If you could be reborn with a different IQ..... would you choose to?

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bersl2

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2004
1,617
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Originally posted by: Juno
a bit lower than my 137. i might have a mental illness. :(

that's why i'm going to see a psychology expert this friday for a psychological evaluation.

Don't be sad... psychological evaluations are just so much fun!!! :) I have thoroughly enjoyed every single one I've had.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,404
14,798
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about 45, so I could vote for Bush in the 2008 presidential election...
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
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ostif.org
Originally posted by: Flyback
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Something more 'normal', no question. I wouldn't mind being a little above, but not much. Say, 110-140 range. That way I could get some of the benefits without being a total pariah.

LoL. Are you suggesting that you're higher than 140? Hell, some Nobel physicists were in the 130 range.

140 is not all that rare

roughly 1/25000 people.

DaVinci was estimated to be 180-200.
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
4,723
80
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To all of you who wish you could have an extremely high IQ, hear me out.

Your IQ really doesn't measure how smart you are. I'll agree that there is a slight correlation between the two, but its not the single, end-all answer to intelligence. I'm not a doctor, so this is just my random opinion based on my own personal experience.

But I think there's a lesson you guys should learn.

I know that this is a very long post, but I promise it's worth the read. I put a lot of emotion, even tears, into this post.

Now... you can choose to believe me or ignore me, I really don't care. I have nothing to prove to some random people over the internet. Make the right choice and learn something.

Anyways, here it goes.

If you wish you had an extremely high IQ, you're really taking what you currently have for granted. If you consider yourself "the average joe" and are unhappy, please listen to me. You have a gift. Appreciate it. Life isn't about how smart you are. Please trust me on this.

Having a high IQ is a very serious thing. I don't think you all understand what it's like. If you think it'll help you become more successful, cure cancer, or anything like that, you're just buying into some cheesy movies. The truth, at least to me, is very different.

So why don't you read a little bit and get some perspective. I'll tell you a little bit about myself. Don't pity me, I'm proud of my life. Instead, read and take it in and try to understand the world in a different way.

I struggled through school my whole life... And before you make fun of my English, consider that it's my most recently learned language. Anyways... I nearly failed every single grade until I got to high school. Am I stupid? No, I'm not. I just didn't care. Everything was too easy. I'm not kidding you when I say that I was too bored to do any homework. I _COULD_NOT_ do anything that was not a challenge to me no matter what I tried. It wasn't a matter of choice; my mind seriously just would not go through certain things with me. I had uncontrollable mood swings. I still have them, but I don't get aggressive. Imagine what I was like when you tried to talk to me... I couldn't stay on topic because my brain couldn't hold on to a conversation. I could barely even make eye contact with people because I was in a totally separate world. I couldn't control it! I didn't want to be a jerk - I just seriously had no social skills. I was always thinking about the world around me and how it worked... I couldn't think about the person talking to me.

The worst was when I was forced to do any type of mathematics. I don't claim to be a genius by any means.... but I'd seriously stare at my assignment and just not get it. It's not that I didn't understand; it's that it was worth nothing to me. My brain would pretty much tell me it was too easy, so it was pointless. "Stop wasting my time" kind of deal. I know it's the wrong attitude, but do you think I could CHOOSE how I felt? Like I said, I had severe mood swings and it's EXTREMELY hard to control your thoughts while under extreme emotion! I couldn't get myself to concentrate on simple tasks. You'll find it hard to believe, but I'm exceptionally talented with math, but when a test was put on my desk in middle school, all I could do was look at it and start crying. I'll never forget that day, nor the pain it caused. The pain didn't come from the embarrassment, no. Instead, it came from the fact the I disappointed my parents and I had nobody to talk to that could understand me. I had one friend, and I could talk to him, but nobody could truly sympathize with me.

