If Trump really believed he was president...

[pete6032]

I go back and forth on whether Trump believes the election was stolen or not. I usually land on him knowing that he legitimately lost and he's just claiming fraud because that's his only play given the situation. I think if he truly believed he was still president he would continue doing presidential things like issuing executive orders, traveling abroad and claiming the presidency, etc. He might even try to make a breakaway congress. I haven't seen him do any of these things so I have to conclude he knows he lost. Thoughts?

 

[eelw]

Well he doesn’t have access to AF1. So can’t be than dense to believe his lie

 

[iRONic]

I’m in the Colbert camp, I don't speak that name, I don't think of him.

 

[Commodus]

I go back and forth on whether Trump believes the election was stolen or not. I usually land on him knowing that he legitimately lost and he's just claiming fraud because that's his only play given the situation. I think if he truly believed he was still president he would continue doing presidential things like issuing executive orders, traveling abroad and claiming the presidency, etc. He might even try to make a breakaway congress. I haven't seen him do any of these things so I have to conclude he knows he lost. Thoughts?

It's difficult to say. Trump is a pathological narcissist who believes he's the best and most important person ever, so it's easy to imagine that he really does think the election was stolen. He acted as if he had absolute power and support while in office, so it's hard to picture him acknowledging that he lost the vote.

At the same time, Trump is very much a grifter; this is the guy who regularly stiffs contractors, tries to fend off lawsuits with endless challenges and has been involved in more than one fraudulent scheme. He could be fully aware that he lost and just use the bogus election claims to soak up some of his debt.

 

[Captante]

I've never for a moment thought the Dumpster believed his "big-lie".... the man is a totally uncouth scumbag and a traitor to America but he's not "stupid" in any way when it comes to manipulation.

All he cares about is making OTHER folks believe it. (especially the one's that donate)

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I frankly think he's too stupid for there to be a discernable difference between 'I lost' and 'liars are telling me I lost'.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think he knows he legit lost, but I also think he legit thinks there was enough fraud that he shouldn't have lost as bad and perhaps enough that he could've still "won" like in 2016. I don't think he believes he won 2016, and I think its because he knows there were efforts to commit fraud by Republicans during it, and so he genuinely believes he didn't legitimately win then. I think he believed it would be enough to keep him in power in 2020.

Now I think it is all about keeping the grift going so that he keeps from getting prosecuted for the crimes he's been committing. He doesn't care about winning or not (that's merely there so he can pretend to save face, to him its no different than the made up bullshit about his golf game). Unfortunately it appears to be working. I don't think there will be enough movement to ever charge him with anything serious. He'll get some bullshit fines so some can claim they held him accountable but the major stuff he did wrong won't go anywhere.

I have a strong hunch that's because the 3 letter agencies have info showing that if he does get charged with such that it will trigger civil war by right wingers. As it is now, it most likely will just be far right terrorists that try to attempt anything, so if they believe if they just let it go it'll keep it from triggering others from doing anything. I'm not so sure that's true, but its the gamble they're willing to take.

 

[nOOky]

Trump is all about his brand, so such a huge loss he feels diminishes his brand. He knew it was coming, that's why he took pre-emptive measures to start his propaganda campaign ahead of his official loss, when the polls started showing him losing to Biden.

I understand his reasoning, given his character. I don't understand the true believers stupid enough to actually fork over money to a billionaire to fight the big steal, that's breathtakingly stupid.

 

[nickqt]

It doesn't matter if he believes that he legit lost or believes there was fraud and that he legit won.

Trump and his right-wing authoritarian enablers know that he should be in charge, everything else is just inconsequential details. That's the whole point of fascist totalitarianism.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It's difficult to say. Trump is a pathological narcissist who believes he's the best and most important person ever, so it's easy to imagine that he really does think the election was stolen. He acted as if he had absolute power and support while in office, so it's hard to picture him acknowledging that he lost the vote.

At the same time, Trump is very much a grifter; this is the guy who regularly stiffs contractors, tries to fend off lawsuits with endless challenges and has been involved in more than one fraudulent scheme. He could be fully aware that he lost and just use the bogus election claims to soak up some of his debt.

Much better said than what I was going to type.

