If you were a school police officer, would you confront an active shooter with a AR-15?

[YBS1]

Or would you take cover and wait for SWAT? Make your decision in 10 seconds.

Absolutely, without a doubt, 100% certain I would engage without a second thought. My thoughts would simply be what if it was my children in there. Do I want to get shot by an AR? Hell no, I don't want to get shot with a handgun or even a pellet gun for that matter, but it is what it is. I also have faith in my ability to hit my target within effective range for both handguns and rifles. Further, an active shooter is looking for targets, not necessarily watching for counterfire, you have the element of surprise in your corner, and you also have the advantage of knowing his rough location due to his previous shots, he doesn't have that on you.

 

[NetWareHead]

I'm buying an ar15 with a bump stock before it gets banned. Better safe than sorry

 

[Darwin333]

Could also pull some Kevin Vickers badass moves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4wfzWJ2Hwo

Now that is some badass John McClane shit. I love how after he performed said badass shit he "calmly walked back to his office to get another magazine for his gun". His mindset upon standing up, again after diving around a pillar and pumping his entire mag into the shooter, must have been "might be some more shit I gotta fuck up and I'm out of fucking bullets". He should never have to pay for beer again.

 

[KeithP]

Do people really think this is going to fix anything?

Sure. Look at forum posting rules. Certain subjects go in their designated forums and people don't violate those rules. Of course, a more relevant example is how well our drug laws keep narcotics out of peoples' hands. The list of examples is endless…the government need only pass a law and then people respect that. Problem solved.

-KeithP

 

[MrSquished]

Sure. Look at forum posting rules. Certain subjects go in their designated forums and people don't violate those rules. Of course, a more relevant example is how well our drug laws keep narcotics out of peoples' hands. The list of examples is endless…the government need only pass a law and then people respect that. Problem solved.

-KeithP

What rules do you propose a society have, since people just break them

 

[ImpulsE69]

What rules do you propose a society have, since people just break them

Fear of the death penalty doesn't stop people from killing....so what do you think a rule about guns is going to do? This whole misconception that regulating guns is going to make it harder for people to get them is the problem. Drugs have been regulated forever...and you don't see any problem with people getting those. Why do you think Marijuana is being legalized after all this time?

 

[MrSquished]

Fear of the death penalty doesn't stop people from killing....so what do you think a rule about guns is going to do? This whole misconception that regulating guns is going to make it harder for people to get them is the problem. Drugs have been regulated forever...and you don't see any problem with people getting those. Why do you think Marijuana is being legalized after all this time?

I guarantee you the fear of penalties prevents certain rules from being broken. There will never be a perfect society, evil exists and such is the nature of some man. But to argue that what is the point of all rules because shit can go wrong is just fucking loony tunes.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I guarantee you the fear of penalties prevents certain rules from being broken. There will never be a perfect society, evil exists and such is the nature of some man. But to argue that what is the point of all rules because shit can go wrong is just fucking loony tunes.

Of course they do. By people who aren't going to break them. The people we're talking about (murderers) are going to break them....ffs how hard is that to understand? You aren't fixing a problem, you're just opening the door to further regulation until civil liberties are gone and the only people with weapons are the government and criminals. THAT is what this discussion is about.

Look up the stats of how many people have been killed in the last 5 years due to disputes on the internet? You want to get rid of the internet too? I mean, people are dying. Terrorists plotting. Better get rid of it now because it can be used for evil. Do you even see what you are getting at? Would the world be better off without guns? Sure, if nobody had them. That isn't reality and those who want them WILL get them.

For the record I don't expect to change your mind on this, but realize you aren't going to change mine. If i actually thought guns were the root of the problem, I'd be all for more gun control, but I do not believe they are.

 

[MrSquished]

Of course they do. By people who aren't going to break them. The people we're talking about (murderers) are going to break them....ffs how hard is that to understand? You aren't fixing a problem, you're just opening the door to further regulation until civil liberties are gone and the only people with weapons are the government and criminals. THAT is what this discussion is about.

