If there are no unlocked SKL under quad-core, could G3258 be better still?

[Essence_of_War]

There's one group I found where a new piece of tech is INFERIOR and NOT BETTER to the one it replaces yearly since 2012. See this pattern below (all desktop form factor for budget market):

Celeron D 365 (2007) < Celeron 450 (2009) < Celeron G470 (2012) > Celeron J1800 (2014) > Celeron N2840 (2015) > Celeron N3050 (2016)

So, yes, I do hide three new-in-boxes working Celeron G470 in my closet I paid only $20 each clearance price (used only one so far, so two left), because I can't find anything better and faster at this moment.

Where are the G530-550T, real dual-cores, at the same TDP.

Where are the G1610/1620T.

Where are the G1820/1840T.

Why are you jumping from Core architecture Celerons to Bay Trail? Core Celerons have continued to be produced since 2012.

 

[StrangerGuy]

I only mention the estimated price numbers on what the used Haswells worth 5 years later as general information, and I don't assume anyone here takes my post seriously. Most of the enthusiasts users here are educated and little above middle-class anyway, so they could care less on how much they like to spend freely and enjoy their gaming rigs.

But I still stand behind on the Pentium G3258 holding its highest resale value. Purchase price is incredibly small or minimal for less than $40 that you don't need to worry how much it worth 5 years later. Now, compare to i7-4790K, if you paid $350 for it, you would easily lose $200 a few years later. Get the picture now...

Yeah, you really think you can sell your at uberz brand-new G3528 anywhere near retail price 5 years later when a used 4790Ks would go for like ~$100 judging by Ebay price patterns.

The mental hospital is that way.

 

[Denithor]

Larry this is an even worse idea than buying up X99 motherboards as an investment.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Larry this is an even worse idea than buying up X99 motherboards as an investment.

Well, the idea behind buying X99 mobos, was in case the 18-core chips dropped in price, making them affordable in a few years. Even a few years from now, an 18-core Haswell (even if it isn't overclockable like 1366 Xeons are, that was a Derp of my idea), would be potent for things like distributed computing. And having a new motherboard, as opposed to a used and abused one off of ebay, might not be a bad idea.

But enough about that.

I was more or less wondering (in this thread), if it would be worthwhile to buy maybe a couple more G3258 combos, while they're still available, in the event that Intel either doesn't release any overclockable Skylake CPUs below an i5 quad-core, or they don't release Pentium / Celeron at all, and fill that lineup with Atom (currently, Braswell, which basically sucks worse than Bay Trail).

It seems like we won't even know about that until Q4.

Edit: I wasn't suggesting in either case trying to turn a monetary profit, like waltchan was suggesting in his thread.

 

[Sweepr]

I was more or less wondering (in this thread), if it would be worthwhile to buy maybe a couple more G3258 combos, while they're still available, in the event that Intel either doesn't release any overclockable Skylake CPUs below an i5 quad-core, or they don't release Pentium / Celeron at all, and fill that lineup with Atom (currently, Braswell, which basically sucks worse than Bay Trail).

It seems like we won't even know about that until Q4.

There will be Skylake Celeron/Pentium CPUs according to leaked roadmaps. Not sure who started this nonsense.

 

[ShintaiDK]

There will be Skylake Celeron/Pentium CPUs according to leaked roadmaps. Not sure who started this nonsense.

Yep. And even tho you post roadmaps showing it and so on. Somehow people start the same BS again.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yep. And even tho you post roadmaps showing it and so on. Somehow people start the same BS again.

That vague thing. Doesn't really say much, does it? Other than Skylake is coming. No indication of any unlocked budget parts at all. Except that equally-vague "T3" platform that is new to Skylake. Unlocked i3? We can hope, I suppose.

 

[sm625]

I dont think any of those parts will be worth very much 5 years from now. Assuming AMD is still around, you're probably going to be able to buy a low end 2 core 4 thread Zen APU with 1000 shaders and 16GB of HBM and 128GB of HBF for around $100. It probably wont have the absolute single thread performance of a G3258 @ 4.4GHz, but it will be a so much better all around value.

