darn card complies with todays standards

silently admit that ATI won this round and not sacrifice visual quality in drivers unless there is an on off button for it

never ever cheated in benchmarks

focus PR on upcoming nforce3

I think that is the best and most covering answer to many of the aspects of Nvidia

I agree...This should be on their report card for the last year along with a D+......

 

[OverVolt]

i would drop the Video Card business and start making leaf blowers

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: OverVolt
i would drop the Video Card business and start making leaf blowers

I think they've already gotten started on that, they even have a commercial made!

 

[Alkali]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: AgaBooga

Originally posted by: Czar
skipped the cg code crap for a generation or two and make damn sure it was a part of "any" standard before releasing a card

make sure the darn card complies with todays standards

silently admit that ATI won this round and not sacrifice visual quality in drivers unless there is an on off button for it

never ever cheated in benchmarks

focus PR on upcoming nforce3

I think that is the best and most covering answer to many of the aspects of Nvidia

I agree...This should be on their report card for the last year along with a D+......

I agree too, this is the most complete answer here. However...

1. nVidia actually needs to admit sacrificing IQ, and allow an option in the drivers for 'fast 16-bit Precision' or 'quality 32-bit Precision'.
2. nVidia actually needs to admit being too far ahead of the specs (they built a card with too high a precision mode for the generation).
3. nVidia lastly needs to change strategy with this generation, stop messing around and resting on their OEM laurels, and get out there with a 24-bit Precision, 8x1 pipeline (unless DX9.1 will sort that), card with good drivers.

The only reason we have all this fuss over drivers is because of the 16/24/32-bit precision issue. Think how bad the decision was to go for 32-bit.... The only time the 32-bit precision cards would come out on top would be if DX9.1 REQUIRED 32-bit. And that will not happen. Microsoft would not allow their DX not to be run on Ati cards.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Alkali

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: AgaBooga

Originally posted by: Czar
skipped the cg code crap for a generation or two and make damn sure it was a part of "any" standard before releasing a card

make sure the darn card complies with todays standards

silently admit that ATI won this round and not sacrifice visual quality in drivers unless there is an on off button for it

never ever cheated in benchmarks

focus PR on upcoming nforce3

I think that is the best and most covering answer to many of the aspects of Nvidia

I agree...This should be on their report card for the last year along with a D+......

I agree too, this is the most complete answer here. However...

1. nVidia actually needs to admit sacrificing IQ, and allow an option in the drivers for 'fast 16-bit Precision' or 'quality 32-bit Precision'.
2. nVidia actually needs to admit being too far ahead of the specs (they built a card with too high a precision mode for the generation).
3. nVidia lastly needs to change strategy with this generation, stop messing around and resting on their OEM laurels, and get out there with a 24-bit Precision, 8x1 pipeline (unless DX9.1 will sort that), card with good drivers.

The only reason we have all this fuss over drivers is because of the 16/24/32-bit precision issue. Think how bad the decision was to go for 32-bit.... The only time the 32-bit precision cards would come out on top would be if DX9.1 REQUIRED 32-bit. And that will not happen. Microsoft would not allow their DX not to be run on Ati cards.

...however, if the speculation is correct, they could have made it w/ 32-bit precision and more registers and gotten away with only a small hit in performance. Once again, IF the speculation is right, the problem was not 16 vs. 24 vs. 32-bit as much as it was the overall card design being based more on high through-put(sp) than crunching lots of numbers.

 

[OverVolt]

No matter what Nvidia does, i wouldn't trust them anymore. They keep lying over and over again. They should have known their cards would be DX9 compatible, yet on front of the FX5200 is "DX9 compatible" they have in small print (Only if u can stand 10FPS!)

 

[Alkali]

...however, if the speculation is correct, they could have made it w/ 32-bit precision and more registers and gotten away with only a small hit in performance. Once again, IF the speculation is right, the problem was not 16 vs. 24 vs. 32-bit as much as it was the overall card design being based more on high through-put(sp) than crunching lots of numbers.

Thankyou for reminding me, yes its all about the registers isnt it.

nVidia's card has 32-bit registers and can 'fit in' 2x16-bit or 1x32-bit to each register, but they don't have anywhere near enough registers. I remember now. Thanks man.

