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"If the U.S. did not support Israel, 9/11 would not have happened"

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even if U.S did stop support israel,
it would not stop terrorists, majority of middle east income goes to very small % of people (say loyal family, saddam hussien...etc).
and there are alot poor people, and alot of thing that they need but don't have the money to built.
when we stop support israel, terrorists would just ask for money and military weapon instead.
"give us$$$ and F-22, or we'll knock out your 3 jet on 3 building"


 
Texmaster said:
You may not like his conclusion but he premise is absolutely right. Without the US supporting Israel, the Arab states would once again try to rub out Israel as they tried in the 50s and 60s.

I absolutely agree with this. If it sounded like I was arguing that the fighting would stop if the US stopped supporting Israel, I didn't mean that at all. I know that the fighting will continue, regardless of whether the US supports Israel.
 


<< If it sounded like I was arguing that the fighting would stop if the US stopped supporting Israel, I didn't mean that at all. I know that the fighting will continue, regardless of whether the US supports Israel. >>



Totally Agree.
 
First off, I have seen this nonsense elsewhere, where people say "oh well, if it was your homeland, you'd be pissed too"

DAMN STRAIGHT i'd be pissed, but would i be blowing myself up? hell no!

i don't care who's holy land this is, it could be unholy for all i care. nobody is in the right as far as i'm concerned, they should both put the guns down and STFU.

have you ever seen two retarded people fight? and they're making a huge scene and everybody just wishes they would both just be quiet? that's what this is like.
 


<< So, basically these people are saying that it would have been better to let the Jews of the past get slaughtered even more.
You did a might fine job of putting words into people's mouths. I don't think many people believe that at all.

Sure, the area of Israel is the holy land of the Jews. However, if you were Arabian, and you were kicked out of your house and home and forced to move, wouldn't you be a little upset? I realize that the UN had more to do with this situation than the people that live in Israel. It's a lot easier to attack Israel than the UN though.

I'm not saying I side with the Palestinians. I don't side with either side. It's just that I hear so many people and media sources talking as if Israel is not at fault at all, and that bugs me. >>



Think of it this way. If I know that by drinking and driving, I risk the chance that I will kill someone innocence and yet I still drink and drive -- what can you conclude? You might not be able to say that I went out there to kill someone on purpose, but who cares? The end result is the same as if I did go out to kill someone on purpose.

If someone knows that if we never supported Israel and the end result of this non-support would have been the slaughter of millions of Jews, and yet they still advocate the policy of not supporting Israel -- what can you conclude? He/she might not be an anti-semite but the end result is the same as if he/she were an anti-semite.

I'm not talking about everyone who questions our support of Israel -- I said some of them. These are the ones who try to cloak themselves with moral arguments, condemns Israel at every chance and yet ignores anything bad the Palestinians have done.
 


<<
<< There is something more to the anti-Americanism. To hear Egypt's rulers, the visable hatred of Americans is caused by U.S. support for Israel. Don't believe it. It is motivated by envy. Anti-Americanism is a convenient excuse for the economic and political failures of this bitter land". >>



TOTALLY AGREE. And that goes for the rest of the Arab nations. They were once the shining power in the known world and now they are not. It is pure envy, everything else is a smoke screen.
>>



I totally agree too. And the situation is worse if you are a religious zealot. Think about it. You believe your God is the one true God. Certainly, believers of this God would have a much better life than non-believers. If this wasn't so, then it would certainly be a threat to a religious zealot's belief system. "God, why are the non-believers more powerful and richer than us?" "Is it because you don't exist? Or maybe I'm worshiping the wrong God? No!!! This must not be true! The only reason they are richer and more powerful than us is because they are evil and are using evil tricks! I must destroy them!"

 
if we had nuked the entire middle east region once it became a hotbed for fundamentalism 9/11 would not have happened.
rolleye.gif
 


<< And the situation is worse if you are a religious zealot. Think about it. You believe your God is the one true God. Certainly, believers of this God would have a much better life than non-believers. If this wasn't so, then it would certainly be a threat to a religious zealot's belief system. "God, why are the non-believers more powerful and richer than us?" "Is it because you don't exist? Or maybe I'm worshiping the wrong God? No!!! This must not be true! The only reason they are richer and more powerful than us is because they are evil and are using evil tricks! I must destroy them!"


 >>

Hmm Interesting observation. I guess that is just another in a long line of tragedies that can be attributed to man's belief if Mythology.
 


<< We crashed a spyplane in China's borders and we overtly lend support to Taiwan despite the fact that it's against China's wishes.
Do you see Chinese fringe groups lobbing airplanes at civilian targets? I think not.
We have wronged many people and nations and many nations have wronged us.
But there's only a select group of nutcases who choose to react to wrongdoings with terrorism.
I won't name names like Bin Laden and Arafat, but know that these nutcases exist.
 >>



Nice post.

My mom once told me that under British rule there were signs in Hong Kong that said, "No dogs or Chinese allowed". And yet I don't recall any Chinese blowing up innocent British men, women and children and then treating these suicide bombers as heros. There is just no excuse for such tactics.
 