I was diagnosed with ADD at a very early age. The medicine did nothing but make me even more unstable. I couldn't eat, I was constantly thirsty, and extremely irritable. Still, it never helped me in any way. I would lose focus just as easily with anything school related. Shortly after being diagnosed (at age 5), I was administered my first IQ test (because my parents thought I was stupid). I don't know why, but for X, Y, or Z reason, nobody cared about the results. I actually was never told these results until I was 18 (more on that later).

The damage went pretty deep. Little kids (I'm talking elementary school, middle school) don't know any better and just kept making fun of me for being stupid, nobody liked me, I even got bullied/beat up. I seriously had 1 (one) friend in elementary and middle school. One friend. Do you think I only wanted one friend? Has anyone EVER heard of the stereotypical "nobody can understand me" phrase? I swear to you, I have the right to say it and it HURTS. No physical pain can amount to this truth. For all of you who have broken up with someone you loved and are feeling lonely, I understand how you feel (I've been through it too)... but imagine what your life would be like if you had one like mine. Lonely has a different meaning. There was once where I almost committed suicide (and no, I will never think those thoughts again). The only thing that kept me going was the hope that one day I would be "normal".

Seriously, being "smart" I think is the reason why I'm so mentally unstable (or as I like to say, f*cked up). YOU DON'T WANT TO TRY IT!

And then there's the pressure from my parents and older sister. My sister had always been very successful - straight A student, she had her own radio show, wrote for the newspaper, all while in high school. My sister would poke fun at me my whole life, telling me things like "how can we be related" and things like that. My parents wouldn't accept that I was different. Throughout the years, my parents would try all sorts of things with me - from positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, prescription drugs, therapists, hypnosis, whatever. It's all the same, nothing works. I know exactly what a human needs to keep a level, stable mind; It's a good, happy, social life.

I'm not saying I've been a prodigy my whole life. On the contrary, I specifically said that I don't think a person's IQ measures how smart they are. I know I'm smart... I just feel like my IQ is more of a measure of how my thought process works... and in my case, it's VERY uncontrollably. It makes life a lot harder than you could ever imagine. Take the phrase "deep thought" for example. Have you ever been in deep thought? I don't think I could ever explain to anybody what "deep thought" means to ME. I'd have to explain every detail of my thought process, and I don't even know how to explain it. I, myself, don't even understand HOW I think. It just happens. So what's my point? If I enter a state of deep thought, I will not come out of it. It's like a trance. It's like a curse, actually. Until I come up with a conclusion, I will not leave it alone. Not for hours, but days. People like me don't control what they think about, so sometimes you go down some scary roads. I've thought about suicide and other horrible things. I can't help it. Imagine being 5 years old, staying up for more than 48 hours because you can't sleep... all because your mind is tumbling down a steep hill and you just can't stop it. When I finally stopped, I concluded that there is no god, there is no higher power, and that there's no real reason for life, it's just life. How would you feel if you grew up and during your whole life with nothing to hold on to?

I wish I believed in a higher power. A world without a god is a very confusing one. I cannot choose this, I just simply cannot believe in a god. I wish I could. This may sound stupid to you, it probably doesn't make sense to you, but I'm crying as I type this, so I'd appreciate it if you don't make fun of me. I'm just sharing what I went through, that's all.

I've actually thought about what it'd be like to start life over again with a simpler brain. Oh would I give ANYTHING for that opportunity. That's what got me interested in this thread. Moving on -

As I was getting older, I was starting to understand myself better. I was starting to understand everything better actually: people, school, the world. While my whole life I had tried to fit in (with no success), I was finally just accepting that I just am not your average person. I put the prescription drugs aside and just went with life, saw what happened. I just stopped fighting myself. To this day, I can't control how my mind works - it just works and its up to me how I'm going to use it.

So as I entered high school, I figured I'd try something new. I would let myself be myself. Mood swings still happened, I still almost failed my freshman year, but there was one thing that made the biggest difference in my life; I made some friends. I know it sounds corny, just bare with me. I was a freshman and I became friends with two seniors. They were not total social outcasts like me, but they just didn't have many friends in high school. Most of them were older (in college). This is how I met pretty much all of my friends - all 4 or 5 years older than me. Finally, there was a crowd of people who I could actually talk to without losing interest and without trying to dumb myself down. I could just be myself!

