If the Nintendo rumors are true, won't Nintendo be in the same situation?

[zerocool84]

Even with the next round of console's, we'll still be stuck mostly with 720p stuff. 1080p is very taxing on a system. Even high end video cards will sometimes hiccup on some games at 1080p.

 

[Tom]

consoles have to work with tvs. There's little point in a mass market console with more power than what's required for 1080p.

And developing more complex games requires more time, which means more money.

What incentive is there for a more powerful console ?

How can it be sold in large numbers ?

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Ever heard of Chrono Trigger? Need I go on?

Yep. I played that for the first time ever about a year ago, and it is way better than anything that came out this gen on consoles.

 

[ImpulsE69]

It really shouldn't matter. Neither Sony or MS have any plans on releasing a new console anytime in the near future. Are they in the works? Probably..but we're talking probably a year or two after the Wii-U release. They SHOULD be more powerful, but graphically..shouldn't be much more than they are now except 1080p for everything....

 

[zerocool84]

consoles have to work with tvs. There's little point in a mass market console with more power than what's required for 1080p.

And developing more complex games requires more time, which means more money.

What incentive is there for a more powerful console ?

How can it be sold in large numbers ?

Because consoles today have trouble even running games at 720p let alone 1080p. Even the next round of consoles will have trouble running stuff at 1080p.

 

[mizzou]

Wii U is such an interesting system. Hopefully it blows away current gen hardware so that before PS4 and XBOX1080 or whatever their names are come out, they will easily port to the Wii's system without any adjustments.


Honestly, Nintendo should just revert to a handheld hardware company and focus on software and peripheral development. They haven't had a dominating console since, I'm thinking, Super Nintendo.

 

[ImpulsE69]

What do you mean. The Wii did dominate the market, except these days many people have multiple consoles instead of just 1.

 

[Beev]

I remember when they announced the Revolution and people said it would fail and that Nintendo should just become a software company like Sega did

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Even with the next round of console's, we'll still be stuck mostly with 720p stuff. 1080p is very taxing on a system. Even high end video cards will sometimes hiccup on some games at 1080p.

hogwash

the vast majority of my ~80+ some games (including many DX10 and DX11 titles) I can run 1080p with very aggressive IQ settings (we're talking 16x AA and 16x AF) and still be able to properly feed my 120Hz monitor, let alone running it on a 60Hz TV.

The few games that would hiccup on my single GTX580 at 1080p for a 60Hz screen are inefficient games that attack graphical prowess through clumsy brute force methods. What's more is these games really aren't optimized for a specific set of hardware like console games are.

Now while 1080p is 2.25x more pixels, it would really only take two generations of GPU power to more than make up for that discrepancy alone while keeping game complexity the same. And we're talking at least 4 generations between the PS3/360 and their next gen counterparts to add textures and polygons on top of that.

And if Nintendo is using an R700 derived GPU that would give them that 2-3 generation cushion ahead of the 360/PS3 so they should at least be able to run games on par with 360/PS3 complexity, but in 1080p 4xAA.

 

[iluvdeal]

i have read tons of rumors that the new console will be on par with the ps3/360, but if that is the case and then Sony and MS are close to releasing new system soon then Nintendo will be leap frogged once again. And if Nintendo doesn't change up their horrid online system, they will never pull away people from MS/Sony

Pull away? Have you seen the console sales figures for this gen? While HW geeks are concerned with specs, the numbers that are important to companies are the sales figures and their balance sheet. Nintendo would not mind at all being the same situation in the next console gen. The Wii proved to them they didn't have to get into a HW war, that's a battle they smartly chose to avoid. They'd go the way the way of Sega if they tried to fight that battle against MS and Sony.

If anything, MS and Sony learned the most from Nintendo this gen. For example, I don't see Sony being willing to take a big loss on each console for the PS4 like they did with the PS3 when it came out.