 

[Moonbeam]

I have a strong hunch that's because the 3 letter agencies have info showing that if he does get charged with such that it will trigger civil war by right wingers. As it is now, it most likely will just be far right terrorists that try to attempt anything, so if they believe if they just let it go it'll keep it from triggering others from doing anything. I'm not so sure that's true, but its the gamble they're willing to take.

Makes perfect sense. It's the left that is basically unarmed and untrained in the use of scary weapons and the most liberal states that have made it that way for their citizens. The only fault in the logic I can see, though, is that when the fascists win there's not much to stop them from killing off the liberals anyway. I have a hunch those 3 letter agencies probably also don't worry too much about that potential because they will be facilitating the effort.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I go back and forth on whether Trump believes the election was stolen or not. I usually land on him knowing that he legitimately lost and he's just claiming fraud because that's his only play given the situation.

I think it's like that time in Breaking Bad / Better Call Saul when Saul/Jimmy was able to con two chicks to hook up with him when he said he was Kevin Costner because even he believed it.

 

[MrSquished]

It's hard to say. He is such a con man but also such a fucked up narcissistic sociopath I can't decide.

 

[HomerJS]

It's difficult to say. Trump is a pathological narcissist who believes he's the best and most important person ever, so it's easy to imagine that he really does think the election was stolen. He acted as if he had absolute power and support while in office, so it's hard to picture him acknowledging that he lost the vote.

At the same time, Trump is very much a grifter; this is the guy who regularly stiffs contractors, tries to fend off lawsuits with endless challenges and has been involved in more than one fraudulent scheme. He could be fully aware that he lost and just use the bogus election claims to soak up some of his debt.

Legally you can't claim fraud didn't happen despite overwhelming evidence, otherwise no fraud case could ever be prosecuted because the defendant could claim, "I didn't know__________"

 

[Amol S.]

Trump knows he lost. If he thought the other way around, he would have ended up on Jan 20th being dragged out by Secret Serivce out of the White House. Obviously he knew he lost fair and square.

But I really think we should push Trump out of our minds for a while and think about the issues in regards to if Democrats keep control of the Senate and House in 2022. If we loose them, especially the house, there is a high chance they may create some sham committee that they will call, The Committee to investigate the lies made by the sham Jan 6 committee of 117th congress. The sole motive of that committee would be to falsely claim that whatever Jan 6 committee said was a lie.

 

[Shamrock]

Well, he IS misusing the presidential seal to boost his businesses.

Trump Reportedly Misusing Presidential Seal To Boost Business At 4th Golf Course

This would not be the first time Trump mixed his office with his private businesses.

www.huffpost.com

 

[Fenixgoon]

Well, he IS misusing the presidential seal to boost his businesses.

Trump Reportedly Misusing Presidential Seal To Boost Business At 4th Golf Course

This would not be the first time Trump mixed his office with his private businesses.

www.huffpost.com

shocked /s

 

[sportage]

Our entire country has taken a step further into mass insanity when we find ourselves forced to listen, debate, and debug the insanity of Donald Trump. When we are forced to debate and actually consider the insane actions of Trump as sane and as plausibly sound, or to consider portions of this insanity as having factual merit, then.... society itself becomes part of the insanity.
Do you feel this is making you insane?

Someone so unstable as Donald Trump should have never been elected to such a high office in the first place. Now, Trump has turned out to be exactly what everyone feared and assumed, a total nutcase and.... A NUTCASE MAGET.

This is plain and simple.... Donald Trump is insane, his followers are insane, their insanity deems them a danger to society. They all need to be institutionalized, analyzed by professional psychiatrist, then medically treated by well trained professionals.

To put this insanity and acts of insanity into the hands of congress or the media or into the public domain is doomed to go nowhere nor will it end with any "sane" conclusion. We are not trained professional psychiatrist nor are the members of congress nor are members of the news media.

As intelligent American citizens, we should not be exposed to this incredibly insane tragedy instigated by incredibly insane people.
Insanity was never meant to become mainstream, but now it has become exactly that. The law is not going to save society from this, it was never designed to that. Attorney generals can not save society from this, and past attempts has already taken one toll that of AG William Barr.
William Barr DID NOT resign because he couldn't do his job, William Barr quit because Donald Trump WAS INSANE.

