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If you want a decent job, fine arts degrees are useless

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Heh. When I was in university I decided to drop my practical lab course and take a intensive language course instead. I was a week or so late so the instructor warned me it'd be hard to catch up and that it was known to be one of the most time consuming language classes for the department.

I just casually said that I'm sure the lab course would have eaten up more of my time so I should have no problem. Pissed her off, but it was very true. My lab class friends were doing all nighters just to keep up with the class, but I didn't have to resort to any of that for the language class.

I'm not saying the language class was easy, because it wasn't exactly easy to get a great grade in it, but it was easy to pass. Basically you just had to show up and do some work and you'd pass. The lab class was completely different. If you just showed up and did some work but didn't have the mind for it, you'd still fail. Lots of math, and lots of precision, and even if you had that, you'd still be pulling all nighters just to keep up.
 
Doppel said:
You must be kidding.

It was widely known--not thought, but known--at my college that people who were lazy and/or less intelligent got arts degrees. Was never up for debate.

I once passed a course with a semi-decent grade by going to TWO classes over the entire semester and then pouring over a friend's notes before the final. That is simply impossible for a real course, say in chemistry or calculus.

The core credits needed for a science degree involve calculus vs, say, sociology 101.
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I have a friend who went to UPenn, took science and pre med stuff. But he is pretty much a genius. He would go to class on the first day, then show up a day or two before exams. He rarely studied and aced the exams. One professor wanted to give him a lower grade because he never showed up. He argued his way and kept the A but the professor told him if he ever took one of his classes again he wouldn't let him not show up.

The guy does the same crap now in med school. I did the same thing for an arts class and got an A. The material does not change dramatically as opposed to math or science problems which can vary each exam.
 
mmntech said:
Humanities degrees easy to get? Ahahahah, hahah, hahah, hahah, ahhh, ha, ha, uhhh, ahahaha, uh. I'm done. Wait, ahaha, okay, now I'm done. :twisted:

There's a lot of hours spent pouring through books and writing fat essays. Yes, I do foolishly have degrees in history and political science. Not saying they're worth anything but they're certainly not bird courses. I did end up going back to college though for practical hands on education. So it supplements my career but is not the basis of it.
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You're equating long hours and effort to HARD whereas others think of HARD in terms of intellectual/mental capability/performance.

I always have students in my advanced math courses coming up to me complaining about how they do poorly for the amount time time and effort they put in. I always explain to them that time and effort are not necessarily the same as thorough comprehension of a subject.
 
In truth, I found my English courses hard. English is my primary language, but I didn't grow up in a Christian household. In so much English literature are extensive references to Christian mythology that I just didn't know about. For my English class I had to get a lot of this explained to me because I didn't know much from the Bible.

But yeah, it's a very different type of "hard" than chemistry.
 
I'm thinking that it's not the degree itself and more about the student. I've heard it said many times that, "oh, I didn't know what I wanted to do, so I got a BA in psychology or sociology, just because I wanted to have a degree".

Teachers and parents keep telling you to go to college. You're 17, young, dumb, and naive as shit, then you're supposedly forced to choose what to do for the rest of your life. Oh, and all your friends are going, so like, you totally have to go too.

I chose engineering, luckily, because my friend chose it in high school and NOT going to college was never an option. Two degrees later and I'm finally thinking hard about what I want to do with the rest of my life -- not easy with a fully biologically developed brain.
 
I got a fine art degree and ended up using it professionally. However that's a little bit like going to school expecting to be a pro-sports player, make it big time as a musician, become an actor on tv/movies etc.
 
Yeah, a friend of a friend is an actress, and now has made it big and is on prime time TV. But that is the exception, not the rule.

For my kid I think I will play it by ear, and not force her to become a doctor or engineer or whatever, but will honestly tell her of the reality of some choices. If she's set on becoming a singer for example, she should be prepared to be working dingy clubs for low pay for a very long time, instead of expecting she'll be a top 10 radio hit with a platinum album at age 23.

I do know a lot of people with arts degrees that have gone onto bigger and better things not related to their degree though. Certain types of employers won't even look at you if you don't have a degree, but a humanities degree is fine even if it's not going to be directly related to the job. Depends on the position.
 
CPA said:
Agreed. I'm trying to lead my oldest to engineering or even a trade, like electrician/plumbing/construction. Anything other than a toilet paper degree.
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Getting into a trade is a smart move. Lots of engineers but somebody has to build this stuff.
 
My daughter is interested in a high income and medicine, so I told her to start taking a bunch of medications, then watch TV for the right commercial about suing for side effects.
 
Craig234 said:
If so much of our wealth didn't go to a few people, there could be more art funding.
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I agree, if so much of our wealth didn't go into the giant money sink that is the government, private philanthropists would spend much more money on funding creative endeavors by talented individuals.

Oh wait, your idea of "art funding" is most likely the government doling out (stolen) money to create "art" like this.
 
trungma said:
Getting into a trade is a smart move. Lots of engineers but somebody has to build this stuff.
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When in doubt, get a mix of both. Guys who have engineering + a trade write their own pay checks. I know people think of engineering as being a desk job, but a lot of engineers are in the field. Being able to spot problems and fix them is worth a lot.
 
The guy who fixed my stove has a masters in electrical engineering. He was a engineer back in China, and when he came to Canada he worked as an engineer but then gave that up. Why? Cuz when he first arrived he was behind in his knowledge of engineering design software, so he had to brush up on that, and he was constantly trying to keep up. Keep up he did, but then there was so much competition for medium paying jobs from younger and more energetic fresh engineering grads he just didn't think the stress was worth it.

So he got a job fixing kitchen appliances in the field under manufacturer warranties, and makes extra money on the side as an independent repair guy.