 

[zerocool84]

hogwash

the vast majority of my ~80+ some games (including many DX10 and DX11 titles) I can run 1080p with very aggressive IQ settings (we're talking 16x AA and 16x AF) and still be able to properly feed my 120Hz monitor, let alone running it on a 60Hz TV.

The few games that would hiccup on my single GTX580 at 1080p for a 60Hz screen are inefficient games that attack graphical prowess through clumsy brute force methods. What's more is these games really aren't optimized for a specific set of hardware like console games are.

Now while 1080p is 2.25x more pixels, it would really only take two generations of GPU power to more than make up for that discrepancy alone while keeping game complexity the same. And we're talking at least 4 generations between the PS3/360 and their next gen counterparts to add textures and polygons on top of that.

And if Nintendo is using an R700 derived GPU that would give them that 2-3 generation cushion ahead of the 360/PS3 so they should at least be able to run games on par with 360/PS3 complexity, but in 1080p 4xAA.

I said some games. Games like Metro 2033, Stalker: Clear Sky, and and a few others.

 

[RPD]

Super Metroid, Super Mario Kart, Link to the Past, Super Street Fighter Turbo, Final Fantasy 3 (6), Megaman X, Super Castlevania IV.

Again, the quality of games on SNES was way above that of the current generation.

This plus Killer Instinct, Mario RPG. Also, I believe the first system with match making with the Xband.

 

[PCboy]

Ever heard of Chrono Trigger? Need I go on?

QFT

 

[magomago]

Consoles are limited by the HDTV resolution so you can only have 1080p resolutions at best. I think currently shutter based 3D graphics are not there yet so not being able to display at 120fps is not a huge deal. We're at a stage where console graphics get harder and harder to make a noticeable difference in terms of how well each console can display graphics. Art direction and graphical presentation becomes much more important to make your game stand out visually. Honestly, even Sony and Microsoft is going to have a hard time making graphics stand out with their new consoles.

IMHO, games today are all about graphics and to a large degree gameplay has stagnated. I know in another thread people got excited by some of the new games coming out on the PS3 but they were sequels and while pretty didn't look like they offered anything new. At least with the Mario and Zelda games you can say Nintendo has continually strived to differentiate and expand the gameplay. Rarely does Nintendo make the prettiest game but they have always attempted to make the best playing games. I think the next gen of consoles will have games that need to differentiate themselves by having great gameplay.

Your post is full of fail disguised as a rationale idea.

Art direction is absolutely important and plays a bigger role than graphics. I won't dispute that point, nor will I argue otherwise. In this current generation of PS3 vs Xbox, I agree that the graphical differences are generally not that great, and presentation of the games make a much bigger difference.

However, the final limitation on a console isn't resolution by any means. 1080p doesn't mean you can magically render everything in the world. Go look at the world of PCs where game resolution and graphical quality are decoupled. Go take a look at some BF3 videos, and tell me that PS3 or Xbox360 is going to be able to pull that off; hint: it is not. It will require very powerful consoles (PS4 and Xbox3) to pull off the same level of texture and graphical quality at 1080p that current consoles will not. Hell most games render at 720p (note: i don't care because I don't even see the difference between 720p and 1080p) and some render at even less than that.

What I agree with is that for the next generation the target resolution is most likely going to be 1080p. 1080p for sure, and I would hesitate to say that it should be 120fps only because I guarantee that 3D will be part of the equation. But at the minimum we know it will be 1080p 60fps.
That said, these console better be able to push the level of graphics even further. It is always about art direction ~ but that art direction will always have some more freedom when they aren't concerned about what they can achieve technically, and are more concerned about thinking creatively. Sure the technical limitations that exist today vs back in the psx era are completely different, but they still exist nonetheless.

If Sony and MS OOONLY push graphics as the difference (again) for this generation of consoles coming out in 2013/14, then I'll start to agree. However, they've seen what Nintendo has done and even if they don't strike out new ground, you can bet that they will atleast copy what nintendo has done.

