If widespread violence breaks out in the Middle East how much blame falls on Trump?

[HomerJS]

Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump ( more than likely many others ) all accepted that Jerusalem was the capital of Israel.

The area has always been war torn. And probably always will be.

Anything and everything we have tried has at best been met with Very Limited or no success at all. Mostly the latter.

This Trump declaration makes no difference in the least. Other than all of the panty bunching.

You break it you bought it.

Its not uncommon for heads of State to say things for their own public consumption and do the opposite behind the scenes. Trump took the national stage and made a worldwide pronouncement for all. Not only that he's begun the process of relocating our embassy.

The reason diplomacy is so complicated its not always about how you perceive things. Almost every world leader told him not to do this and he did it anyway. Beat a hornets nest with a stick you are responsible for the swarm. He now owns the consequences.

What did the United States gain from this? Was it in our interests or just a bone for evangelicals?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

How does any of what you just said deal with what pcgeek and I have said?

"Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump ( more than likely many others ) all accepted that Jerusalem was the capital of Israel.

The area has always been war torn. And probably always will be.

Anything and everything we have tried has at best been met with Very Limited or no success at all. Mostly the latter.

This Trump declaration makes no difference in the least. Other than all of the panty bunching."

Is there something you disagree with there?

Yes. The characterization that Trump is only doing what should have been done long ago. They never intended it to be done. They knew presidents wouldn't do it due to the damaging nature of the act. Every president who has said anything about Jerusalem has always qualified it with the fact that it has to be part of a broader peace negotiation in the region. Read the waivers that have been signed in the past. Every president know how stupid this action was if it was just done unilaterally.

Saying "all presidents have said" while ignoring the fact they also qualified it with the peace process is only telling half the story.

 

[IronWing]

The Palestinians can have their own place just not in Israel.

Hence a two state solution, which Trump just made more difficult to achieve. Now if the Israeli army and settlers would pack up and move back to Israel, progress might be made in spite of Trump.

 

[dank69]

Totally not Trump's fault:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hamas-ca...response-trumps-jerusalem-plan-104911169.html

 

[pcgeek11]

You break it you bought it.

Its not uncommon for heads of State to say things for their own public consumption and do the opposite behind the scenes. Trump took the national stage and made a worldwide pronouncement for all. Not only that he's begun the process of relocating our embassy.

The reason diplomacy is so complicated its not always about how you perceive things. Almost every world leader told him not to do this and he did it anyway. Beat a hornets nest with a stick you are responsible for the swarm. He now owns the consequences.

What did the United States gain from this? Was it in our interests or just a bone for evangelicals?

Opinion piece. Thanks.

 

[pcgeek11]

Totally not Trump's fault:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hamas-ca...response-trumps-jerusalem-plan-104911169.html

Hamas is causing unrest?

Oh no! They have been doing it for quite some time before Trump was ever in office.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Hence a two state solution, which Trump just made more difficult to achieve. Now if the Israeli army and settlers would pack up and move back to Israel, progress might be made in spite of Trump.

Gentlemen this blood feud will continue no matter what concessions you make for the Palestinians. They will never be happy unless they can wipe out the Jews which will never happen.

 

[realibrad]

Yes. The characterization that Trump is only doing what should have been done long ago. They never intended it to be done. They knew presidents wouldn't do it due to the damaging nature of the act. Every president who has said anything about Jerusalem has always qualified it with the fact that it has to be part of a broader peace negotiation in the region. Read the waivers that have been signed in the past. Every president know how stupid this action was if it was just done unilaterally.

Saying "all presidents have said" while ignoring the fact they also qualified it with the peace process is only telling half the story.

Nobody characterized it as needing to be done. That was not said explicitly or implicitly.

To say it was never intended to be done would be false though, as clearly there was some intention to do it. It was desired, mainly by a set of core Republicans, but also by some Dems. Just because previous presidents have said that it should also be done with a peace negotiation has nothing to do with what was said by me and pcgeek. You are injecting a response to something that was not said.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Yeah, the calls for three days of rage has nothing to do with Trump’s statement.

People in that area of the world will look for any reason to go off. The sad part of this is that the surrounding Arab countries don't give a rat's a** about the Palestinians. Calling them pawns would overvalue them in the eyes of those countries.

