If WMD existed, evidence would be widespread

[jackschmittusa]

It seems to me that if Iraq had WMD, there would be large amounts of corraborating evidence beyond the weapons themselves.
First think of the weapons themselves. You need:
production facilities
raw materials
secure transport equipment
secure storage facilities
combat distribution plans and resources

Next, think of deployment from a military standpoint.
Officers need to be trained on how, when, and where to use such weapons. They would need extensive training at a facility that should have many items such as: mock warheads, manuals, computer simulation programs, maps of exclusionary zones, etc..
There would need to be specially trained units who would be designated as "Chemical Rocket Battalion" or "Biological Artillery Battery" or some such. While this might not be the official name of the units for security reasons, there have to be refference lists as to who they are. These units would need training materials and facilities as well. You can't have them accidently covering Bagdad or the oil fields with a cloud.
Yes, they used chemical weapons a long time ago, but all of this training needs to be kept current not only as it pertains to new weapons and deployment methods, but to train new troops added to units and new officers who rise to command levels.
This seems like a lot of stuff to make disappear in a very short period of time. It also suggests a fairly large pool of people "in the know" about WMD from which there might be some who would curry favor by exposing what they know. It seems impossible to believe that all of this evidence was made to vanish under almost any conditions, let alone during a war.

 

[etech]

Marines from Lejeune find chemical suits

CAMP AS SAYLIYAH, Qatar -- U.S. Marines from North Carolina discovered chemical suits, masks and nerve gas antidote during a raid on buildings used by Iraq's 11th Infantry Division in the southern city of Nasiriyah, U.S. Central Command said Sunday.
After securing the two buildings Saturday, the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment from Camp Lejeune also found a large cache of weapons and ammunition in addition to more than 300 chemical suits, 300 gas masks, atropine injectors, two chemical decontamination vehicles and other chemical decontamination devices.
....
Also Saturday, British troops south of the city Basrah found a stash of Iraqi training equipment for nuclear, biological and chemical warfare -- including a Geiger counter, nerve gas simulators, gas masks and protective suits, according to British press reports.

One chemical found in the raid on the Iraqi ordnance facility was marked "sarin" -- a dangerous nerve gas -- and appeared to be a simulator used to test if sarin was in the atmosphere.

British troops also found nerve gas antidote, gas masks, plastic suits and other materiel.

Last week, Marines found chemical suits and masks, weapons and ammunition inside a hospital in Nasiriyah. U.S. Central Command said the hospital was being used as a military staging area for Iraqi paramilitary forces.

That operation seized more than 3,000 chemical suits with masks, Iraqi ammunition, and military uniforms as well as a T-55 tank on the compound. Marines also took 170 people prisoner.
"

The US and Britain do not use chemical warfare.

 

[Sternfan]

Great read etech but all of the Bush haters still will not care about this and by the time we do fine these chemicals they will say they were planted so we can't win. The world knew he had them, the UN knew and the 100's of thousands of people that were murdered by them knew it also. Its only the freaks on this forum that don't seem to get it.

 

[BOBDN]

The USA used chemical weapons in the Iraq invasion. The Iraqis stockpiled chemical weapon suits and geiger counters to fend off the US attack.

I have yet to see a chemical weapon suit used as a weapon. Or a geiger counter.

Where are the WMD that Bush and Rumsfeld swore in no uncertain terms were in Iraq in vast quantities?

They didn't exist. They were fabricated just like the story of the babies in Kuwait being taken from their incubators.

Wake up.....it's all a lie so they can advance their illegal goals. With citizens obtuse enough to believe this BS it's no wonder the USA has lost all credibility with its allies.

In the UK they're getting ready to nail Tony Blair for dragging them into a war under false pretences. I sincerely hope the US has the balls to do the same with Bush and Co.

