If you DON'T support militaristic action against NK, why not?

[BUnit1701]

What actions do you think North Korea would take if we started air dropping rifles into their country? What likelihood do you give for those rifles to be used in some sort of rebellion as opposed to being taken by the government and used/sold? What political ramifications would all this have?

This is a terrible idea, all around.

Your looking at it in a vacuum. I am presuming by the time we are airdropping food onto them, there is a larger plan/movement happening inside the country. At that time, arming those who would seek to depose the tyrants is common sense.

 

[BoberFett]

The army consists of about 9.5M. So how many do you think are required to organize a succesful revolt?

Let's say you gather 1000 people likeminded people without the government noticing. That's nowhere near enough to stand any chance of success. So you go for 10,000. Then among those there is one person who is either pro-government or is simply scared for his family, and rats you out. Not 10k people will be put in camps, but also every single of their family members. So rather than being the 'brave John, signing up for duty to fight against the oppressive regime' you would suddenly be the guy who signed up every single family member (from infants in the family to any living grandparent) to a live of torture and rape, as well as any future family member that is allowed to be born.

Do you have any young kids, or nieces/nephews? Imagine having to watch them go through that, then say that you would gladly and willingly risk choosing that 'life' for them on the chance that you can gather enough people behind you to overthrow the government.

Fear and misinformation is so strong there that people don't even know whether they can trust their own family members, let alone strangers. If even a few friends come over you can be certain that, even if none of them nor your neighbours will tell on you, you will be monitored by the government. They don't take any chances, they make sure no one has the opportunity to start a revolt, and you can't organize large meetings without government permission.

Revolutions always start small. If watching their family and friends being murdered by the military doesn't cause a revolt, then there's nothing any outsiders can do to help them.

 

[piasabird]

You do realize that south korea does not border with China???

Duh . . . .

 

[werepossum]

Not only have experts on NK reported that the people DON'T know their plight to the full extent that it exists, but no they cannot gather together. There are spies everywhere and all gatherings are state sanctioned or they don't happen at all. The people have no internet, no pirate radio stations, etc. there is no way for them to communicate. They keep their dislikes about the state to themselves or within their immediate family. Anything more than that is massively hedged because somebody can always be watching. And if being caught means not only do you die but your entire family and extended family ends up in a work camp it has a tendency to cool your guns. If you were put in their situation you would do the same thing, which is to say exactly nothing because you have no power. They are powerless.

I would be very surprised if the average North Korean is really aware of his plight. Neil Boortz told a story of some Russians he befriended during the waning years of the Cold War, when he visited the nation in an exchange program. He and his wife accompanied the Russian wife buying groceries for a meal celebrating the couple's first night staying with them. Took most of the day - stand in line at the government bread shop, stand in line at the government green grocer, stand in line at the government butcher shop, etc. The Americans told the Russian lady about supermarkets and she just nodded. Years later the Berlin Wall fell and the Russians were able to leave then-Russia to visit the Boortz family. They repeated the ceremonial first meal by taking her to a supermarket. Two steps in, she stopped, shocked, and began to cry. When asked what was wrong, she told them she was simply overwhelmed by the sight of so much food from which to choose. The Americans were puzzled. After all, they had told her about supermarkets; she had even seen them on television. She simply believed it was propaganda; she assumed that everyone one lived more or less like people in the Soviet Union and like the USSR, simply created propaganda to make people believe their country and way of life were better.

This was a relativly well-to-do Russian couple in Moscow. They had a spare bedroom, a television set, an automobile, were politically trusted enough to host foreign journalists. Yet they could not believe that America (or Europe) was significantly better off than the USSR. Compare that to the average North Korean, who has no source of news other than government-provided and is under constant threat of death, torture or enslavement. Can she really conceive of a lifestyle as the average South Korean enjoys? I'm guessing that to the extent she even ever hears about such, she too relegates it to propaganda, if not some government scheme to test her loyalty.

 

[Doppel]

I would be very surprised if the average North Korean is really aware of his plight. Neil Boortz told a story of some Russians he befriended during the waning years of the Cold War, when he visited the nation in an exchange program. He and his wife accompanied the Russian wife buying groceries for a meal celebrating the couple's first night staying with them. Took most of the day - stand in line at the government bread shop, stand in line at the government green grocer, stand in line at the government butcher shop, etc. The Americans told the Russian lady about supermarkets and she just nodded. Years later the Berlin Wall fell and the Russians were able to leave then-Russia to visit the Boortz family. They repeated the ceremonial first meal by taking her to a supermarket. Two steps in, she stopped, shocked, and began to cry. When asked what was wrong, she told them she was simply overwhelmed by the sight of so much food from which to choose. The Americans were puzzled. After all, they had told her about supermarkets; she had even seen them on television. She simply believed it was propaganda; she assumed that everyone one lived more or less like people in the Soviet Union and like the USSR, simply created propaganda to make people believe their country and way of life were better.

This was a relativly well-to-do Russian couple in Moscow. They had a spare bedroom, a television set, an automobile, were politically trusted enough to host foreign journalists. Yet they could not believe that America (or Europe) was significantly better off than the USSR. Compare that to the average North Korean, who has no source of news other than government-provided and is under constant threat of death, torture or enslavement. Can she really conceive of a lifestyle as the average South Korean enjoys? I'm guessing that to the extent she even ever hears about such, she too relegates it to propaganda, if not some government scheme to test her loyalty.

Yeah a lot of NKers (not sure what percentage, though) do import some illegal stuff like SK soap operas but they may assume it's just film sets as well.

Your story reminds me of one that I can't find now about a Russian dignitary who visited the US during the height of the cold war and initially thought that all the people driving around in cars was a massive propaganda campaign.

Some NKers know what's going on, and some are truly in denial.

 

[Fern]

I would be very surprised if the average North Korean is really aware of his plight.
-snip-

I used to hear this story a lot when I lived in Miami.

The Cubans in South FL were constantly helping smuggle people out of Cuba. For those who made it over here, seeing our grocery stores etc was shocking to them. And they had no doubt heard about it because the Cuban in the USA were frequently visiting Cuba.

Fern

 

[werepossum]

Yeah a lot of NKers (not sure what percentage, though) do import some illegal stuff like SK soap operas but they may assume it's just film sets as well.

Your story reminds me of one that I can't find now about a Russian dignitary who visited the US during the height of the cold war and initially thought that all the people driving around in cars was a massive propaganda campaign.

Some NKers know what's going on, and some are truly in denial.

No doubt. Imagine if people from Japan told us they all had flying space-capable cars. We'd never believe it because it's just too far above what we have.

I used to hear this story a lot when I lived in Miami.

The Cubans in South FL were constantly helping smuggle people out of Cuba. For those who made it over here, seeing our grocery stores etc was shocking to them. And they had no doubt heard about it because the Cuban in the USA were frequently visiting Cuba.

Fern

Yep. Cuba at least has food though. Although those not in government's favor often need a second job under the table to afford to buy it.

 

[ralfy]

From what I remember, citizens of both Koreas generally want peace and unification. However, the governments and foreign backers do not.

 

[5150Joker]

I don't think the US should attack any other country as long as they don't directly harm the US. If NK wants to kill its citizens, that's their business. If the population gets fed up, they along with the troops will rise up and overthrow the dictators.

 

[Generator]

South Korea is a productive little country for the world. The suffering of the north deserves military action, it surely would be righteous, but life should be respected for now. The warfare by all Asian countries should also be respected. I would prefer to let hostilities rise, let them destroy themselves and we clean up at our leisure.