If the rapture were to occur today, how many of you left behind would believe?

[conjur]

Originally posted by: matt426malm

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: matt426malm
yikes, none of this has much do with the actual question

That's generally what happens when my fan club joins in the fun. They just can't help but turn a thread into a flamefest. I'm their favorite target

Well, when you walk across a shooting range dressed as a bullseye....

That's right, because having an unpopular opinion means I'm wrong. The majority is always right, of course.

conjur I have no idea why you argue with this clown. Seriously just ignore him.

Because it's amusing watching how a fundamentalist justifies their insanity.

 

[wyvrn]

In regards to the original post:

If the rapture happened and we knew what is was, then everybody not insane would be forced to believe in God and the Bible. But that is the problem with religion, there is no concrete evidence and religion serves a purpose to only a segment of the human population. There are people, like myself, who do not need religious faith in order to live productive and happy lives on a daily basis.

Now, if I could show indusputable proof that Jesus was not the son of God, would the Christians renounce their faith in God and the Bible? Or would proof that God does not exist (an impossibility) be required?

We are still early in the discovery process. Either scenario is just as likely, in my opinion. So in the meantime I chose, like Buddha (no I'm not Buddhist either), to worry only about what I can affect and not affiliate myself with a particular religious belief.

 

[TiziteLayinLow]

ive read numerous posts about people not being able to play this or do that.. heaven isnt about toys and games.. lol even though im a big toy type person as well.. yes you will have them at will and then it wont be as fun.. but thats not the point..

if youve ever had someone die in your life that was close to you then going to heaven is much more than having any ps2 game you could ever want, its about joining back with that person and sharing good times together playing those ps2 games... lets leave the materialistic approach out of this one.

i believe in god, heaven and hell and to be honest if you dont, what else do you have to loose? by being christian atleast you have that chance you could be right and be safe in the end, and if you are nothing, you advantage in the aspect of.... hmmm.. nothing.. unless you love to lie, steal, kill.. which even those people can be forgiven and accepted to heaven..

just my 2 cents guys..

 

[RabidMongoose]

I have to say it again...why is everyone arguing with a kid who wants to go to Japan and be an anime voice over actor. And he doesn't even know Japanese.

 

[matt426malm]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: matt426malm

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: matt426malm
yikes, none of this has much do with the actual question

That's generally what happens when my fan club joins in the fun. They just can't help but turn a thread into a flamefest. I'm their favorite target

Well, when you walk across a shooting range dressed as a bullseye....

That's right, because having an unpopular opinion means I'm wrong. The majority is always right, of course.

conjur I have no idea why you argue with this clown. Seriously just ignore him.

Because it's amusing watching how a fundamentalist justifies their insanity.

Flyer walking around tokyo with a red fro that is amusing, this is just anoying

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: TiziteLayinLow
ive read numerous posts about people not being able to play this or do that.. heaven isnt about toys and games.. lol even though im a big toy type person as well.. yes you will have them at will and then it wont be as fun.. but thats not the point..

if youve ever had someone die in your life that was close to you then going to heaven is much more than having any ps2 game you could ever want, its about joining back with that person and sharing good times together playing those ps2 games... lets leave the materialistic approach out of this one.

i believe in god, heaven and hell and to be honest if you dont, what else do you have to loose? by being christian atleast you have that chance you could be right and be safe in the end, and if you are nothing, you advantage in the aspect of.... hmmm.. nothing.. unless you love to lie, steal, kill.. which even those people can be forgiven and accepted to heaven..

just my 2 cents guys..

Because believing in a fallacy would be a travesty to myself. It would be an utter waste of my time.

How about NOT believing and then just living life as a good person? Respecting others and loving one's family and friends. There'd be no more judging of man by man. No more wars in the name of God.

 

[przero]

"Because believing in a fallacy would be a travesty to myself. It would be an utter waste of my time."

Are you really SURE it is a fallacy?

You willing to stake everything thing on the theory that ALL this came from primodial soup and a big bang? That takes much more faith than belief in God.

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: conjur
Symbolic of man's quest for faith. For example, the following are purely stories and are not fact:

Garden of Eden
Noah's Ark
Jonah swallowed by a whale
Parting the Red Sea
Manna from heaven

How can your prove something like that though?

How can you prove Garden of Eden existed when it disappeared after Adam and Eve sinned?

How can you prove a man got swallowed by a whale?