With the increase in social interaction, my life became so much simpler. I could motivate myself to do almost anything I wanted just because I was happier. I became even happier when I'd do well in school - something I didn't do EVER in my entire life until then. Life was finally being great to me. I'm sure compared to everyone else who had more friends than fingers I was a complete loser, but those are the same people who take their friends for granted. I was happy, for the first time, and I was kicking ass. My grades skyrocketed, my parents got off my back, and pretty much anything that bothered me just left me alone. It's amazing how much a person can do if he or she is just HAPPY.

Pretty much after I finished puberty (which was very late for me... 2 years ago and I'm 19 now), I've toned down a bit. I guess my mind finally matched my body? I'm not a doctor, not sure how it all works. Probably hormone related. Anyways, I still get my mood swings, I still can't focus all the time, and I still get trapped in extremely deep thought, and I still have horrible people skills, BUT I have a lot more control over myself. It's not so bad anymore - I've come to realize that I can control it if I have good self discipline. I did a LOT of growing up the last two years of my life.

At the start of my senior year of high school, I was doing a lot better, so I humored my parents by going to a couple doctors (therapists, whatever). Things seemed okay. I had another IQ exam. Same exact result as the one I took when I was 5 years old. Yea well it turns out my parents lied to me and just didn't want to tell me what I scored when I was 5 (and at the time when I was 5, I didn't even know what IQ meant). This time, I knew my IQ. To me, it was just a number. I guess it answered a few questions I had about myself, but honestly all it did, if anything, was discourage me. This was just further proof that I wasn't normal. The truth is, IQ doesn't mean ANYTHING.... if it means something, it's an inverse relationship with social skills and happiness, thats all! I didn't let it get to me - I just convinced myself it didn't matter.

I had a few girlfriends, but it was just the same thing - none of them really understood me, so it never worked. Hell, I didn't understand them either, but that's just because they weren't worth understanding... Except one. I had a great, smart, beautiful girlfriend once. This girl was different and she truly understood who/what I really am. I didn't have to put on a show for her. I loved her a lot, and she was the reason I had strength throughout the second half of my high school career. We were together for almost two years. I'm sure you all know that love is complicated, so I won't explain how we broke up, but I'm sure you know how it is to go through such grief. Now combine that with my mood swings, my anxieties, my low confidence, and everything else I've been through. Basically, the way I felt was that I was back to square one at the end of my senior year of high school. I lost all that made me strong and made me happy.

But I was older and smarter now. Life is just a big challenge for me, so I'd find a way to keep on keeping on. My self discipline was (and still is) pretty amazing, so that's how I get through obstacles in the road.

I'm in college now. The environment is completely different. It's nice to be socially accepted with my intelligence and personality. I have more friends than ever, my classes are stimulating my brain, and everything is just great. Look, I can solve problems that make some people cry (no joke, I did it last week), but honestly it's NOTHING compared to just having friends and living a normal, happy life. Bragging about how smart you are, it's just BS. Someone who brags is just reaching out for social acceptance.

And now I get to the point:
I don't want to hear any of you telling me that I CHOSE to go through what I went through. You have no idea. I'm sharing just a little summary about a few things in my life, so don't judge me.

Look I know that I sound like an arrogant jerk by emphasizing my brain's capacity. Those are not my intentions. I really could care less about how "smart" people think I am. I'm told this crap all the time and really, it's just annoying. To tell you the truth, I'm not even smart - I just have an extremely high IQ. It means NOTHING other than HOW you think. In my opinion, I'm a dumbass. I don't think happy, or useful thoughts.

You people who wish you had a high IQ, you really have no idea what it's like. Being "smart" isn't worth the things I have to deal with on a daily basis. I would never, EVER wish upon anyone the anxiety, depression, and overall loss of control that comes with having my kind of brain. You have no idea what it's like to understand life's innermost complexities, but not know how to approach a girl. What makes us happy is living life with friends, a girlfriend, a wife, whatever it may be. Not alone. That's my biggest problem just because I'm so damn weird. I am a weird person, I know this.