Look up the stats of how many people have been killed in the last 5 years due to disputes on the internet? You want to get rid of the internet too? I mean, people are dying. Terrorists plotting. Better get rid of it now because it can be used for evil. Do you even see what you are getting at? Would the world be better off without guns? Sure, if nobody had them. That isn't reality and those who want them WILL get them.

For the record I don't expect to change your mind on this, but realize you aren't going to change mine. If i actually thought guns were the root of the problem, I'd be all for more gun control, but I do not believe they are.

Comparing the internet to guns is really stupid. The internet provides a fundamental service to society whose primary purpose has zero to do with causing death. I could gouge your eyes out with a spoon but a spoon and a gun are far different items. Compare a gun to a car as well, stupid. All these items have primary and/or secondary purposes that are fundamentally different from killing. A gun's primary purpose is to deal death as efficiently as possible. If you can't grasp this really important, and very basic, fundamental concept then I don't know how to help you out.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Well then this conversation is over, because if that is what you think, and you actually think I don't realize that, there's not much else to say. Keep living in your dream world where law abiding citizens don't have guns and the crazies and criminals do. I know I know, we're in 'think of the children' mode. Except, the children are the problem. They'll continue to kill their classmates, whatever way is available. Your fundamental thought from A to B is flawed as is anyone's who thinks this is the path to a better world.

 

[NetWareHead]

Comparing the internet to guns is really stupid. The internet provides a fundamental service to society whose primary purpose has zero to do with causing death. I could gouge your eyes out with a spoon but a spoon and a gun are far different items. Compare a gun to a car as well, stupid. All these items have primary and/or secondary purposes that are fundamentally different from killing. A gun's primary purpose is to deal death as efficiently as possible. If you can't grasp this really important, and very basic, fundamental concept then I don't know how to help you out.

And who says death is not a good goal in the right contexts. A gun that kills an intruder shot by a homeowner, a gun that kills a criminal shot by the police etc... A gun in a soldiers hand that helps win a war or a gun used by a hunter that helps bring home dinner. What I don't get is the notion that all life is somehow sacred and death is always viewed negatively. At least that's what I'm getting from your post.

 

[MrSquished]

And who says death is not a good goal in the right contexts. A gun that kills an intruder shot by a homeowner, a gun that kills a criminal shot by the police etc... A gun in a soldiers hand that helps win a war or a gun used by a hunter that helps bring home dinner. What I don't get is the notion that all life is somehow sacred and death is always viewed negatively. At least that's what I'm getting from your post.

I never said a death is not a good goal in some contexts. I am no pacifist though I am against many military intrusions such as Iraq, there are wars that are justified. We wouldn't have freed the slaves armed with forks and spoons. My point is that a gun, unlike many other legal (but also in many cases regulated) items, have no other primary purpose than to kill organic life as efficiently as possible. A lot of people compare guns to any other inanimate object that you can use to cause harm - I've seen gun nuts compare guns to pencils, spoons, any knife, cars, trucks, planes, whatever. it runs the gamut. I think that is just plain old dumb.

 

[Paladin3]

That's not the point and you know it. If you are going to use 'mass shootings' as a reason to regulate/ban something, you damn well better be thinking about if it actually solves what you are trying to solve, especially when regulations/bans rarely have any impact. Remember the drug war? How about prohibition? Then consider you won't ever actually get all the guns that are already out there. You end up with the real criminals having them anyway. We don't need nukes, but here the world has 1000's of them. etc etc. Just because it isn't supposed to be in the world, doesn't mean it won't be.

Concentrate on the REAL problem. It isn't the guns. Take away guns, a person intent on making a statement and killing people will do it a different way. *note I don't own any guns* but I have the sense to know that isn't where the issue is.

Any solution that involves "just get rid of the guns!" in any form is wishful thinking. America loves their guns and 99.99%+ of them are never used in any kind of crime or to hurt anyone.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

"Confront" or "shoot at him until I'm out of bullets?"