 

[waltchan]

Aren't the G470 CPUs single-core? And you can't find anything better and faster? If the G1820 Haswell has twice the cores, and is faster, for a little over twice the price, wouldn't that make it a better value?

Do you really have customers where $20 extra would make or break a $200-300 build? For twice the performance?

Celeron G470 is a single-core with hyper-threading (2 threads), and works like a dual-core. It's technically a Core i3 but with one core missing, clocked 1.00GHz lower, and without HD4000 graphics. It's priced lower than Celeron G530, G1620, G1820, and any of dual-core models. It was aimed at the cheapest, starter models, which was discontinued on January 2014 and replaced with Bay Trail Celeron J1800/J1900.

While I know G470 doesn't get much love here, this one is the fastest and best starter Intel processor I can find, and it is irreplaceable (unless Intel release a Skylake Celeron single-core with dual hyper-threading (4 threads in one core).

Celeron G530, G1610, and G1820 are the next group upgrade, a little more expensive, and priced $15-$20 more than Celeron G460, G465, and G470. OEM PC makers charged $70 more on G1620 than G470 when it was last available on Black Friday 2013 ($199.99 vs. $269.99, last time I remember).

 

[waltchan]

Congrats. But is that $10 worth that time and effort? Oh, by the way, you can grab a G530/540/550/620/630 for ~$20-30 off of eBay. Real dual core and faster and cheaper.....

I just bid and won a used Celeron G460 (slowest LGA1155 w/ HT) for $12 shipped, thank you for that reminder. Processor depreciation continues to kick in fast for LGA1155, and it's best not to pay more than $15 right now. I don't pay attention to the dual-cores because they have been succeeded to G1820, and now G1840/G1850 today. It's a separate group (I do buy it sometimes, and it's great).

I'm more interested in the starter group at this moment (G470 > J1800 > N2840 > N3050), and it's nothing but downhill (and headache) for me every year.

 

[waltchan]

Where are the G530-550T, real dual-cores, at the same TDP.

Where are the G1610/1620T.

Where are the G1820/1840T.

Why are you jumping from Core architecture Celerons to Bay Trail? Core Celerons have continued to be produced since 2012.

Dual-core is the next upgrade group, and priced a little more than single-core group. Here it is:

Celeron E1200 (2008) < Celeron E3200 (2009) < Celeron G1101 (2010) < Celeron G530 (2011) < Celeron G1610 (2013) < Celeron G1820 (2014) < Celeron G1840 (2015)

or the vice versa:

Celeron D 365 (2007) < Celeron 450 (2009) < Celeron G440 (2011) < Celeron G470 (2013) > Celeron J1800 (2014) > Celeron N2840 (2015) > Celeron N3050 (2016)

 

[VirtualLarry]

Your obsession with low-end exceeds even mine, I must admit.

I built a client a freebie S775 ITX rig, with a Celeron 440. That's a 2.0Ghz C2D single-core, for those keeping track. Theoretically equivalent to a 4.0Ghz P4 Northwood, minus HyperThreading.

Let me tell you, the lack of a second core, REALLY made it bog down. Anti-virus, Windows Update, Firefox when one tab's JS would chew up 100% CPU, it was really damn painful to use. Even WITH an SSD.

Replaced it with a Celeron 847 (1.1Ghz Sandy Bridge dual-core), things were MUCH better.

No way would I ever sell someone a PC with a single-core ever again.

Edit: This is just my way of saying, that single-core CPUs are just false economy, given modern apps and OSes.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I am curious, if you economize on the CPU that much, what kind of primary storage do you use? Refurb HDDs? NoS HDDs? Small SSDs? (32GB for under $30 at TD recently, new) Medium SSDs? (I try not to use under 120GB SSDs in my paid-for systems, and sometimes I use 60/64GB SSDs for the freebie rigs.)

