If you disable Intel TM, will your CPU melt down if cooling fails?

[aigomorla]

1. We are discussing HDDs.
2. You are incorrectly assuming that air proofing and water proofing works via filtration... preventing dust (which is hundreds, thousands, or more atoms big) is done via filtration. Water and air proofing requires a seal (say, a rubber one) which is limited on the pressures it handles, a seal can be damaged by water, or water could seep in via wicking actions, etc etc...
Theoretically, you could make a watertight seal that reacts with atmospheric gases to decompose, but I don't know of any... it is fairly simple to do the reverse and make something airproof but incapable of surviving water.

if your talking in regards to a filter... your absolutely correct.

But dust proofing, and air proofing are 2 different things..

in a auto body shop, i had a deli-ma... how to keep dust outside the computer yet keep it flowing.

What i did was basically sealed up the case with duct tape.
Then i put a KNN air filter on a dryer vent tubing and attached it to a high powered fan.

That made the dust get caught in the KNN and clean air was working inside the computer.

Since the machine worked on a principle of possitive pressure, and had the filter, dust could not get in, because air would not get in from the possitive pressure.

They loved this idea, and i think they still use it.
They know how to clean the KNN but have no clue on how to clean the computer.

This is the only way i learned to use possitive pressure effectively.
All the other ways was moot because its hard to maintain that pressure internally.

But having 2 Deltas driving the pressure in took care of it
Yeah it was loud, but the sound of a impact hammer, or a crank wrench on an air compressor is tons louder.
So they didnt care.

 

[taltamir]

dust proofing, and air proofing are 2 different things

That is what I said. Seero was saying that it is impossible to dust proof something without ALSO air proofing AND waterproofing it.
I said the two are different.
As far as I understood you chimed in also stating that dust proofing = air proofing... if this isn't what you were saying, then sorry for misinterpreting you.

 

[aigomorla]

That is what I said. Seero was saying that it is impossible to dust proof something without ALSO air proofing AND waterproofing it.
I said the two are different.
As far as I understood you chimed in also stating that dust proofing = air proofing... if this isn't what you were saying, then sorry for misinterpreting you.

nah its ok, i mistook ya.

Yeah, air proofing and dust proofing are completely different.

Air proofing would be more use of possitive pressure, to prevent even air from entering.

Dust proofing is my fruity illustration on top on what i did in an auto body shop.


Last comment on soap... its bad.. because SOAP leaves film.
Take a look inside your shower b4 u clean it.

You really want that film inside your parts?
Some of the film is also oil, since soap is a fat derivitive, and can be conductive.

So the idiot saying use soap water on hardware needs to be spanked.

Id rather use acetone and get a head high from the fumes, then subject my parts to soap water.

 

[Seero]

Yes you are, because even i have to agree he's a total idiot.

But what would i know eh? ive only watercooled for more then 10yrs, and have done just about everything in salvaging leaked systems to complete nightmare wrecks.

But hey, if u say he's an expert for using soap water... then maybe we should educate you the proper real ways.

Only things u can dip in soap water:

1. Your heat sink
2. Your fans.. yes fans are OK...
3. Your fingers
4. IC Diamond in hot water to loosen it a bit.
5. Your case without any hardware.
6. Your mascott after he has made a mess of your TIM.. er i mean your pet dog..

Everything else ur asking for it.

Let say that clip isn't done by an expert, I guess the following article is.
How-To: Recover from a Soda-Spill Disaster
Posted 05/28/10 at 10:37:35 AM by Alex Castle

4. Wash It Off

Once you’ve exposed the circuitry in your device, you’ll have to clean off the stain. If you can see that the stain is contained in a certain part of the board, you can use alcohol swabs, as described above, to clean it off (images C and D). If an entire circuit board is soiled, you’ll need to resort to more drastic measures: completely disconnect it from the rest of the gadget and run it under soapy water.

Yes, that’s right, run it under water. We’re all conditioned to want to keep our electronics away from liquids, and that’s generally a good policy, but sometimes you’ve got to fight fire with fire, so wash that sucker off. Don’t scrub, just gently wipe, and let the soapy water do its thing.

Again, it is very unusual to require that degree of cleaning, but trying to wash the entire mobo with alcohol is just too expensive. I didn't want to post this type of article because I, like Taltamir, don't want people to think this it is a good practice and try at home.

Shall you, for whatever reason, need to wash the mobo in this degree, it means there are dirt/stains that covers a huge portion of the board. Soap is the best way to remove those without the need of scrubbing it.

Again, if you ain't an expert, do not even think of trying it.