Because I'd probably do the second thing. "Confront" makes it sounds like I'd be "Oh, hey, umm, could you maybe not kill people here please? This is a loading zone."

 

[Paladin3]

I never said a death is not a good goal in some contexts. I am no pacifist though I am against many military intrusions such as Iraq, there are wars that are justified. We wouldn't have freed the slaves armed with forks and spoons. My point is that a gun, unlike many other legal (but also in many cases regulated) items, have no other primary purpose than to kill organic life as efficiently as possible. A lot of people compare guns to any other inanimate object that you can use to cause harm - I've seen gun nuts compare guns to pencils, spoons, any knife, cars, trucks, planes, whatever. it runs the gamut. I think that is just plain old dumb.

I've compared guns to pointed sticks and other objects many times. It's usually in reply to someone claiming the mere presence or ownership of a gun turns a normal, law abiding person into a child killing murderer. As if the gun has an evil will of its own that a normal citizen just can't withstand.

I hear silly arguments all the time like "I would never own a gun because what if I lost my temper and started shooting people." To which I reply "if you have so little faith in your ability to be safe and responsible then you need your car, butter knives and pointed sticks taken away too." So it's usually one silly argument trying to point out the silliness of another.

Not to mention, if I put a gun, knife, pencil and spoon all on a table, none of them are going to jump up and bite you without human assistance. So we gun owners get a bit touchy when folks demonize guns to the extent that they believe gun owner = child killing murderer. That's just plain old dumb.

 

[Paladin3]

A trained LE officer with vest, radio, and handgun attempt to stop a single active shooter with an AR-15? I would hope I would.

Nothing less than turning the shooter off asap will save as many lives. I don't care if he has an AR-15 or not, it's not a magical weapon that turns the cowards who shoot up gun free school zones into an unstoppable force. How can hiding and allowing the shooting to continue ever be the correct answer?

 

[ImpulsE69]

My favorite part of today was hearing that Trump actually made the statement that if he was there he'd have gone in. I mean...RIIIGHT. SMH.

 

[MrSquished]

I've compared guns to pointed sticks and other objects many times. It's usually in reply to someone claiming the mere presence or ownership of a gun turns a normal, law abiding person into a child killing murderer. As if the gun has an evil will of its own that a normal citizen just can't withstand.

I hear silly arguments all the time like "I would never own a gun because what if I lost my temper and started shooting people." To which I reply "if you have so little faith in your ability to be safe and responsible then you need your car, butter knives and pointed sticks taken away too." So it's usually one silly argument trying to point out the silliness of another.

Not to mention, if I put a gun, knife, pencil and spoon all on a table, none of them are going to jump up and bite you without human assistance. So we gun owners get a bit touchy when folks demonize guns to the extent that they believe gun owner = child killing murderer. That's just plain old dumb.

Guns don't turn people into killers but they sure can enable them to. Comparing a gun to a pointed stick is really really stupid. A gun is far more efficient, clean and less messy when it comes to killing someone. It separates people from the gore and the actual action of killing. You don't get your hands dirty per se. It's also far more lethal and final. While a true psycho killer will use any weapon to kill, they will do it far more efficiently with a gun. Whereas a gun can turn a crime of passion can turn any given moment of weakness into a deadly spree. You also don't have friendly fire incidents with butter knives. Different things empower people to do different things. Yes, things do affect people. The logic and reason goes on.

Sorry but comparing guns to butter knives in any logical discussion is insanity and there is really no purpose in trying to achieve any civil discourse with folks who believe something so utterly stupid.

 

[MrSquished]

I believe that the vast majority of gun owners who say they would run in and save the day are just clueless. It's one thing to be good at shooting a gun in a controlled environment and being trained enough to handle a live shooter situation in a chaotic insane environment. This isn't the movies folks. Just like Trump saying he would have run in there, yes Mr. Cadet Bone Spurs, and done something, armed or not. It's all just a video game to you people.