He now actually makes more than he did as an engineer now, but I suspect part the reason is he probably doesn't declare all the extra money he makes on the side as an independent contractor.
 
Doppel said:
I call them toilet paper degrees.

Kids get them because they are easy to get and the kid is lazy and/or been lied to by parents and other guidance counsellors that they should "pursue what they love". In the absence of motivation they pretend that they "love" psychology. And so they get this worthless degree.

Well it isn't that they are worthless, but they are worth far less than other degrees and not worth the time if debt is going to be high after.

Too many parents do their kids an injustice with this. I have a co-worker throwing thousands a his son's education currently in "art therapy. And you believe that? How fucking absurd. But it is true.
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There is alot of first gen college students who don't really know any better. Its kind of hard to blame them. They just literally were raised to not know any better so it never dawns on them that not every college degree = $$$. Saw it everyday in class. Meanwhile I had to put up with "Why would you take that class its hard lets go party" and shit from sociology majors or whatever the hell was easy that semester.
 
Eug said:
The guy who fixed my stove has a masters in electrical engineering. He was a engineer back in China, and when he came to Canada he worked as an engineer but then gave that up. Why? Cuz when he first arrived he was behind in his knowledge of engineering design software, so he had to brush up on that, and he was constantly trying to keep up. Keep up he did, but then there was so much competition for medium paying jobs from younger and more energetic fresh engineering grads he just didn't think the stress was worth it.

So he got a job fixing kitchen appliances in the field under manufacturer warranties, and makes extra money on the side as an independent repair guy.

He now actually makes more than he did as an engineer now, but I suspect part the reason is he probably doesn't declare all the extra money he makes on the side as an independent contractor.
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Yea if competition is fierce you are in the wrong damn field. Scientists and engineers may be smart but they apparently aren't smart enough to figure out when they are being taken advantage of.

Millennial's practically work for free they are so desperate. A federal grant for $500 gets you 20 undergraduate researcher's for a semester just killing each other to get their name on the paper.
 
OverVolt said:
There is alot of first gen college students who don't really know any better. Its kind of hard to blame them. They just literally were raised to not know any better so it never dawns on them that not every college degree = $$$. Saw it everyday in class. Meanwhile I had to put up with "Why would you take that class its hard lets go party" and shit from sociology majors or whatever the hell was easy that semester.
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Well, to be honest, I tell students to take the easiest classes possible (within reason) to get your credits and get your degree, whatever the degree is.

I see so many people aiming for honours degrees when in the vast majority of situations it really doesn't matter. Grades usually matter more than if you took one extra class, and it's easier to get a good grade if you like the class, and it's not too hard. So, I tell them to get all of the necessary requirements, and then take what you like to make your life at the university enjoyable.

I still remember this guy who wanted to go into medical school. He was a very smart guy and thought it'd be cool to do his undergrad in engineering. Not because he had any love of engineering, but just because he thought it'd be a challenge. Well, it was definitely a challenge for him, and I suspect it delayed his entry to medical school because his first year marks were lower than what he expected. In second year he admitted to me that his first year was a mistake, but he decided to stick with it because he didn't have any of the prerequisites necessary to switch out, so he'd almost have to start over.

OverVolt said:
Yea if competition is fierce you are in the wrong damn field. Scientists and engineers may be smart but they apparently aren't smart enough to figure out when they are being taken advantage of.

Millennial's practically work for free they are so desperate. A federal grant for $500 gets you 20 undergraduate researcher's for a semester just killing each other to get their name on the paper.
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That's easy to say, but sometimes the job market changes quickly. If he had arrived in Canada 5 years earlier, I suspect he would have had an easier time of it as an electrical engineer.
 
Eug said:
Well, to be honest, I tell students to take the easiest classes possible (within reason) to get your credits and get your degree, whatever the degree is.

I see so many people aiming for honours degrees when in the vast majority of situations it really doesn't matter. Grades usually matter more than if you took one extra class, and it's easier to get a good grade if you like the class, and it's not too hard. So, I tell them to get all of the necessary requirements, and then take what you like to make your life at the university enjoyable.

I still remember this guy who wanted to go into medical school. He was a very smart guy and thought it'd be cool to do his undergrad in engineering. Not because he had any love of engineering, but just because he thought it'd be a challenge. Well, it was definitely a challenge for him, and I suspect it delayed his entry to medical school because his first year marks were lower than what he expected. In second year he admitted to me that his first year was a mistake, but he decided to stick with it because he didn't have any of the prerequisites necessary to switch out, so he'd almost have to start over.
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Very true I'm sometimes jealous of the Biology majors with easy 4.0's. I guess all that matters is having a plan from the start that works.
 
The part of the article that surprised me is that they have lower pay on average than high school grads with no post-secondary education.

It makes sense I guess in retrospect to a certain extent, but it still surprised me.
 
Eug said:
The part of the article that surprised me is that they have lower pay on average than high school grads with no post-secondary education.

It makes sense I guess in retrospect to a certain extent, but it still surprised me.
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They won't take physical labor jobs lol
 
luckily we don't have that problem here in Denmark (at least not to nearly the same the extent as north america), education is paid by the government so they get to decide how many slots a certain degree gets a year based off supply and demand. It's "easy" to get into engineering and computer science for instance, simply because there's a demand for that skill set, but becoming a midwife is hard as fuck because we already have plenty of those.

the only area where we have that problem is in trades, you go to trade school right out of 9th grade and it isn't regulated like higher education so a lot of kids got burned by the recession because they couldn't get apprenticeships. Trade school is generally for the kids that doesn't do well in school, although some learn a trade and then go on to study some kind of engineering afterwards.
 
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