To the people who claim to be "average" and want to be something more, just trust me. YOU'RE the one with the gift. Don't take it for granted.

^^ And that, ladies and gentleman, are my 2 cents.
 
May 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: slugg
To all of you who wish you could have an extremely high IQ, hear me out.

Your IQ really doesn't measure how smart you are. I'll agree that there is a slight correlation between the two, but its not the single, end-all answer to intelligence. I'm not a doctor, so this is just my random opinion based on my own personal experience.

But I think there's a lesson you guys should learn.

And now I get to the point:
I don't want to hear any of you telling me that I CHOSE to go through what I went through. You have no idea. I'm sharing just a little summary about a few things in my life, so don't judge me.

Look I know that I sound like an arrogant jerk by emphasizing my brain's capacity. Those are not my intentions. I really could care less about how "smart" people think I am. I'm told this crap all the time and really, it's just annoying. To tell you the truth, I'm not even smart - I just have an extremely high IQ. It means NOTHING other than HOW you think. In my opinion, I'm a dumbass. I don't think happy, or useful thoughts.

You people who wish you had a high IQ, you really have no idea what it's like. Being "smart" isn't worth the things I have to deal with on a daily basis. I would never, EVER wish upon anyone the anxiety, depression, and overall loss of control that comes with having my kind of brain. You have no idea what it's like to understand life's innermost complexities, but not know how to approach a girl. What makes us happy is living life with friends, a girlfriend, a wife, whatever it may be. Not alone. That's my biggest problem just because I'm so damn weird. I am a weird person, I know this.

To the people who claim to be "average" and want to be something more, just trust me. YOU'RE the one with the gift. Don't take it for granted.

^^ And that, ladies and gentleman, are my 2 cents.

While I agree with you in general and have had very (actually SCARILY) similar experiences I've reached somewhat different conclusions about the nature of my situation.

Knowledge isn't intelligence, and vice versa. Intelligence makes knowledge easier to come by and utilize. Knowledge makes intelligence more useful. In a system geared towards averages (ie school) you're not likely to get support for either when you're different. Furthermore one isn't 'required' for the other. That's how average people obtain advanced degrees, and how exceptionally gifted persons often achieve nothing.

Psychological development is seperate from, but related to, cognitive development. It is therefore also related to the knowledge and intelligence axis of human makeup. It is in this area that precociousness is to be understood. I can't say rather there is an intelligence related to this development, or if it progresses along it's own path. I also don't know rather I fully support tying moral development with the cognitive aspects of psychological development as is often done. All I know is it must generally be considered when addressing intelligence.

Personality and mental condition are at least as important to the grand equation as any of these other facets being discussed. Everyone accepts that people with mental illness or learning disabilities are in a unique situation with regards to learning and intelligence, but very few have addressed how centrally important personality type is to these things. Personality impacts (or is impacted by) both cognitive and moral psychological development, knowledge acquisition, and so on. Furthermore it either affects or is affected by type of intelligence. I also believe that it is personality and not intelligence, or even psychological development, which is central to predicting success in school and in all other things.

Intelligence is multiple, not singular. I don't totally hold with Gardner but he's closer than Wechsler, Binet, or any other 'g' proponent. Sternberg is another who is at least moving towards correct interpretation. If there is a 'g' then it is merely the combined shadow cast by the objects of the individual intelligences.

-----

Why do I bring this all up in relation to your post? Because while I agree with your conclusions I think you're reaching them based on faulty information. You can't just look at your IQ and claim that it's wholly responsible for what happened. I'd bet you're a HSP (highly sensitive person) or an INFP personality type (or something similar). If you're ADD or have other issues then that's also contributing. You should also consider where your potential intelligence lies...math may simply not be a strong area. Finally I would question your speed of psychological development. Much of what you deescribe I would attribute to precociousness (ie early psychological development) and not directly to intelligence.