 

[aigomorla]

Let say that clip isn't done by an expert, I guess the following article is.
How-To: Recover from a Soda-Spill Disaster
Posted 05/28/10 at 10:37:35 AM by Alex Castle

No u dont use soap... Sigh...

If i was in that situation...
I would of alcohol dipped it.

Do you know how long it takes to take appart all that and clean it by hand?
Remove all non esentials... and then dip the unit in alcohol and let it sit in a warm place for a few hours.

Alcohol has a low evap point.

The point is getting all the unknowns out and replaceing it with something clean like alcohol.
The hard part is catching it quickly and acting on it quickly.. if u let the coke dry, well then your SOL.
A Dip wont work.


Not to sound like a egotist.. but ive built better systems then Maximum PC showcased.

DONT USE SOAP PERIOD.

 

[taltamir]

Let say that clip isn't done by an expert, I guess the following article is.
How-To: Recover from a Soda-Spill Disaster
Posted 05/28/10 at 10:37:35 AM by Alex Castle

I can find you a dozen sites that claim that the earth is flat... And reality doesn't care how many and which people believe in something... So showing just another website advocating soapwater doesn't magically prove your point. Especially considering which websites you find/chose.

On the plus side, the website you linked doesn't advocate to just dump any computer into soapwater like the previous links you provided... they specify that if you spilled a beverage that completely soaks a board and its too much to wipe off with alcohol swabs, then and only then use soap water, then DDI water to remove the soap, then dry... unlike the previous links you posted of "experts" dumping perfectly good hardware into soapwater for merely being dusty.

My biggest problem there is that they said "if it is completely soaked" rather then "if it dried already". So what if it is completely soak? just use DDI without soap... They should have at least specified to use it on dry stains of soft drink only. And even then it is probably not the best cleaning strategy, they don't even specify which detergent to use, just "soap"...

 

[Gillbot]

Let say that clip isn't done by an expert, I guess the following article is.
How-To: Recover from a Soda-Spill Disaster
Posted 05/28/10 at 10:37:35 AM by Alex Castle


Again, it is very unusual to require that degree of cleaning, but trying to wash the entire mobo with alcohol is just too expensive. I didn't want to post this type of article because I, like Taltamir, don't want people to think this it is a good practice and try at home.

Shall you, for whatever reason, need to wash the mobo in this degree, it means there are dirt/stains that covers a huge portion of the board. Soap is the best way to remove those without the need of scrubbing it.

Again, if you ain't an expert, do not even think of trying it.

 

[Seero]

No u dont use soap... Sigh...

If i was in that situation...
I would of alcohol dipped it.

Do you know how long it takes to take appart all that and clean it by hand?
Remove all non esentials... and then dip the unit in alcohol and let it sit in a warm place for a few hours.

Alcohol has a low evap point.

The point is getting all the unknowns out and replaceing it with something clean like alcohol.
The hard part is catching it quickly and acting on it quickly.. if u let the coke dry, well then your SOL.
A Dip wont work.


Not to sound like a egotist.. but ive built better systems then Maximum PC showcased.

DONT USE SOAP PERIOD.

I will not challenge your abilities in assembling systems. Between technicians, they know dropping electronics in toilets or gone into a laundry trip are not something unusual. I hope by now you see why sometimes drastic measures are needed.

I don't see how soap is worst then flux, and flux is the most common thing to use when it comes to soldering. What do manufacturer use to clean flux off after a massive solder job? Saponifiers. Ironically, saponification creates soap. I wonder what manufacturer use to wash those soap off with.

Can you explain why is it so bad to wash electronics with soapy water if it will be completely clean and dried quickly afterwards?

 

[Seero]

Interesting.

 

[aigomorla]

Can you explain why is it so bad to wash electronics with soapy water if it will be completely clean and dried quickly afterwards?

because you are not the manufactor.

You do not have bake ovens to put the cleaned projects in, or a clean room to conduct such cleanings.

Soap can be conductive.
Whats worse is it clumps, because that is the properties of soap.
So even if u get all the dust off, when you pull your board out, the soapy residue has 1 more chance to get lodged inside your IC's and clump internally so water wont get it out.

VS pure alcohol... which should replace the current liquid logged in the IC, break up any organic matter, and then defuse into the solution.

If you can gaurentee you are gonna get rid of all the soap then yea i see its fine. You could of washed it with koolaid as long as you had a gaurentee'd way of removing all the koolaid.

Soap water doesnt have a low boiling point, alcohol does. So as long as u can replace all the nasty stuff with alcohol, it should by nature evap out and be clean.

You dont need to use soap, u can get away with just compressed air and a soft brush.
Even a soft toothbrush works great at cleaning the ic chips of dust.