How can you prove the red sea was once parted?

How can you prove manna once feel from Heaven?

Noah's Ark is the only possibility that could be proven, and I believe it has been to some extent or another.

The only way you can prove them is if they were written down somewhere by someone. Oh wait, they all were....

Jesus was a space alien

There...someone wrote something. It MUST be true!

If you really believe that man/woman first appeared on earth and were capable of language and talking to serpents, then I have some oceanfront property in Kansas ripe for the picking!

The manna found in the desert is a substance exuded from insects and plant lice.

The "parting of the Red Sea" was merely the Jews passing to the north of the sea at a time when the reef surface was dry and passable.

And, if you believe Noah's Ark has been proven, I'd LOVE to see that proof.

I never thought of that before! God probably didn't either, he must not be real

The "parting of the Red Sea" was merely the Jews passing to the north of the sea at a time when the reef surface was dry and passable.

That reminds me of a joke I hear quite a bit from church members

I'm doing this from my memory so I might screw it up, but here goes:

The pastor is speaking to the church about how Moses parted the Red Sea to allow the Israelites to pass. When the congregation hears this the bust with excitement and start yelling "Amen! God is good!"

An athiest over hears the pastor and stands up and says "You know that's not really true. The "parting of the Red Sea" was merely the Jews passing to the north of the sea at a time when the reef surface was dry and passable."

The congregation bursts with excitement again and yells "Amen! God is good!" The Athiest is utterly confused trying to figure out what is so good about that, as he just undermined Moses parting the Red Sea. He asks the congregation what they are excited about and say "God created a tidal wave, stopping Pharoh and his advancing army when the reef surface was dry and passable!"

haha, ok so I borrowed some of what conjur said, but you get the just of it

conjur what you believe is strictly up to you. You sound like you have a good, strong belief and you really know your stuff, I commend you for that.

I feel I have a strong belief too and we could go back and forth all night. However, I am not going to argue with you when it's obvious from you and flyermax arguing that it's going to get us nowhere.

Have a good night.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: przero
"Because believing in a fallacy would be a travesty to myself. It would be an utter waste of my time."

Are you really SURE it is a fallacy?

You willing to stake everything thing on the theory that ALL this came from primodial soup and a big bang? That takes much more faith than belief in God.

As I bid a good night, no, it's FAR more believable than something made up thousands of years ago out of ignorance of science.

Scientists have already created the basic chemicals that formed life (amino acids)

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: przero
"Because believing in a fallacy would be a travesty to myself. It would be an utter waste of my time."

Are you really SURE it is a fallacy?

You willing to stake everything thing on the theory that ALL this came from primodial soup and a big bang? That takes much more faith than belief in God.

As I bid a good night, no, it's FAR more believable than something made up thousands of years ago out of ignorance of science.

Scientists have already created the basic chemicals that formed life (amino acids)

Scientists have a long way to go before they really understand the "what when where why" of life though. That's why evolution is (and, imho, will always be) a theory.

And I am off to bed...

 

[MazerRackham]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
I have to say it again...why is everyone arguing with a kid who wants to go to Japan and be an anime voice over actor. And he doesn't even know Japanese.

ROFMAO!!! Yeah no kidding.

Flyermax2k3: why do you keep referring to god as "G-d"?? Why leave out the "o"?? Until you answer this question this thread has no merit.

 

[wyvrn]

Originally posted by: przero
"Because believing in a fallacy would be a travesty to myself. It would be an utter waste of my time."

Are you really SURE it is a fallacy?

You willing to stake everything thing on the theory that ALL this came from primodial soup and a big bang? That takes much more faith than belief in God.

Sigh... people always want to pit science and religion against each other. First of all, both are theories. We have no more proof of Big Bang than any God. Arguing one questionable theory against another is asinine.

 

[matt426malm]

Originally posted by: TiziteLayinLow
ive read numerous posts about people not being able to play this or do that.. heaven isnt about toys and games.. lol even though im a big toy type person as well.. yes you will have them at will and then it wont be as fun.. but thats not the point..

if youve ever had someone die in your life that was close to you then going to heaven is much more than having any ps2 game you could ever want, its about joining back with that person and sharing good times together playing those ps2 games... lets leave the materialistic approach out of this one.

i believe in god, heaven and hell and to be honest if you dont, what else do you have to loose? by being christian atleast you have that chance you could be right and be safe in the end, and if you are nothing, you advantage in the aspect of.... hmmm.. nothing.. unless you love to lie, steal, kill.. which even those people can be forgiven and accepted to heaven..

just my 2 cents guys..