 

[realibrad]

Gentlemen this blood feud will continue no matter what concessions you make for the Palestinians. They will never be happy unless they can wipe out the Jews which will never happen.

And the Jews will continue to take ownership of land where people are already living. Palestine is just as averse to peace as Israel. Kicking people out of their homes because you want to build something for your people is a great way to piss people off.

 

[FerrelGeek]

This.

Gentlemen this blood feud will continue no matter what concessions you make for the Palestinians. They will never be happy unless they can wipe out the Jews which will never happen.

 

[IronWing]

Gentlemen this blood feud will continue no matter what concessions you make for the Palestinians. They will never be happy unless they can wipe out the Jews which will never happen.

Ridiculous. Jews and Arabs lived side by side for centuries in that land.

 

[glenn1]

If the Palestinians aren’t mature enough to accept an embassy in Jerusalem then they sure as hell aren’t ready to negotiate peace. Let them be angry, not like they need any excuses anyway.

 

[IronWing]

If the Palestinians aren’t mature enough to accept an embassy in Jerusalem then they sure as hell aren’t ready to negotiate peace. Let them be angry, not like they need any excuses anyway.

Dehumanization is a great way to reach peace.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Dehumanization is a great way to reach peace.

Would you want your neighbors defining how you can use the rooms in your home? I think not just as Israel has the right to name their own capitol. The Palestinians want something that doesn't belong to them and are now raising hell over it.

 

[IronWing]

Would you want your neighbors defining how you can use the rooms in your home? I think not just as Israel has the right to name their own capitol. The Palestinians want something that doesn't belong to them and are now raising hell over it.

Jerusalem belongs to the Palestinians as much as it belongs to the Israelis.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I don't like trump, but honestly, I would blame the violence on the people who activly engaged in the disenfranchisement and deprivation of others. I would blame whoever is in power in the middle east that riles up the people. Trump is a bully and likely a fool and probably senile too, but, he's more likely just to be a scapegoat here.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Ridiculous. Jews and Arabs lived side by side for centuries in that land.

They did, but sadly, those days are gone and will remain that way until the surrounding countries stop using the Palestinians as cannon fodder.

 

[IronWing]

They did, but sadly, those days are gone and will remain that way until the surrounding countries stop using the Palestinians as cannon fodder.

And the Israelis abandon their policy of apartheid.

 

[blackangst1]

One country in the ME attacks another country in the ME and its a US POTUS thats responsible? Well, no. Not at all.

 

[glenn1]

Dehumanization is a great way to reach peace.

If you think relocating an embassy is creating "dehumanization" then you ought to relook at what that word means. If you think that excusing away bad behavior, violence, or willingness to engage in the peace process is OK because of an embassy relocation and want to call that "dehumanizing" then you're as much a part of the problem as anything.

 

[SlowSpyder]

If something happens on the other side of the world, how can we blame Trump?

More accurate thread title.

 

[IronWing]

If the Palestinians aren’t mature enough to accept an embassy in Jerusalem then they sure as hell aren’t ready to negotiate peace. Let them be angry, not like they need any excuses anyway.

If you think relocating an embassy is creating "dehumanization" then you ought to relook at what that word means. If you think that excusing away bad behavior, violence, or willingness to engage in the peace process is OK because of an embassy relocation and want to call that "dehumanizing" then you're as much a part of the problem as anything.

Your words are dehumanizing.

 

[glenn1]

Your words are dehumanizing.

I think the word you're looking for is "infantilizing" not dehumanizing. As in civilized people don't throw temper tantrums over embassies and Palestinians shouldn't be rewarded for misbehavior or the threat of it, being someone that excuses that behavior away is infantilizing them. Dehumanizing them would be saying something like what Arabs like to say about Israelis, stuff like "they're cockroaches." If you want to argue that fairness indicates we should move the U.S. Consulate for the Palestinian Authority from Ramallah or wherever it is to East Jerusalem I'd be fine with that also.

 

[Capt Caveman]

If the Palestinians aren’t mature enough to accept an embassy in Jerusalem then they sure as hell aren’t ready to negotiate peace. Let them be angry, not like they need any excuses anyway.

No other country has an embassy in Jerusalem. No reason to stir things up and no reason to spend the money and resources to do it other than to deflect.