 

[waltchan]

No way would I ever sell someone a PC with a single-core ever again.

Edit: This is just my way of saying, that single-core CPUs are just false economy, given modern apps and OSes.

I think I mentioned already that Celeron G470 is a single-core w/ hyper-threading (2 threads in one core), and works like a dual-core a little. I installed several G460/G465/G470 already, and they always come in better than expected in terms of performance compared to Bay Trail and upcoming Braswell. These were dramatic improvement from Celeron 450 Conroe single-core and before that (they're terrible). Bay Trail (J1800) it replaced has only 55% of single-thread speed of 554 vs. G470 at 992.

 

[waltchan]

I am curious, if you economize on the CPU that much, what kind of primary storage do you use? Refurb HDDs? NoS HDDs? Small SSDs? (32GB for under $30 at TD recently, new) Medium SSDs? (I try not to use under 120GB SSDs in my paid-for systems, and sometimes I use 60/64GB SSDs for the freebie rigs.)

I use 120GB SSDs (all new) plus some used 250GB and 320GB 2014 mfg. year WD Blues for less than $20 each.

 

[soccerballtux]

Just musing. The G3258 (with the right board - important), can hit 4.3-4.4Ghz. Which is a phenomenal value in terms of bang-for-buck, for desktop computing, emulation, web browsing, and other things.

Will there be any SKL parts with similar value? Because if there isn't, I foresee an increasing demand for the G3258 CPUs (plus, they take existing DDR3 RAM!), while they are still made.

I know waltchan suggested buying some (if you can get them under MSRP), and stockpiling them.

you and your G3258...

if they made a quad core version I would be all over that.

 

[dark zero]

Yep. And even tho you post roadmaps showing it and so on. Somehow people start the same BS again.

Didn't you read your own post?
Check the image... The Celeron is on PLANS, so there is the chance or the risk that Intel ditch the Core Celerons once at all.

 

[soccerballtux]

Your obsession with low-end exceeds even mine, I must admit.

I built a client a freebie S775 ITX rig, with a Celeron 440. That's a 2.0Ghz C2D single-core, for those keeping track. Theoretically equivalent to a 4.0Ghz P4 Northwood, minus HyperThreading.

Let me tell you, the lack of a second core, REALLY made it bog down. Anti-virus, Windows Update, Firefox when one tab's JS would chew up 100% CPU, it was really damn painful to use. Even WITH an SSD.

Replaced it with a Celeron 847 (1.1Ghz Sandy Bridge dual-core), things were MUCH better.

No way would I ever sell someone a PC with a single-core ever again.

Edit: This is just my way of saying, that single-core CPUs are just false economy, given modern apps and OSes.

part of me thinks Microsoft puts code into Windows that simply inserts useless for-loops everywhere that get skipped if the CPU is fast enough. Example being closing tabs in Internet Explorer 11 is about 30% more responsive on my CPU at 4.6ghz than at 4.3ghz. Then there are equivalent layers like "no dual core? slow him down", and another tier between quad core and octo core.

I explicitly uninstalled all my Windows Updates on W7 on my old netbook because after the first 50 or so it was like they packaged back in all the bloat they intially removed from Vista. I would log in and a bunch of search indexing services would start up that weren't there with the fresh install, and that went away when I uninstalled the updates.

Similarly, when I updated from SP1 to whatever they're on now on my desktop, the same IE11 tab closing became about 30% slower. That was the main reason I took the EVGA ACX cpu cooler upgrade-- so that I could get the extra speed / push my overclock a little bit further.

I'm looking forward to Windows 10 and won't be updating it for some time...

I should write a performance metric software that monitors
a). background processing occurring
b). general latency between actions taken on system like "from the time user clicks X on tab to time garbage collection completes"
so that I could complain officially about it

 

[cbn]

I am curious, if you economize on the CPU that much, what kind of primary storage do you use? Refurb HDDs? NoS HDDs? Small SSDs? (32GB for under $30 at TD recently, new) Medium SSDs? (I try not to use under 120GB SSDs in my paid-for systems, and sometimes I use 60/64GB SSDs for the freebie rigs.)