Appointing a committee of highly trained professional psychiatrist to handle this American tragedy just "might" be only real option remaining.
America is going insane. We don't need investigative committees nor attorney generals, America needs professional psychiatric help and America need that help damn fast.

 

[zinfamous]

He profited about $250 million on the claim of the stolen election, funneling donations into non-existent charities that were set up to help him defeat the stolen votes.

Yeah, he knows what he's doing.

I say good: I'm fucking glad he stole $250 million form his most desperate, gaslit shit-for-brains taint-fluffers, like Brandonbullshit and tajmababymurderer.

 

[HomerJS]

Trump knows he lost. If he thought the other way around, he would have ended up on Jan 20th being dragged out by Secret Serivce out of the White House. Obviously he knew he lost fair and square.

But I really think we should push Trump out of our minds for a while and think about the issues in regards to if Democrats keep control of the Senate and House in 2022. If we loose them, especially the house, there is a high chance they may create some sham committee that they will call, The Committee to investigate the lies made by the sham Jan 6 committee of 117th congress. The sole motive of that committee would be to falsely claim that whatever Jan 6 committee said was a lie.

They will do that and discredit all the work by the select committee. Fox News will work with them and the public will be fooled again.

 

[Commodus]

Legally you can't claim fraud didn't happen despite overwhelming evidence, otherwise no fraud case could ever be prosecuted because the defendant could claim, "I didn't know__________"

Oh, of course — ignorance isn't an excuse. It's just that Trump is a distinct blend of ignorance and malice.

 

[cytg111]

I must admit I am undecided as well, if anyone is able to gaslight themselves into believing their own lies… Its Trump. Out of all the people that night telling him it was over he turned to whiskey drunk Rudy who said fraud and rolled with it… But there is also evidence that he set up the fraud case long before the actual election, and that suggests intent.
I think maybe he believes the other side is cheating, so that he has to cheat better to win.

 

[woolfe9998]

Assessing someone's state of mind is more complicated than a binary proposition of, either he knew or he didn't know. Trump's personal psychology is such that he really, really cannot stomach the idea of losing something. Most important to him is not the facts, but that other people believe he won. So he puts on a face that he is confident that he won. And he wants to convince himself of this, not just everyone else.

Best bet is that he has doubts, that there's a tiny rational part of his mind which occasionally intrudes, telling him this is probably all bunk. But he's adept at quickly vanquising this part of his mind as he's been doing it all his life. Anything that conflicts with this idealized image he's built for himself is jettisoned very fast. This is why he was angry at aides telling him the fraud claims were bunk, because it causes that part of his brain to sqawk, and he doesn't want to listen to that part of his brain.

 

[Commodus]

Assessing someone's state of mind is more complicated than a binary proposition of, either he knew or he didn't know. Trump's personal psychology is such that he really, really cannot stomach the idea of losing something. Most important to him is not the facts, but that other people believe he won. So he puts on a face that he is confident that he won. And he wants to convince himself of this, not just everyone else.

Best bet is that he has doubts, that there's a tiny rational part of his mind which occasionally intrudes, telling him this is probably all bunk. But he's adept at quickly vanquising this part of his mind as he's been doing it all his life. Anything that conflicts with this idealized image he's built for himself is jettisoned very fast. This is why he was angry at aides telling him the fraud claims were bunk, because it causes that part of his brain to sqawk, and he doesn't want to listen to that part of his brain.

That sounds like as good an explanation as any. I'd just add that the chance to profit from the lie makes it that much harder for Trump to even contemplate admitting that he lost, even privately. Why be honest when it means giving up the grift?

 

[blackangst1]

I go back and forth on whether Trump believes the election was stolen or not. I usually land on him knowing that he legitimately lost and he's just claiming fraud because that's his only play given the situation. I think if he truly believed he was still president he would continue doing presidential things like issuing executive orders, traveling abroad and claiming the presidency, etc. He might even try to make a breakaway congress. I haven't seen him do any of these things so I have to conclude he knows he lost. Thoughts?

He's just a troll. Simple as that.