What about challenge, none of that in heaven. It just "over" and sure you can do whatever you want, but that's the probelm. There's no journey to getting things you want you just get everything. Wouldn't you get bored by this. I mean it may be great compared to earth. Once there and comparing every day to another they'll all just be the same. It would get old. How can you have joy exist seperate from the alternative.

I've lost loved ones but this idea doesn't suit well with me. Also, let's say judgement day everyone's off earth. I think a lot of man's achievements in the arts and science are solutions require adversities struggles for them to come from, no struggles in heaven none of the fruit of it.

I'd take a well lived life on Earth over heaven.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal
The rapture is when God comes for all the people who are saved and believes in him. Everyone else is left behind for the upcoming armageddon.

I'm just asking hypothetically, if it was to occur, would yo be looking for the nearest church for answers? Or would you still not believe in God?

For those of you who have read the Left Behind series of books, just imagine that happening, what would you do if you were left behind?

I hope this does not turn into a flame fest.

Just a counter-question: If the Rapture does not occur, would you recognize the Second Coming?

IMO, the Rapture is total bunk, invented to appease the lazy. Part of the Dogma of, "Don't worry, be Happy". No one escapes, I'd go as far to say that those expecting to escape are part of the reason for the necessity of the Tribulation.

 

[CaptianScooby]

revelation is not a book to the jews on how to deal with the romans. if you read it you can tell it is not this and yes it belive that the rapture will occur and that people will be left behind but I am more concerned with the second coming of Christ where the archangel will weild his sword and the blood of the armies of the earth will be over 2 feet deep and stretch for 100's of miles. It is said that only the fool says in his heart that there is no God and on that day no one from janitor to executive to a hunter from a back woods tribe in Africa will doubt that Christ is LORD. Now that is worht worrying about

 

[Greyd]

Response to Conjur:

Ok just to clarify, as I was rereading all this - I reliazed I totally forgot my train of thought. Let me see if this right.

1) You initially asserted that Revelation is conisdered symbolical and not a forecast for the future. That you thought that most Christians don't believe in it literally. Where I said that most Christians do. You seem to indicate that Catholics don't believe in literal interpretaion either?

All the following organizations including the Catholic church claim the word of God as inspired and literal. The links I provided to you in ADDITION to the Catholic church believe that Revelation is a forecast.

Catholic bible beliefs

I think your mistake was when your claim indicated that the majority of Christians believe that Revelation was NOT a forecast. If you had said "some" or "part" of Christians believe this, then I would have agreed with you. However, the majority of those considered to be professing Chrsitians (not simply people who go to church) but who really try to live a life defined as a Christian believe in the literalism of the Word of God. (including Revelation)

In addition, another problem occurs when you address interpretation of Scripture. There are varying interpretations to Scripture. We learn messages of faith, living Christian life,etc from events like the Red Sea, Fall of Jerhico,etc. (as you yourself had claimed) In addition to the INTERPRETATION of these passages to give us such lessons, they are taken literally. By BOTH the conservative evangelical groups I listed AND the Catholic church.

The groups I listed in addition to the 60,000,000 catholics would seem to be a majority don't you think?

In addition, the PBS link you provided has tons of people who are considered "liberal" in their interpretation of Scripture,purposes,etc. I don't see a single reference to any scholars considered conservative in their theology. I have found that most public universities only teach a very liberal defintion and description of Christinainty when it comes to theology.

Finally, i would like to say that I was glad to debate this all with you. however, I have a feeling that despite my evidences and arguments you won't really change your mind. Neither will I. So now the htread seems to be quickly deterioating into bickering where logic has no play and as a result, this is my last post in this thread. It was interesting.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: conjur
I'd assume they were abducted by aliens...not gone to some make believe "heaven"

Where is heaven, btw, in the clouds? The asteroid belt? Alpha Centauri? Elizabeth Hurley's bedroom?

And that, my friends, is the great deception of Revelation. The world will be deceived into believing that "aliens" created mankind and that they are our gods. Why else all the sudden interest in life in space? Gotta prepare the sheeple, right?

People have been talking about apocalypse and accusing everything of being great deceptions for hundreds of years. Earth orbits sun? Great deception! Evolution? Great deception! All men are created equal? Great deception!