 

[sandorski]

France is a 1st world country.

86 killed (434 injured) - A Tunisian/French Muslim man attacks the French public celebrating Bastille Day, he drives a 19 tonne cargo truck through the public on the street thereby killing indiscriminately.

150 killed - The German co-pilot, deliberately crashed the plane on the French Alps, killing all passengers and crew.

Please name me a U.S. mass shooting that killed 86-150 people. No one was stupid enough to blame trucks or planes though.

The US makes up for it in volume. What happens in any European nation in a decade is accomplished in a month or 2 in the US every year.

 

[madoka]

You are trying to compare gun violence with that of a truck or an airplane? That's pretty fucking stupid

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm buying an ar15 with a bump stock before it gets banned. Better safe than sorry

I guess advertising works. I just thought its effects would have worn off a bit during the Obama era, apparently not.

I've compared guns to pointed sticks and other objects many times. It's usually in reply to someone claiming the mere presence or ownership of a gun turns a normal, law abiding person into a child killing murderer. As if the gun has an evil will of its own that a normal citizen just can't withstand.

I hear silly arguments all the time like "I would never own a gun because what if I lost my temper and started shooting people." To which I reply "if you have so little faith in your ability to be safe and responsible then you need your car, butter knives and pointed sticks taken away too." So it's usually one silly argument trying to point out the silliness of another.

Not to mention, if I put a gun, knife, pencil and spoon all on a table, none of them are going to jump up and bite you without human assistance. So we gun owners get a bit touchy when folks demonize guns to the extent that they believe gun owner = child killing murderer. That's just plain old dumb.

The Internet today reported a sudden shortage of straw.

 

[rh71]

Obviously I wouldn't know until actually faced with it, but if I were a trained officer fully expected to act, the 2nd thing on my mind (after "holy shit I'm going to do this?!") would be to use the element of surprise - and hopefully there's just 1 of him and he's pre-occupied. That does not involve bum-rushing the guy. Locate the source of the gunfire and sneak up behind hoping for a clear shot while maintaining an escape route. Is this not obvious?

 

[Paladin3]

Guns don't turn people into killers but they sure can enable them to. Comparing a gun to a pointed stick is really really stupid. A gun is far more efficient, clean and less messy when it comes to killing someone. It separates people from the gore and the actual action of killing. You don't get your hands dirty per se. It's also far more lethal and final. While a true psycho killer will use any weapon to kill, they will do it far more efficiently with a gun. Whereas a gun can turn a crime of passion can turn any given moment of weakness into a deadly spree. You also don't have friendly fire incidents with butter knives. Different things empower people to do different things. Yes, things do affect people. The logic and reason goes on.

Sorry but comparing guns to butter knives in any logical discussion is insanity and there is really no purpose in trying to achieve any civil discourse with folks who believe something so utterly stupid.

Dude, you just TOTALLY IGNORED the reason why I said I made such a comparison. Then you imply that I don't understand the difference between a butter knife and a gun, peppering it with insults like "insanity", "utterly stupid", "really, really stupid" and such.

Do you even read comments before launching into attack mode?

At least you kind of addressed my point a bit towards the end. You seem to believe a gun is an evil, sentient object that can impose it's will on an otherwise good person to push them to kill and turn a "moment of weakness into a deadly spree." How many people do you believe to be so weak willed? Everyone? Me? You?

Well, I'm not so morally fluid that I would allow access to a gun and a "moment of weakness" to make me kill. Since you believe such tripe, maybe you should never own a gun...or a car, butter knife, pointed stick, etc.

 

[BD231]

Do any of you even realize google spell check prompts you to capitalize the word " caucasion " ? This is getting ridiculous ...

No, I would absolutely not put myself in a building full of caucasions who practice hate-craft and snitching amongst themselves and hope for the best, that's how mass shootings occur.