I'm not trying to say you aren't intelligent, or that it doesn't cause you problems. I'm just pointing out that correlation isn't causation and you should consider how things are inter-related before coming to a conclusion.
 

angminas

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2006
3,331
26
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Slugg, you should PM me. I'm a lot like you, but older. This post is not just directed at you, though.

There's no doubt intelligence isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's just a thing, a tool, an object. As Scott Adams put it, intelligence has much less practical application than you'd think.

Normal or even gifted people tend to think that a genius IQ is some Excalibur of success, but really it's more like...um. It's a bit like The One Ring, except instead of being impossible to control, it's merely damn difficult...and instead of being evil, it's neutral. It's not good in and of itself- indeed, most of the people I admire are far less intelligent than I am, and far better people. But it represents great power in a form that few people can understand. This presents a problem.

When nobody understands your power, how can they advise you on how to use it? How can you learn to use such power without hurting people? How do you find somebody who has actually been where you have, so they can save you from making the same mistakes they did at your age?

With the Interweb now, things are different. Better, in that useful forums exist, where one learns that intelligence equals power, and power equals responsibility. Worse, in that destructive forums exist, where one learns that intelligence equals power, and power equals funny ways to hurt people less intelligent than you. ATOT is somewhere in the middle.

As has been mentioned, great intelligence is usually offset by serious deficiencies. I, for instance, have at least 5 different learning disabilities, to various degrees. The net effect is (to stretch the metaphor) a lot like Gollum living in his cave. Great power is there at your fingertips, but where did it come from? What different ways can it be used? Who knows about it, and how would one find them, or befriend them? How does one resist the wicked temptation to simply use this power to help oneself, the rest of the world be damned? How does one break out of the obvious simple formula of using the power in a short-term way, while ignoring or being unable to comprehend the "real life" not far away? It's a lousy situation, especially if one hasn't been raised by a supportive or knowledgeable family (sounds like slugg wasn't, and I know my mom didn't know what to do with me, try though she might).

I don't have time to write much more, so I'll sum up a bit for now. I'm not trying to write the definitive work on the subject.

There's no need to worship intelligence. There's also no need to fear it, demonize it, or anything similar. As I said, it's just a thing. What matters is how that thing is used. Extremely intelligent people have capabilities and opportunities that other people do not have, which leads to temptation...they also almost always miss out on at least as many capabilities and opportunities, which should lead to humility. Being adult is about knowing oneself in the past and present and choosing oneself in the future.

People are given a certain set of abilities, just like rolling up a character. Some people get a lot of high scores, some get average...some people get 18 INT and 5 CHA. In the real world you don't get to reroll. This is important to remember, because the next step is-

What am I going to do with what I've been given? Am I going to mope? Dominate? Mock? Encourage? Indulge? Lead? Inspire? Harass? Innovate? Whine? Quit?

There's no sense in making a bad choice. It's not like you'll feel better. Make a good choice and move forward. Yeah, this post isn't perfect, I'm out of time, sue me.
 

slugg

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
4,723
80
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^^ I'd say you're both right.

I wouldn't doubt that I'm making a few inaccurate correlations. It happens. But really, either way, it's not like I try to make excuses for myself. I'm happy with myself, I really don't care :p

I've grown up quite a bit, that's really the trick. Everything was so much harder before I matured, haha. Corny and cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason, right?

Point is, there are a lot of people who wish they had a super-brain... I'd just like for those same people to understand what they're really wishing for. I'm not saying I'm a genius (not even close!), or even smart, I'm just showing that I have difficulties and I'm not even at that level. I can't imagine what it'd be like to have an IQ of 225 or something crazy like that!
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
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Slugg, what you have written there kind of works with the theory that genius can cause insanity, or at least symptoms of it. That brilliant mind is still programmed by thousands or millions of years of evolution to want to be sociable; it knows that it wants to, and can't really fight it. I guess that'd be one other upgrade I'd want to my "ideal brain" - the ability to function as a true individual, none of this need for social interaction. Instead of compulsory, it would be optional.