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: TiziteLayinLow
ive read numerous posts about people not being able to play this or do that.. heaven isnt about toys and games.. lol even though im a big toy type person as well.. yes you will have them at will and then it wont be as fun.. but thats not the point..

if youve ever had someone die in your life that was close to you then going to heaven is much more than having any ps2 game you could ever want, its about joining back with that person and sharing good times together playing those ps2 games... lets leave the materialistic approach out of this one.

i believe in god, heaven and hell and to be honest if you dont, what else do you have to loose? by being christian atleast you have that chance you could be right and be safe in the end, and if you are nothing, you advantage in the aspect of.... hmmm.. nothing.. unless you love to lie, steal, kill.. which even those people can be forgiven and accepted to heaven..

just my 2 cents guys..

I'm tired of saying this.. YOU CANNOT CHOOSE WHAT YOU BELIEVE. It's not a matter of "you have nothing to lose". What if I told you that you have nothing to lose by believing in Santa Claus? That's true isn't it? Now believe in Santa Claus and maybe you will get presents.

 

[Triumph]

For two thousand years, consistently, there have been groups of people claiming that they are living in end times. And every single one of those groups has been wrong.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
You talk to God? No matter how you look at it, the bible is a secondary source, written by humans. It's been translated and retranslated and edited so many damned times that it's rediculous to even think it's REMOTELY close to the original text. God did not write the bible. PEOPLE DID.

Actually, the Bible is one of, if not THE, most accurate Ancient texts in existence today. There are nearly 24,000 manuscripts, compared to 643 of The Illiad by Homer, or 7 of Plato's writings. Not to mention, the time gap between the date the Bible was written and the earliest known manuscript is much smaller than just about every other book. The gap is approximately 50-100 years, compared, once again, to the Illiad with a 400 year gap.

The accuracy of the Bible is rarely disputed, even by historical scholars.

 

[sillymofo]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: EyeMWing You talk to God? No matter how you look at it, the bible is a secondary source, written by humans. It's been translated and retranslated and edited so many damned times that it's rediculous to even think it's REMOTELY close to the original text. God did not write the bible. PEOPLE DID.

Actually, the Bible is one of, if not THE, most accurate Ancient texts in existence today. There are nearly 24,000 manuscripts, compared to 643 of The Illiad by Homer, or 7 of Plato's writings. Not to mention, the time gap between the date the Bible was written and the earliest known manuscript is much smaller than just about every other book. The gap is approximately 50-100 years, compared, once again, to the Illiad with a 400 year gap. The accuracy of the Bible is rarely disputed, even by historical scholars.

Jeez... I wonder why historical scholars rarely disputed the bible, the last guy that said the earth was round got pwned by the church... any one else?

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: Triumph
For two thousand years, consistently, there have been groups of people claiming that they are living in end times. And every single one of those groups has been wrong.

In the words of Hypocrite2K3 "Amen to that"

I could have swore this was all supposed to end back in 2000

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: conjur


Hmm...and calling non-believers "sheeple" is not flame-baiting?

Hypocrite.

...not to mention quite ironic too.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: conjur


Hmm...and calling non-believers "sheeple" is not flame-baiting?

Hypocrite.

...not to mention quite ironic too.

From what I understood they were the Lambs of God and we were the wolves

 

[bluearyus]

I don't normally post on ATOT, but this thread really disturbed me;

First off: I'm not christian, I don't believe in Hell and i'm fairly religious (Hinduism).
I didn't even know there was a religious meaning to rapture before this thread.
But I've lived with many religious christian people.
I've also met and talked to their parents who are preachers.

Never once was my faith, my salvation or religion ever questioned.
No one ever came up to me and said "hey join the winning team so you won't go to hell!"

WHY?

BECAUSE OF Respect and Tolerance. Both of which Flyermax2k3 seems to completely lack.
Calling other people unrighteous and unworthy illustrates a total lack of respect for other people's beliefs.
If everyone would have a little more respect and tolerance, we wouldn't have these religious flame wars.

What i see from this thread is a person trying to defend his very insecure religious belief. I'm not saying his beliefs are wrong;
but that the reason for his posting can be interpreted as insecurity of his own faith.
Why else would you find the need to justify it to people on the internet and become the moral and religious authority in the thread?

Bottom Line for Flyermax2k3: don't change your religion, Change your attitude.