If trickle down economics no working, will trickle up economics be gooder?

[lotus503]

Basically this though it's is far more complicated. The problem is that we don't have a real long term economic plan that changes as conditions change in a way that will make things better. Instead we get arbitrary changes that a group of people think will help based on their ideology rather than the reality of the situation.

You touch on something here, only its not just that we dont have a long term economic plan. Its that our economic model is not sustainable.


Supply doesnt create demand, as long as that is the economic model we focus on it will fail.

 

[sandorski]

I dont know, alot?

What does that have to do with Reagan Borrowing from Japan to outspend soviets? Unless you think all of that spent, borrowed money didnt stimulate growth albiet artificially.

In fact Reagan did exactly what they all do, when there is lack of real demand, they create it by borrowing and spending.

Not to mention that Reagan didn't have the same degree of a Recession to deal with.

 

[Phokus]

Reagan's recovery was also better after 4 years of trickle down. Much, much better than today's economic recovery.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/06/news/economy/obama_reagan_recovery/index.htm

Weird how conservatives would embrace a man who raised taxes 13 times and tripled the deficit.

 

[Engineer]

Repeal the so called "free trade" bullshit and force fair trade and we won't be talking about trickle up or trickle down as the middle class moves the entire economy up because they have better, wealth creating jobs. Until then, you're just farting in the wind.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Weird how conservatives would embrace a man who raised taxes 13 times and tripled the deficit.

And I think it's weird that you make up shit and assume things I never said. Reagan had his good points and his bad points.

 

[lotus503]

Weird how conservatives would embrace a man who raised taxes 13 times and tripled the deficit.

thing is there are situations where supply side theory is good for the economy, there are others where Demand side side is better.

the problem with our country is that we fail to use the proper theory in the proper circusmstances in favor of dogmatic policy lobbied for by the rich.

when you examine the laffer curve for example there are situations where reganomics is beneficial, but its only at part of the curve with certain precursors.

sound economic policy would be to use the theory appropriate for the situation at hand. which is what we dont do, because stupid fucks buy into the whole dogmatic crap.

 

[Phokus]

And I think it's weird that you make up shit and assume things I never said. Reagan had his good points and his bad points.

Hahahahahaha, you're such an idiot. If a democrat had the same economic policy as Reagan, you'd call for his head.

Shit, even pulling the troops out after the Marine Barracks in Beirut was bombed or the Iran Contra Scandal would have gotten a Democratic president tried for treason.

 

[thraashman]

Reagan's recovery was also better after 4 years of trickle down. Much, much better than today's economic recovery.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/06/news/economy/obama_reagan_recovery/index.htm

Considering Reagan had a much smaller recession to deal with, had a completely different cause of the recession which was much easier to resolve, and had a Democrat Congress that unlike today's GOP isn't willing to sacrifice the well-being of Americans to score political points. To say the recovery had anything to do with trickle-down is simply false.

 

[BurnItDwn]

And where do you intend to get this money?



Which works great until someone needs capital to put up a new factory. Unfortunately you took all the money away from the people who could build that factory.

The correct answer is you need balance. In the current situation we are facing a lack of demand and so trickle down economics will not work.

It's called a bank.
They can go to the bank and get a loan to build the factory.

It's kinda like how me or you can go to a bank to get a loan to buy a house.
The amount of money available for investment is related to the amount in savings and the margin ratio. You don't need 1 guy with 1000000000000 to invest. You can have a bunch of regular joes with like 5k or 10k in savings or checking accounts which can fund investment.

 

[momeNt]

The only way to make any economics work is to have a directed economy. It doesn't matter if its trickle down or trickle up, predictability is what is key. If I give a corporation $1bil, they can do whatever they want with it, no predictability. If I give a corporation $1bil and say they must hire x amount of workers with that money and pay them y wages, then there is predictability and the economy will prosper.

Conversely, if I give $1bil to Americans, they can spend it wherever they want, the economy won't prosper because investment won't know where to go and they'll be trying to play catch-up. If I give $1bil to Americans and say they must now do something specific (certain amount of money goes to particular stocks, certain must be purchases at x and y stores), and it is known to the market, then we have predictability.

So what is important is not where the money starts, but where it ends up, and the only way that is achieved is through government directed investment.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Look at the large economies that are thriving today.