Excerpts from John Dean:

Bush's statements, in chronological order, were:
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
United Nations Address
September 12, 2002
"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons."
"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."
Radio Address
October 5, 2002
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons."
"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."
"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States."
"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" - his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
October 7, 2002
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."
State of the Union Address
January 28, 2003
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
Address to the Nation
March 17, 2003

A Desperate Search For WMDs Has So Far Yielded Little, If Any, Fruit
Even before formally declaring war against Saddam Hussein's Iraq, the President had dispatched American military special forces into Iraq to search for weapons of mass destruction, which he knew would provide the primary justification for Operation Freedom. None were found.
Throughout Operation Freedom's penetration of Iraq and drive toward Baghdad, the search for WMDs continued. None were found.
As the coalition forces gained control of Iraqi cities and countryside, special search teams were dispatched to look for WMDs. None were found.
During the past two and a half months, according to reliable news reports, military patrols have visited over 300 suspected WMD sites throughout Iraq. None of the prohibited weapons were found there.

But, as Time magazine reported, the leads are running out. According to Time, the Marine general in charge explained that "[w]e've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad," and remarked flatly, "They're simply not there."

Let's get the impeachment process started!

 

[etech]

BOBDN

The USA used chemical weapons in the Iraq invasion. The Iraqis stockpiled chemical weapon suits and geiger counters to fend off the US attack.

What have you been smoking boy?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Sternfan
Great read etech but all of the Bush haters still will not care about this and by the time we do fine these chemicals they will say they were planted so we can't win. The world knew he had them, the UN knew and the 100's of thousands of people that were murdered by them knew it also. Its only the freaks on this forum that don't seem to get it.

Grow up. The key word in your little rant is "had". We all know Iraq had chemical and bilogical materials in the past. We all know Iraq used these weapons in the past. Knowing this, we also know that Iraq would have appropriate masks and suits and related handling gear. The only question is would Iraq keep the ABC gear if they destroyed their weapons. The logical answer is "no". Why would they?

A well-prepared military force would have this gear for defensive purposes, even if they did not have the weapons themselves. The United States carried such gear into Iraq, for example, even though we had no intention of using ABC weapons ourselves. Why? Because we would be stupid not to. We knew there was a chance we could face chemcial or biological weapons.

Even if Iraq completely abandoned their ABC programs -- and that's a big if -- there's no reason to destroy the protective gear. They paid good money for it; they might need it in the future. Iraq isn't exactly in the best neighborhood. It would be far more surprising to NOT find this gear.

The only part of etech's post that is potentially interesting is the training materials. It would be hard to tell whether they we also leftovers from earlier days, or whether they were still in active use.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: etech
BOBDN

The USA used chemical weapons in the Iraq invasion. The Iraqis stockpiled chemical weapon suits and geiger counters to fend off the US attack.

What have you been smoking boy?

There ain't no boys here son.

I'm paraphrasing the statement of doctors and nurses from hospitals where chemical suits were found.

The US did use chemical weapons in the Iraq invasion. Bush and Co. referred to them as crowd control agents. The UN refers to them as chemical weapons because that's what they are.

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: etech
Marines from Lejeune find chemical suits

CAMP AS SAYLIYAH, Qatar -- U.S. Marines from North Carolina discovered chemical suits, masks and nerve gas antidote during a raid on buildings used by Iraq's 11th Infantry Division in the southern city of Nasiriyah, U.S. Central Command said Sunday.
After securing the two buildings Saturday, the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment from Camp Lejeune also found a large cache of weapons and ammunition in addition to more than 300 chemical suits, 300 gas masks, atropine injectors, two chemical decontamination vehicles and other chemical decontamination devices.
....
Also Saturday, British troops south of the city Basrah found a stash of Iraqi training equipment for nuclear, biological and chemical warfare -- including a Geiger counter, nerve gas simulators, gas masks and protective suits, according to British press reports.

One chemical found in the raid on the Iraqi ordnance facility was marked "sarin" -- a dangerous nerve gas -- and appeared to be a simulator used to test if sarin was in the atmosphere.

