If you put in 8 hours/day every week, should you receive a wage you can live upon?

[TerryMathews]

It has to be said, you're not the sharpest tool in the box.

At least I can have a rational discussion without continually resorting to insults.

To your earlier point: youre so concerned about knee-jerk derails by conservatives yet ive never seen you chastise Moonie or Dominion or BShole for the exact same behaviors.

It feels like there's an appropriate comment about glass houses and stones to be made here...

 

[theeedude]

Interesting perspective on the subject by the Japanese prime minister:

http://www.project-syndicate.org/co...certed-effort-to-raise-japanese-workers--pay-

Intensive discussions since September among Japanese government, business, and labor leaders have been geared toward setting in motion an upward, virtuous cycle whereby increased wages lead to more robust growth. I have taken part in two of the four meetings so far, joining our finance minister, economy minister, and labor minister, as well as industry and labor leaders like Akio Toyoda, the head of Toyota Motors, and Nobuaki Koga, who leads the Japanese Trade Union Confederation. Each time, I have come away from the meeting feeling confident and invigorated.

Hopefully it won't take decades for American government and business leaders to realize that without wage increases, we are going to be stuck in a stagnant economy.

 

[Veliko]

At least I can have a rational discussion without continually resorting to insults.

So can I. Unfortunately rational discussions are few and far between on P&N.

To your earlier point: youre so concerned about knee-jerk derails by conservatives yet ive never seen you chastise Moonie or Dominion or BShole for the exact same behaviors.

It feels like there's an appropriate comment about glass houses and stones to be made here...

As I said, you're not the sharpest tool in the box.

 

[TerryMathews]

So can I. Unfortunately rational discussions are few and far between on P&N.



As I said, you're not the sharpest tool in the box.

And there you go again. Rather than address a valid point (your hypocrisy), youre back to some more banal insults.

The worst part? They're not even good. Why don't you hit me with a your momma joke next time? You know, freshen it up.

 

[Veliko]

And there you go again. Rather than address a valid point (your hypocrisy), youre back to some more banal insults.

The worst part? They're not even good. Why don't you hit me with a your momma joke next time? You know, freshen it up.

This is what I'm talking about when I say you're not the sharpest - there isn't any hypocrisy.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

You mean like alimony for women?

Big difference here is that alimony only affects the people involved.


But our current welfare system screws over every hard working, tax-paying American. You have no choice, no say in the matter.


We clearly need a welfare system, but it needs to force people back in to a job... Rather than exchange democrat votes for handout programs.

 

[spidey07]

The last time democrats raised the minimum wage we were sent into a 6 year recession the likes we have never seen.

Seems they think they didn't cause enough damage the last time and they're going for full destruction this time.

 

[TerryMathews]

This is what I'm talking about when I say you're not the sharpest - there isn't any hypocrisy.

How do you figure?

When Bshole trots in here or any thread and starts screaming about conservatives, or Moonie starts ranting about conservative brain defects, or Dominion starts calling people conservatard how is that any less disruptive than the usual suspects calling people communists, or socialists, or Kenyan Muslims?

I didnt say anything about it because its P&N and its not ever gonna change. You made the comment about derailers. And by definition of the word, if youre unwilling to condemn the detailers that make comments you agree with then you sir are a hypocrite.

I'll be happy to link you a definition if you need it.

 

[Veliko]

The last time democrats raised the minimum wage we were sent into a 6 year recession the likes we have never seen.

Seems they think they didn't cause enough damage the last time and they're going for full destruction this time.

Surely you like recessions?

After all, being poor and unemployed is a great motivator for people to better themselves.

 

[TerryMathews]

Big difference here is that alimony only affects the people involved.


But our current welfare system screws over every hard working, tax-paying American. You have no choice, no say in the matter.


We clearly need a welfare system, but it needs to force people back in to a job... Rather than exchange democrat votes for handout programs.

We should do away with unemployment and SSI and bring back the CCC.

 

[Veliko]

How do you figure?