Few, if any, of them are truly free market enterprises with lax regulations. It's close government cooperation with corporations in a mutually beneficial relationship. Germany's auto industry is an excellent example of this.

 

[waggy]

I don't think either will work very well. I do think a combination of the two is in order. While the poor do spend money faster they also tend to falter on debt a lot more.

but of the two i think helping the poor would be better over all for the economy then trickle down

 

[momeNt]

Look at the large economies that are thriving today.

Few, if any, of them are truly free market enterprises with lax regulations. It's close government cooperation with corporations in a mutually beneficial relationship. Germany's auto industry is an excellent example of this.

So... get a few dead weight nations to drag down the value of a cross-national currency and reap the export profits? Break up the Euro and make the NATO currency, just make sure the USA is the strongest of those nations and we'll be just fine.

 

[cybrsage]

Trickle up poverty works...and Obama wants to ensure it is done on a national scale...

 

[lotus503]

Trickle up poverty works...and Obama wants to ensure it is done on a national scale...

thanks for contributing to a discussion about economics with your partisan douchery.

 

[zanejohnson]

of fucking course trickle up works and trickle down doesn't...


we could look at our paychecks, compared to our employers earnings and see this.

 

[zanejohnson]

how the fuck can anyone think supply makes demand??

wtf?

it's like.. i got a quarter sack of weed.. no money to buy more... my dealer has a pound..

fucking nothing changes...

now the price of a quarter sack goes lower.. i have more weed, dealer has my money and the rest of the sack...

jeez this isn't rocket science.

 

[cybrsage]

thanks for contributing to a discussion about economics...

You are quite welcome. Thanks for being a nice person.

 

[cybrsage]

how the fuck can anyone think supply makes demand??

If no one wanted weed, how many dealers would you find selling weed?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

how the fuck can anyone think supply makes demand??

wtf?

it's like.. i got a quarter sack of weed.. no money to buy more... my dealer has a pound..

fucking nothing changes...

now the price of a quarter sack goes lower.. i have more weed, dealer has my money and the rest of the sack...

jeez this isn't rocket science.

Obviously many posters here have no firm grasp on the actual theory behind supply side economics but they somehow feel entitled to comment on it.

Increased supply breeds demand because increased supply of goods and services promotes competition amongst producers vying for the limited dollars of consumers.

Which results in producers lowering their prices through competition and thus these lowered prices through increased competition as a result of increased supply allows consumers to benefit and incentivizes them to purchase goods and services which would be otherwise too costly for them to purchase or to purchase in increased volume. All this economic activity then creates a demand in production by producers looking to compete with their rivals by supply more of what consumers want or need at prices which allow them to compete with their rivals.

 

[Agent11]

They need to reform the tax code so that hiring Americans is more profitable than shipping cheap crap from the other side of the freaking planet.

But yes, trickle down only works if strong protectionism is present. That is not the case. So trickle it up.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Considering Reagan had a much smaller recession to deal with, had a completely different cause of the recession which was much easier to resolve, and had a Democrat Congress that unlike today's GOP isn't willing to sacrifice the well-being of Americans to score political points. To say the recovery had anything to do with trickle-down is simply false.

Oh really? Do you have any facts to back that up or are you just making up shit as you go along?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Hahahahahaha, you're such an idiot. If a democrat had the same economic policy as Reagan, you'd call for his head.

Shit, even pulling the troops out after the Marine Barracks in Beirut was bombed or the Iran Contra Scandal would have gotten a Democratic president tried for treason.

Such an intelligent response!

The irony is strong with you.

 

[nehalem256]

You touch on something here, only its not just that we dont have a long term economic plan. Its that our economic model is not sustainable.


Supply doesnt create demand, as long as that is the economic model we focus on it will fail.

Demand does not create economic growth so long as what is demanded is supplied by China.

In fact that might be the real problem there. No economic model can be sustainable so long as you suffer from a trade deficit.

 

[lotus503]

Demand does not create economic growth so long as what is demanded is supplied by China.

In fact that might be the real problem there. No economic model can be sustainable so long as you suffer from a trade deficit.

Thats a fair statement and a big part of the problem. it also limits our ability to react to asset inflation.