British troops also found nerve gas antidote, gas masks, plastic suits and other materiel.

Last week, Marines found chemical suits and masks, weapons and ammunition inside a hospital in Nasiriyah. U.S. Central Command said the hospital was being used as a military staging area for Iraqi paramilitary forces.

That operation seized more than 3,000 chemical suits with masks, Iraqi ammunition, and military uniforms as well as a T-55 tank on the compound. Marines also took 170 people prisoner.
"

The US and Britain do not use chemical warfare.

All things that the US and British army use as well (geiger counters, masks, suits, etc)

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: Sternfan
Great read etech but all of the Bush haters still will not care about this and by the time we do fine these chemicals they will say they were planted so we can't win. The world knew he had them, the UN knew and the 100's of thousands of people that were murdered by them knew it also. Its only the freaks on this forum that don't seem to get it.

Ahhh it's hundreds of thousands now.

http://english.hsilai.org/merittimes/detail.asp?index=9393&page=C

5,000 last I checked. Use the right facts if you want your argument to sound convincing.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: etech
BOBDN

The USA used chemical weapons in the Iraq invasion. The Iraqis stockpiled chemical weapon suits and geiger counters to fend off the US attack.

What have you been smoking boy?

There ain't no boys here son.

I'm paraphrasing the statement of doctors and nurses from hospitals where chemical suits were found.

The US did use chemical weapons in the Iraq invasion. Bush and Co. referred to them as crowd control agents. The UN refers to them as chemical weapons because that's what they are.

Show me one report that claims this, ideally from a recognized media outlet. I don't believe you can, because I dont think they used them. In fact the military has been working to allow tear gas but it is currently prohibited by the geneva convention in warfare.

 

[Czar]

I'm not aware that the US used crowd control agents in Iraq, but there were talks before the war that they would not rule them out as a possibility.

 

[jackschmittusa]

So do you buy the protective gear before or after agents are used against you?

link

link

link

link

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: etech
BOBDN

The USA used chemical weapons in the Iraq invasion. The Iraqis stockpiled chemical weapon suits and geiger counters to fend off the US attack.

What have you been smoking boy?

There ain't no boys here son.

I'm paraphrasing the statement of doctors and nurses from hospitals where chemical suits were found.

The US did use chemical weapons in the Iraq invasion. Bush and Co. referred to them as crowd control agents. The UN refers to them as chemical weapons because that's what they are.

No one, including the links that jackschmittusa supplied has proven that any form of chemical was used by Allied troops in Iraq.

as for this,

I'm paraphrasing the statement of doctors and nurses from hospitals where chemical suits were found.

provide the link or where you got that "information".

 

[Czar]

about the chemical suits, this applies to some of them, not sure all of them
I heard on the bbc world service, an interview with an oil executive from kuwait, what he said after US troops found chemical suits near an oil site that chemical suits are routinely used when drilling for oil.

 

[DukeFan21]

What I don't understand is that if Iraq did not have any WMD, why did they have such a tough time allowing the inspectors to do what they wanted to, both a few months ago, and back in 1998?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: DukeFan21
What I don't understand is that if Iraq did not have any WMD, why did they have such a tough time allowing the inspectors to do what they wanted to, both a few months ago, and back in 1998?

pride and ego is my guess

 

[Zrom999]

Originally posted by: DukeFan21
What I don't understand is that if Iraq did not have any WMD, why did they have such a tough time allowing the inspectors to do what they wanted to, both a few months ago, and back in 1998?

Same reason you don't want the police searching your place even if you got nothing to hide.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Zrom999

Originally posted by: DukeFan21
What I don't understand is that if Iraq did not have any WMD, why did they have such a tough time allowing the inspectors to do what they wanted to, both a few months ago, and back in 1998?

Same reason you don't want the police searching your place even if you got nothing to hide.

When you are on probation you give up that right. Iraq agreed to the searches and inspections as a condition for ending the war. They broke that agreement numerous times.