When Bshole trots in here or any thread and starts screaming about conservatives, or Moonie starts ranting about conservative brain defects, or Dominion starts calling people conservatard how is that any less disruptive than the usual suspects calling people communists, or socialists, or Kenyan Muslims?

I didnt say anything about it because its P&N and its not ever gonna change. You made the comment about derailers. And by definition of the word, if youre unwilling to condemn the detailers that make comments you agree with then you sir are a hypocrite.

I think you need to go back and look at why I mentioned those particular derailers.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

The last time democrats raised the minimum wage we were sent into a 6 year recession the likes we have never seen.

Seems they think they didn't cause enough damage the last time and they're going for full destruction this time.

He gave us PHONES and he gona do MORE!


This is nothing other than a result of the democratic party trying to pander to the modern progressive voting base.

I honestly think even the major dem leaders know that increasing minimum wage is harmful... But, just like the other side, they don't care about right/wrong, only churning out more voters.

 

[TerryMathews]

I think you need to go back and look at why I mentioned those particular derailers.

Because they hold opinions you find offensive.

Newsflash: people who believe differently than you aren't as stupid as you would like to believe.

 

[Bowfinger]

Meh.

The two types of people in this thread are:

(1) liberals who talk about the world as they wish it were, and
(2) conservatives who talk about the world as it is and what it will be ...

I see a somewhat different split:
(1) Those who worship money above all else, and who therefore believe society is obligated to protect corporate profits first and foremost
(2) Those who have more people-focused values, who recognize that a healthy, truly prosperous society needs to balance the lust for gold against the welfare of the people

In my opinion, that's what the modern GOP has abandoned. The Republicans used to be the responsible grown-ups who understood that businesses existed to make money, but that they also had a responsibility to their communities and their country. America grew and prospered. Those traditional values seemed to have disappeared with the Reagan greed is good era, appealing to the greedy by promising one unfunded tax cut after another. Couple that with anti-abortion pandering to evangelicals and a certain southern demographic, and today's GOP built themselves a substantial fervent, self-serving base. Great for the party; bad for America.

Yes, Democrats have their own problems. Most of their politicians are just as corrupt, and just as self-serving as the right's. And yes, the Dems pay more lip service to the middle class than they do actually serving their interests. Both parties have put America into a death spiral, with a declining middle class and ever-increasing concentration of wealth in the hands of an elite few. America desperately needs a party that actually cares about We, the People, but that's a pipe dream in our system so thoroughly corrupted with money. Until then, unfortunately, our best hope is enough of a public uprising to cow Democratic representatives into covering their asses with a few more crumbs for the working class. It's a damn sure bet Republicans aren't going to help.

 

[Veliko]

Because they hold opinions you find offensive.

Newsflash: people who believe differently than you aren't as stupid as you would like to believe.

You didn't actually go back and look, did you? I can tell because you're repeating the same stupid nonsense again.

I'll give you a hint: it actually started when you said that you looked at the rest of my posts.

 

[TerryMathews]

I see a somewhat different split:
(1) Those who worship money above all else, and who therefore believe society is obligated to protect corporate profits first and foremost
(2) Those who have more people-focused values, who recognize that a healthy, truly prosperous society needs to balance the lust for gold against the welfare of the people

In my opinion, that's what the modern GOP has abandoned. The Republicans used to be the responsible grown-ups who understood that businesses existed to make money, but that they also had a responsibility to their communities and their country. America grew and prospered. Those traditional values seemed to have disappeared with the Reagan greed is good era, appealing to the greedy by promising one unfunded tax cut after another. Couple that with anti-abortion pandering to evangelicals and a certain southern demographic, and today's GOP built themselves a substantial fervent, self-serving base. Great for the party; bad for America.

Yes, Democrats have their own problems. Most of their politicians are just as corrupt, and just as self-serving as the right's. And yes, the Dems pay more lip service to the middle class than they do actually serving their interests. Both parties have put America into a death spiral, with a declining middle class and ever-increasing concentration of wealth in the hands of an elite few. America desperately needs a party that actually cares about We, the People, but that's a pipe dream in our system so thoroughly corrupted with money. Until then, unfortunately, our best hope is enough of a public uprising to cow Democratic representatives into covering their asses with a few more crumbs for the working class. It's a damn sure bet Republicans aren't going to help.