 

[ElFenix]

liquidated the company and sold out to a more successful competitor.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

I wonder if Nvidia is actually reading this thread, hehe

 

[wetcat007]

Originally posted by: sandorski
If I was Nvidia, I think I'd start firing people. This last year has been a real fiasco and something seems to be really wrong with Nvidia. I think they thought they were comfortably ahead of the game and became too laid back thinking no one could catch them. ATI proved them wrong, but instead of facing reality it seems Nvidia just thought it could appeal to their fans and that their good past reputation would maintain their good standing. When their appeals began to ring hollow they panicked and began to talk like everything was under control, when that rang hollow they began to Fudge the Numbers with "optomizations and talking smack about anyone who dared to challenge them. If they don't shut up, fess up, and get back to designing good GPUs, they'll soon be talking to their lawyers about Chapter 11.

i dont think they are going to become bankrupt over this, they make more than computer gpu's

 

[dmw16]

Bought an ATi video card

Seriously tho...I'd try to figure out what was going wrong. Then be honest with the public and see if there is any way to correct the situation. Also, I would try and work more closely w/ developers.

 

[mrgoblin]

WHat I would do is try to get some guys from ati and see what their marketing characteristics are. See you cant go about having the slowest card that costs more than the competition. I think nvidia would find a niche if it would position its card siginifigantly lower than ati to become the price/performance king. This plays into the amd sector as they make the mobos too so why not have an nvidia system? I think if the 5900ultra cost 350 at launch, it would have been the best card on the market for the price.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: wetcat007

Originally posted by: sandorski
If I was Nvidia, I think I'd start firing people. This last year has been a real fiasco and something seems to be really wrong with Nvidia. I think they thought they were comfortably ahead of the game and became too laid back thinking no one could catch them. ATI proved them wrong, but instead of facing reality it seems Nvidia just thought it could appeal to their fans and that their good past reputation would maintain their good standing. When their appeals began to ring hollow they panicked and began to talk like everything was under control, when that rang hollow they began to Fudge the Numbers with "optomizations and talking smack about anyone who dared to challenge them. If they don't shut up, fess up, and get back to designing good GPUs, they'll soon be talking to their lawyers about Chapter 11.

i dont think they are going to become bankrupt over this, they make more than computer gpu's

I somewhat agree, they could become bankrupt, but I was just exagerating for effect.

Their NForce chipset is simply the best Socket A chipset out and I suspect their Athlon 64 chipsets will also be at the top. Unless they have licensed tech from it, they could also make inroads into the Audio card business if they would choose to offer the SoundStorm chip, so I think they have things to fall back on for sure. Video chips are still their bread and butter though, so they really need to get their act together.

 

[TerryMathews]

In all likelyhood, DX9.1 is going to be more friendly to the NV3x hardware. As was mentioned earlier, the problem lies more with a lack of registers (when compared to ATi DX9 parts) than any other specific problem. Supposedly, a newer version of compiler is going to not place in so many unnecessary OPs to ease some of the register squeeze.

As for what I would do if I were nVidia:
-To fix this situation
--Fire all 3dfx employees.
--Continue developing custom shader paths for specific games, but be honest about it and not sacrifice quality in the process
--Work with developers to make games more NV3x friedly without hampering ATi performance in the process. Yes, this is possible

-To regain the upper hand
--Begin work on a more traditional graphics card design. More registers, faster calc performance. Faster AA and AF since it's all the rage these days
--Work at undercutting ATi's prices with a line of relatively quick cards at $100-$150 price point. 0.13u process should be mature now, make a small core like ATi's 9600 that can clock high and many chips per wafer. Combine with wide, (relatively) slow RAM to get good memory bandwidth and a good price.
--Stop buying failing companies. They're failing for a reason.

Honestly, I think nVidia's biggest downfall was that they overestimated their pull in the market. They thought people would actually develop for Cg. And, if they had all of the problems with the NV3x would have been side-stepped. Basically, they pulled a 3dfx and history repeated itself. Only not as badly this time.

 

[Avatar007]

What is there more to say.
history repeats?

In the first days of TNT I was realy glad to see the end of Voodoo-isme.
Mainly because I had the impression Voodoo hardware was not innovative anymore, too conservative, stuck with the same architecture because 'it was prooven'.
My first over-idealistic idea of Nvidia was that of a small company, owned by some very creative engeneers, seeking for and having pleasure in designing innovative graphic hardware.
The Nvidia engeneers were loved at those days because there cards were getting better and better, in speed, quality and integration to the PC, mainly because of there new ideas. To some extend they made an evolution in the PC gaming industry, allowing games with quality and visual complexity as we know today.

But as the graph department at Nvidia's grows, more marketing people, more commercial people, more managers are beleived to be needed...
And these people, other then engeneers, don't like to admit faults cause it costs them there so loved money...

Anyway, the last week was a good thing, I loved the HL2-ATI-NVIDIA animo.

For NVidia I would say: Learn from it.
For ATI I would say: don't go to sleep