 

[skylark]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: Zrom999

Originally posted by: DukeFan21
What I don't understand is that if Iraq did not have any WMD, why did they have such a tough time allowing the inspectors to do what they wanted to, both a few months ago, and back in 1998?

Same reason you don't want the police searching your place even if you got nothing to hide.

When you are on probation you give up that right. Iraq agreed to the searches and inspections as a condition for ending the war. They broke that agreement numerous times.

Did you ever consider Saddam runs Iraq like an iron fist? There is no "they." Did you ever consider that he's a defiant, self-centred SOB to the bitter end even if he had no secrets to hide from the UN/inspections? Same with Bush, he can be one SOB too. My way or no way at all. These kinds of people play politics with emotions and agendas. Dangerous combinations like TNT.

the US military forces has unpresidented, unrestricted access to Iraq since conquering Bagdad. All the pre-war intelligence reports and speeches spoke of 100% certainty and location of WMD sites. Surely, the search teams should have found concrete, undeniable evidence by now. The longer it takes to find WMDs, the more suspicious it looks.

 

[Moonbeam]

What I don't understand is that if Iraq did not have any WMD, why did they have such a tough time allowing the inspectors to do what they wanted to, both a few months ago, and back in 1998?
---------------------------------
Iraq was afraid that if the US knew it didn't have WMD that it would attack them as per the Doctrine of the New American Century. They had to pretend casualties would be so great on the American side that we wouldn't risk invasion. Naturally, the UN weapons inspectors cleared up that fear and allowed Bush to give the go ahead. I wish I could show you the internal memo's for this, but I have to protect my sources.

Hi skylark, long time nose.

 

[etech]

Did you ever consider Saddam runs Iraq like an iron fist?

Not any more.

 

[Tripleshot]

Originally posted by: etech

Did you ever consider Saddam runs Iraq like an iron fist?

Not any more.

Has anyone heard from Saddam lately? If that meglomaniac is alive, he would want an audience to vent his defience. I think he is dead and buried under rubble or vaporized from the blast that created that crator they are filtering through now.

And will the real Osama please stand up? Or is he nursing a gut wound in some Pakistani cave?



Lets now focus on the Hamas putz's that cry out for attention. Screw Palestinian State until the Palestinians reign in these mongral dogs of hate and desention.

 

[Orsorum]

I have to agree with Jackschmitt, logically it seems as though there would be a considerable amount of evidence - not a building full of protective suits (which it seems as if every nation would have, at minimum, regardless of whether they had a chemical weapons program). Programs like these (as far as I know) are not run in underground bunkers, they require too much equipment, supplies, and people for that.

But, of course, I am unknowledgeable and foolish.

 

[Sternfan]

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Sternfan
Great read etech but all of the Bush haters still will not care about this and by the time we do fine these chemicals they will say they were planted so we can't win. The world knew he had them, the UN knew and the 100's of thousands of people that were murdered by them knew it also. Its only the freaks on this forum that don't seem to get it.

Ahhh it's hundreds of thousands now.

http://english.hsilai.org/merittimes/detail.asp?index=9393&page=C

5,000 last I checked. Use the right facts if you want your argument to sound convincing.

The 5000 thousand you speak of happened in one city in one day, lets tally up all the dead via gas and chemicals and you reach a much higher number, get your facts straight and for the love of god stop the spin.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: konichiwa

Originally posted by: Sternfan
Great read etech but all of the Bush haters still will not care about this and by the time we do fine these chemicals they will say they were planted so we can't win. The world knew he had them, the UN knew and the 100's of thousands of people that were murdered by them knew it also. Its only the freaks on this forum that don't seem to get it.

Ahhh it's hundreds of thousands now.

http://english.hsilai.org/merittimes/detail.asp?index=9393&page=C

5,000 last I checked. Use the right facts if you want your argument to sound convincing.

I hope you aren't arguing that only 5,000 people were killed by Saddam.