This is scary but I agree with most of what you wrote, however I would add that some of the worst economic damage to the middle class came from Clinton: NAFTA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

We should do away with unemployment and SSI and bring back the CCC.

I very much agree, but let's also include anyone with mental and minor physical disabilities. Shit, have the "degenerative disc disease" social security abusers mine for gold on WoW or whatever it is that the chinese are doing with their prisoners. Too many modern progressive and dem voters deem it acceptable for citizens to sit around doing jack while cashing in that obama paycheck.


It's still baffling to me that modern progressives seem to be A-ok with the "disabilities" people claim to get handouts. But, it all goes back to voting blocs and keeping the liberal voting machine churning.

 

[TerryMathews]

You didn't actually go back and look, did you? I can tell because you're repeating the same stupid nonsense again.

I'll give you a hint: it actually started when you said that you looked at the rest of my posts.

And now you're rewriting history. You were dropping insults before the discussion about thread details came up.

 

[Bowfinger]

This is scary but I agree with most of what you wrote, however I would add that some of the worst economic damage to the middle class came from Clinton: NAFTA and the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

Yes, I agree with that. (Did I just hear the space-time fabric ripping?) That's a good example of how both parties serve the same elite interests at the expense of the American people overall.

 

[TerryMathews]

Yes, I agree with that. (Did I just hear the space-time fabric ripping?) That's a good example of how both parties serve the same elite interests at the expense of the American people overall.

It is quite possible. :beer:

 

[Veliko]

And now you're rewriting history. You were dropping insults before the discussion about thread details came up.

Oh dear Lord, you really struggle with following the conversation don't you?

When I said "it actually started" I wasn't referring to the entire thread and I wasn't referring to the genesis of the solar system either.

I was referring to why I mentioned those particular derailers.

 

[Vic]

Hunger is a very powerful motivator to get a job. We should try it and let Darwin work.

Poor are poor for a reason, they don't work enough or hard enough. That or they think they "deserve" a job that pays "what is fair", that kind of thinking can only lead to bad results.

The last time democrats raised the minimum wage we were sent into a 6 year recession the likes we have never seen.

Seems they think they didn't cause enough damage the last time and they're going for full destruction this time.

Conflicting back to back posts?

 

[TerryMathews]

Oh dear Lord, you really struggle with following the conversation don't you?

When I said "it actually started" I wasn't referring to the entire thread and I wasn't referring to the genesis of the solar system either.

I was referring to why I mentioned those particular derailers.

So what is your end goal here? You want me to say I dont agree with the posters who throw around insults instead of discussing the topic? I thought that would be clear from the way I laid into you.

No one should be using insults to distract from the discussion. Whether that means "communist" or "conservatard", or "the sharpest tool in the shed".

You are still a hypocrite and you are part of the very problem you are complaining about. Gratz?

 

[Veliko]

So what is your end goal here? You want me to say I dont agree with the posters who throw around insults instead of discussing the topic? I thought that would be clear from the way I laid into you.

No one should be using insults to distract from the discussion. Whether that means "communist" or "conservatard", or "the sharpest tool in the shed".

You are still a hypocrite and you are part of the very problem you are complaining about. Gratz?

You still haven't actually gone back to see why I mentioned those derailers have you?

 

[theeedude]

Big difference here is that alimony only affects the people involved.


But our current welfare system screws over every hard working, tax-paying American. You have no choice, no say in the matter.


We clearly need a welfare system, but it needs to force people back in to a job... Rather than exchange democrat votes for handout programs.

What job are you going to force people in to, when we already have high unemployment? You supply siders just don't get it. If there is no demand, there are no jobs, all you are going to accomplish by forcing people into jobs is create oversupply of labor and drive down wages for the people working, which in turn will reduce their ability to spend and damage the economy.