 

[magomago]

Ever heard of Chrono Trigger? Need I go on?

Did you know that CT is one of the most graphically beautiful and intensive SNES games? I'm trying to think if another snes game used a wider color pallete - I want to say FF6 did for sure.

I'm sure if CT looked like ass it would not have been as enjoyable. But the fact that, for its medium, it was beautiful and a marvel has helped the game, which is enjoyable in its own right, age extremely well

 

[Monster_Munch]

Not everyone loves those JRPGs like Chrono Trigger. I would take Morrowind or KOTOR over anything from Japan.

 

[Macamus Prime]

I just realized that there will be only ONE controller with the screen. Everyone else will use the Wiimote.

Not sure how much more fun it will be mutliplayer wise for 1 person to have the screen controller and 3 others the Wiimote.

Internel play with 4 pax, each with a screen controller, would be pretty nice though.

 

[sao123]

I think nostalgia is making you two think games back then were better than they were imo. So much junk back then and the games were pretty basic, I would say there are way more quality games than there was back then.

or maybe they just were better then...
Back then was an era where new genre of games were being discovered...
There was truly innovation, now we have the same old game with a fresh coat of paint and an extra feature or 2.

Its unfortunate, but I'd say that the current place of game innovation is on facebook, and we are seeing a return to simpler more funner games.
The Wii seemed to embrace this... but

MS/Sony are continuing in their set ways.

 

[smackababy]

or maybe they just were better then...
Back then was an era where new genre of games were being discovered...
There was truly innovation, now we have the same old game with a fresh coat of paint and an extra feature or 2.

Its unfortunate, but I'd say that the current place of game innovation is on facebook, and we are seeing a return to simpler more funner games.
The Wii seemed to embrace this... but

MS/Sony are continuing in their set ways.

Not quite. Both MS and Sony are embracing the casual gamer because they are far greater in number than the "hardcore". The Kinect is not targeted at people who are hardcore gamers and it is selling quite well I believe. Sadly, I fear both companies will abandon their ways and cater only to the casual.

 

[Monster_Munch]

This is the list of biggest selling games from 2010

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/83386/top-selling-games-of-2010-multi-wii-ps3-psp-ds-x360/

There's still a lot of big selling hardcore titles. Amazing to see Mario Kart DS still on that list since it was released in 2005.

 

[Beev]

The Kinect is not targeted at people who are hardcore gamers and it is selling quite well I believe.

I don't think so. Pretty much every Gamestop has double digit amounts of traded in Kinects that they can't sell.

 

[gorcorps]

or maybe they just were better then...
Back then was an era where new genre of games were being discovered...
There was truly innovation, now we have the same old game with a fresh coat of paint and an extra feature or 2.

Its unfortunate, but I'd say that the current place of game innovation is on facebook, and we are seeing a return to simpler more funner games.
The Wii seemed to embrace this... but

MS/Sony are continuing in their set ways.

Whatever you say. There were many mario type platformers after mario got popular. People don't remember them because (obviously) they weren't that memorable. Same with turn-based RPGs. People remember the good ones and forget the bad ones, plus the bad ones didn't always make it state side. There's more gaming going on now than before, so you're bound to run into more "copies"... but I still feel like current gaming is more fulfilling to me now than in the past.

 

[gorcorps]

I don't think so. Pretty much every Gamestop has double digit amounts of traded in Kinects that they can't sell.

That just proves that it DID sell well. It's just not re-selling well. I doubt Microsoft gives a shit that used hardware isn't flying off of Gamestop's shelves. They already sold it.

 

[techforums]

And your rebuttal is?

Superfacepalm?

 

[Beev]

That just proves that it DID sell well. It's just not re-selling well. I doubt Microsoft gives a shit that used hardware isn't flying off of Gamestop's shelves. They already sold it.

I guess I didn't think I had to mention that they also have tons of new product sitting on the shelves. I thought that was understood.