<<

<< We crashed a spyplane in China's borders and we overtly lend support to Taiwan despite the fact that it's against China's wishes.
Do you see Chinese fringe groups lobbing airplanes at civilian targets? I think not.
We have wronged many people and nations and many nations have wronged us.
But there's only a select group of nutcases who choose to react to wrongdoings with terrorism.
I won't name names like Bin Laden and Arafat, but know that these nutcases exist.
 >>



Nice post.

My mom once told me that under British rule there were signs in Hong Kong that said, "No dogs or Chinese allowed". And yet I don't recall any Chinese blowing up innocent British men, women and children and then treating these suicide bombers as heros. There is just no excuse for such tactics. >>



And in the US there used to be signs on beaches saying "No Jews or Dogs".
Support of anything Jewish is a new concept in this country.
The US knew about the slaughter of the Jews and still roadblocked immigration to this country.
They knew about it and still didnt enter the war until the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
They knew about it when they turned away boat loads of Jewish people who had escaped from Europe.
It was common for Jews to be fired because of their religon.
Many within the government didnt support the UN Partition, mainly because the US didnt want to piss of the Arab countries because of oil.

Once Israel become a country and started developing nuclear weapons that changed, with the backing that the US gives Israel I guess they think if things get out of hand over there they can give the 'nuke 'em' request and it will be carried out.

Israel wasn't above using terrorist tactics before the UN Partition. Infact a couple of the leaders of Israel after the partition were members of such groups and still went on to win Peace Prizes.

Just because you challenge popular opinion doesnt make you an Anti-Semite, it just means you arent gullible and are willing to acknowledge the fact that perhaps there are faults on both sides.

A good number of Israeli historians are now questioning their own history books saying that they think its about time they reflected what really happened, not just the fairy tales which are spoon fed to Israeli children in school.

The same thing needs to happen with the Palestinians.

A Israeli reporter has since published an article about an interview that he did with one of the head dudes during the altercation at Golan, he said that one of the main reasons was because Israeli farmers were pressuring the government for more fertile land. The reporter literally buried the article for twenty years.


Getting rid of Sharon and Arafat would be a good start to any possible peace process.

As for 9/11 and innocent people getting killed on both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, its bad sh*t whichever way you look at it.
 
<<if we had nuked the entire middle east region once it became a hotbed for fundamentalism 9/11 would not have happened. >>

Its not too late.

Getting rid of Sharon and Arafat would be a good start to any possible peace process.>>

AMEN!
 
[sarcasm]...and those darn Jewish gave Hitler a bad name. And if it wasn't for those silly Hawaiians the US would have never been dragged into WWII...[/sarcasm]
 


<< [sarcasm]...and those darn Jewish gave Hitler a bad name. And if it wasn't for those silly Hawaiians the US would have never been dragged into WWII...[/sarcasm] >>


Silly ? Its a fact - the US knew what was going on long before the bombing of Pearl Harbor and still turned away Jews who were fleeing the terror caused by Hitler and his henchmen.
 


<< If the U.S. did not support Israel, 9/11 would not have happened >>




That is completely untrue and anti-semetic. The US has been in Israel since day 1 of its formation as a state. It could have happened any day in the 55 years or so of Israel's existence.



<< You see them blowing up the eiffel tower or big ben? no? You really think they like western Europe a lot more than the US? No. They didn't attack us jsut cause they don't like us, they attacked us cause we support thier enemy >>



They actually do like Europe more than the US. Parts of France and Germany actually harbored some terrorists. I guess you over looked the nwes broadcasts about it in the weeks following 9/11. But thats why they didnt blow up the Eiffel Tower, its because France supports them and they like them.
 


<< But thats why they didnt blow up the Eiffel Tower >>



DOH!! I thought it was because there were waiting for French for finish it.
 
There will NEVER be peace in that land. Christianity, Judaism, and Muslims consider that land holy. There's been war there since BCs. Christianity gave it 4 or 5 shots (crusades) then gave up. The only real way is to get everyone to accept that eachother has a right to exist and ditch the idea of a "national religion" in that area (when this happens I'll go to hell and learn how to snowboard while I'm there) or extend the mediterranian sea to the east a bit. The whole "just give it a couple generations" mentality hasn't worked. It's been over 2000 years, there's still fighting.

The whole thing goes back to a family fued that happened so long ago noone can trace thier lineage back to the original family w/ 100% certainty (or even 30%).
 
Bin Laden never ever claimed he did anything to show solidarity with the Palestenians; until we said that we were coming after his ass. This is a common theme in the Mid East. Remember Saddam? He invades Kuwait for the oil. When we try to throw him out, he starts firing scuds at Israle and starts claiming that he did it all for the Palestenians. Before that, he never gave the Palestenians any support in terms of money or arms. Blaming everything on our friendship with Israel just makes it easy for the Middle Eastern dictators to get popular support. Take any country in that region. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran...
 
Yep, Bin Laden's first "reason" was always the American presence in Saudi Arabia that started with the gulf war and continues to this day.

It's not who we support, it's our entire culture and way of life.
 


<< Blaming everything on our friendship with Israel just makes it easy for the Middle Eastern dictators to get popular support. Take any country in that region. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran... >>

Perhaps, but why does it get those dictators popular support? The OBLs and the Husseins (take your pick) might not give a sh|t about the Palestinians, but I'll bet the man on the street in Cairo or Riyadh does.
 
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