Dipping, or applying any type of cleaning solvant is the last ditch move.

Were trying to tell you to clean cleaner, then to pull a hail mary.

Seero, ive been building systems for a while now.
Also i have the reputation of having one of the worst dust problems on the forum.
Ask anyone who knows me... dust is like my best friend.
So like all best friends.. i figured out a way to ditch them without pissing them off.

 

[Seero]

because you are not the manufactor.

You do not have bake ovens to put the cleaned projects in, or a clean room to conduct such cleanings.

Soap can be conductive.
Whats worse is it clumps, because that is the properties of soap.
So even if u get all the dust off, when you pull your board out, the soapy residue has 1 more chance to get lodged inside your IC's and clump internally so water wont get it out.

VS pure alcohol... which should replace the current liquid logged in the IC, break up any organic matter, and then defuse into the solution.

If you can gaurentee you are gonna get rid of all the soap then yea i see its fine. You could of washed it with koolaid as long as you had a gaurentee'd way of removing all the koolaid.

Soap water doesnt have a low boiling point, alcohol does. So as long as u can replace all the nasty stuff with alcohol, it should by nature evap out and be clean.

You dont need to use soap, u can get away with just compressed air and a soft brush.
Even a soft toothbrush works great at cleaning the ic chips of dust.

Dipping, or applying any type of cleaning solvant is the last ditch move.

Were trying to tell you to clean cleaner, then to pull a hail mary.

Flux residues
I never said this is done by average Joe. I said it is done by experts, didn't I?
The original video chip doesn't contain the entire process. The most important part of the process is replacing the caps, which relates back to the orginal topic. Usually, they need to solder lots of capacitors in or out. Yes, they could have used alcohol, but then they may get high by the fume(I'm not sure of those can get you high.) After this process, can you be sure that you have cleaned all flux with your Q-tip?

Once again, I am not challenging your skills, nor I disagree that this is not the preferred method of cleaning.

 

[aigomorla]

Flux residues
I never said this is done by average Joe. I said it is done by experts, didn't I?

then why did u link a youtube video which promoted it?

And u think i dont know FLUX?

What do you think is inside all these guys?

Do u know how we teach people how to get rid of FLUX inside new rads?
We tell them to use boiling water, and then flush it.
This was told to us by serveral rad manufacturers.

Gabe from swiftech, Marci from Thermochill, and i even heard it from others @ XSPC.

We still dont tell people to use soap inside there rads.

 

[taltamir]

I never said this is done by average Joe. I said it is done by experts, didn't I?

you still maintain those guys are experts though.
aigomorla, an expert, uses alcohol.

to your credit you indeed did not claim that average joe should use soap... but you still claim experts use soapwater to clean their electronics, as far as I can tell the argument I and the others are making is that "no, experts do NOT use soapwater".

 

[Seero]

then why did u link a youtube video which promoted it?

And u think i dont know FLUX?

What do you think is inside all these guys?

Do u know how we teach people how to get rid of FLUX inside new rads?
We tell them to use boiling water, and then flush it.
This was told to us by serveral rad manufacturers.

Gabe from swiftech, Marci from Thermochill, and i even heard it from others @ XSPC.

We still dont tell people to use soap inside there rads.

Well I was very upset at the time seeing the reply above, but that is another story.
I don't know how many times I said I am not challenging you. There is a difference between "how expert does it" compare to "how you should do it". What is more harmful to computer, flux or bad caps? Bad caps are worst IMO. Soap is not something better than those, but if handled properly, does remove flux residue.

Please don't be mad at me. I have linked proof to what I said. In theory, it works, in practice, it works. Should you try it? No.

 

[Seero]

you still maintain those guys are experts though.
aigomorla, an expert, uses alcohol.

to your credit you indeed did not claim that average joe should use soap... but you still claim experts use soapwater to clean their electronics, as far as I can tell the argument I and the others are making is that "no, experts do NOT use soapwater".

I believe the term "expert" refers to people who knows what they are doing, and knows them very well. Not all experts do things the same way. Some experts like to clean off flux with alcohol as they solder, some clean it off and one shot afterwards. By expert, I don't mean you, or any other people in this thread, but referring to someone who knows what they are doing. That doesn't mean you, and any other people in this thread, are not experts.

If I have created a confusion hinting that all experts does the same thing the same way, then it is my fault. I am sorry.

 

[taltamir]

Please don't be mad at me. I have linked proof to what I said. In theory, it works, in practice, it works. Should you try it? No.

I really don't think anyone is mad, just cordial disagreement as far as I can tell