Add to that a better "consciousness" - right now, it seems that, at least for me, well, I can't really hold too many thoughts in place at once. In my gifted class, they sometimes had us do logic problems. I hated those. I got stuck even on the basic ones. I'd read one passage, and in order to analyze everything, I'd need to hold multiple thoughts in short term memory at once to do so. Once I'd read the next bit of information though, the first one went away. I'd pause and recall it, but then the second one would vanish from memory. I struggled through the shortest ones, while everyone else (literally) could do the larger ones in their heads. For example, this one. 4x4. I had trouble on the simple 3x3 problems.

I call it consciousness - not sure quite how to describe it; the "processor" of your mind, which deals with incoming information, and really does the thinking. If that was more capable, it could accurately analyze more information at the same time. Part of the problem might be trying to make sense of too much information all at once, and it may not only get overwhelming, causing frustration, and then the damn emotional response screws things up more, but incorrect conclusions can be drawn when information is omitted either consciously or unconsciously just to allow it to be analyzed.

I guess the high IQ has a problem in a society where it is not normal. Take a modern human, put him in a society of humans from 100,000 years ago, and you'll get similar problems. Too smart to fit in, yet still, always present, is the urge to seek acceptance and be part of a group. Maybe not wish for a higher IQ, but for better control over base instincts. They really can be quite excessively irritating and distracting, maddening even.

But Slugg, it's good that you've finally found somewhere to feel that you fit in. I'm curious too, what did your IQ turn out to be? PM me if you don't want to post it here, if you don't mind of course.

I find myself just having difficulties choosing what to do. Everyone I know seems to have grand expectations of me; teachers, relatives, parents, friends. Yet I feel none of it myself, none of that confidence. Any time I encounter something that I know I am capable of, but it winds up not coming easily, it frustrates me. For example, calculus, my nemesis: A lot of it seems to be simplistic memorization. Memorize integral and derivative tables, memorize step after step after step, memorize which algorithms work on which equations. Too much memorization, not enough of what feels like genuine thinking. It feels like work a computer wouldn't break a sweat over, and indeed it is. I just hate the time wasted getting these damn neurons to encode information; once should be enough. Write once, read many. No, it's like a DRAM chip instead, it needs constant refreshing. I find that in itself to be very frustrating, and even moreso because I can't upgrade, can't do a firmware update, can't improve it at all, I'm stuck with and in it. And my preferred method to deal with frustration: give up.

So, what I'm getting at with the expectations, and got a bit sidetracked: I don't know what I want out of life. I know what everyone else expects of me, and so far, I have a feeling that that's the path I've been taking. I just don't know if that's good enough anymore. Too many choices, too little information immediately available, yet too little mental processing capacity and time should I acquire the information I would like.

I think it was summed up, and I don't quite remember it precisely:
"The more you know, the more you know you don't know."
If you're generally ignorant, your world is small, there's not much to think about. The biggest decision you ever had to make in your life dealt with choosing your favorite sports team, or your favorite pizza topping.
But the more you learn, the more you see that there are just so many possibilities, so many paths, with every aspect of your life, of existence, that it can become almost paralyzing.
 

Jack Ryan

Golden Member
Jun 11, 2004
1,353
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Originally posted by: mrjminer
The number right above what makes people legally retarded. I'd be a hell of a lot happier if I were stupid and could enjoy simple things.

:thumbsup:x10000000billion
 

habib89

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2001
3,599
0
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i dont' equate high IQ with lack of social graces, so i'd just choose the highest IQ i could possibly have.

as a note, i also don't equate high IQ with being super knowledgeable.. you have to gain knowledge.. high IQ just allows you to learn that stuff easier... i think it's perfectly reasonable to be a genius and still be "normal", however, could you be one of the great geniuses, and postulate new laws of physics, and still be "normal"?? probalby not.. but thats more due to being completely dedicated to one's passion than their high IQ...