I use 120GB SSDs (all new) plus some used 250GB and 320GB 2014 mfg. year WD Blues for less than $20 each.

I like $22 320GB Western Digital NoS drives for a very low end build (eg, refurbed pre-built)--> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=37454049#post37454049

But I am watching to see how far the 120/128GB SSD and 240/256GB SDD prices drop.

(Maybe with a DRAM less design the 120/128GB gets to $30 at some point within the next six to twelve months)

 

[waltchan]

I am curious, if you economize on the CPU that much.

I like the Athlon II X2 B24 3.00 GHz dual-core for $7.99 shipped better than any of Celeron G400 series, which can be bus-overclocked up to 3.70 GHz max on stock voltage. These Sandy Bridge Celeron G400s are still too expensive at $20 used and can't be overclocked.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331607787622

Pair this Athlon B24 with refurb ASRock N68-GS4 FX for $27.55 shipped, and you're ready to go in maximizing performance at most minimal cost.

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch.asp?scriteria=78796BA&pagetitle=ASROCK N68-GS4 FX Socket AM3+/ NVIDIA GeForce 7025/ DDR#.VbAfmOlRHcc

Or a new Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 with HDMI for $41.99 after rebate:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...28565&cm_re=78lmt-usb3-_-13-128-565-_-Product

 

[escrow4]

I'm actually chucking the G1850 I have today. Tossing up between an i3 4170 or something stronger. The fluidity you get with gruntier processors is missing and 720p60/1080p60 drops frames (HTML5 to boot) on Youtube and it isn't the connection. Cheap is interesting but its cheap for a reason.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm actually chucking the G1850 I have today. Tossing up between an i3 4170 or something stronger. The fluidity you get with gruntier processors is missing and 720p60/1080p60 drops frames (HTML5 to boot) on Youtube and it isn't the connection. Cheap is interesting but its cheap for a reason.

Having second thoughts about the budget escapade?

What happened to 4K only taking 20% CPU, but 1080p60 drops frames? Sure it's not the internet, or YouTube?

 

[iiiankiii]

I just bid and won a used Celeron G460 (slowest LGA1155 w/ HT) for $12 shipped, thank you for that reminder. Processor depreciation continues to kick in fast for LGA1155, and it's best not to pay more than $15 right now. I don't pay attention to the dual-cores because they have been succeeded to G1820, and now G1840/G1850 today. It's a separate group (I do buy it sometimes, and it's great).

I'm more interested in the starter group at this moment (G470 > J1800 > N2840 > N3050), and it's nothing but downhill (and headache) for me every year.

If $15 is too expensive for a faster and better dual-core CPU, why did you horded the slower and more expensive G470 at $20? I'm confused.

 

[waltchan]

If $15 is too expensive for a faster and better dual-core CPU, why did you horded the slower and more expensive G470 at $20? I'm confused.

Good question. I'm saving and hiding all the G470s in my closet because Intel hasn't announced a single-core w/ hyper-threading successor yet (save the better later while Intel continues to put out the Braswell crap), while bidding up and using only G460 and G465 at this moment. Next year, G460 will reach $8 shipped, and that's what I desperately want right now.

 

[cbn]

The next five years will show Pentium G3258 has the highest resale value and will hold 90% of its value you paid at Fry's Electronics. Five years later, Pentium G3258 will be priced at $35 used, i3-4130 at $27, and Celeron G1820 at $15. You'll see...

I wonder how well the TIM (under the heatspreader) holds up with these G3258s (and other Haswells for that matter) 5 or 6 years into the future?

Also, if it does degrade, I wonder how many people will refresh that TIM? (or know how to refresh the TIM)

P.S. Sandy Bridge and prior on LGA 115x was soldered.