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if society didnt think 4 year degrees were necessary...

A

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
... then wouldnt income inequality decrease?

i think so, because that is the only thing anyone can think of that can reasonably explain the increase in wealth inequality since the 70s.

and in the 50s, everyone had the same amount of education.

income inequality would certainly decrease if there was no medical licensure, yet tyrants like obama want it both ways. too much legislation has allowed lawyers to thrive too.
 
What is the purpose of the degrees?

Education and additional skill sets. That is what generates the additional income.
And those things are needed to advance society. they are not a necessity; people can advance without them; but they provide a leg up.

People still got degrees in the 50s; What do you think the GI Bill was for?
You think the space program was developed by people that did not have degrees.
The degree had a value and people were rewarded for such.
 
Lawyers thrive because there isn't a tort system or loser pays.
It allows all the insane suing with no consequence if you bring a frivolous lawsuit.
The increased liability has increased the cost of everything because of all the wasted effort covering your arse
 
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I find that there's one main, significant behaviour between those who find steady employment and those who do not: The ability to delay gratification now for the sake of greater rewards later.

Aside from the undeniable "finishing" aspect of university, I think it serves as a significant indicator of exactly that: You've proven that you can slog through four years of not terribly hard work and come out the other side successfully. If you couldn't pull this off, then the odds are that it's unlikely that you're able to focus yourself during the training portion of a new job (to become an effective employee). As a shorthand rule for who to hire, it's not that bad.
 
The four year degree doesnt hold the clout that it once did - especially with degrees being granted for "..." Studies, Liberal Arts, Sociology, etc. None of those are worth the paper they are written on to any employer - hence offer no real income potential.

Degrees in Engineering, Computer Science, Mathematics, Medicine, Chemistry, etc will always be in demand due to the future income potential that they offer. There is a reason it is a harder to get a BSEE than a PhD in Sociology.
 
EagleKeeper said:
What is the purpose of the degrees?

Education and additional skill sets. That is what generates the additional income.
And those things are needed to advance society. they are not a necessity; people can advance without them; but they provide a leg up.

People still got degrees in the 50s; What do you think the GI Bill was for?
You think the space program was developed by people that did not have degrees.
The degree had a value and people were rewarded for such.
Click to expand...

The problem here is that 4 year degrees were once for people who had a great desire and lust for higher learning. People for whom seeking higher understanding for their major and subsequent chosen career path of choice was a passion of sorts for them.

However now 4 year degrees have become little more then a tool for those seeking a foot in the door for slightly higher/better paying jobs and not necessarily a means to seeking higher levels of learning and understanding. And in some cases a 4 year degree in certain fields now doesn't even lead to a higher paying job.
 
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I have one woo.

Their value is declining though. Right place right time is all that matters. Its not unlike everyone going into manufacturing and apprenticeships in the 1970's. Everyone mostly graduated highschool and started working right away.

The ones who went to college back then legitimately liked school, and their subject of choice. They were going against the beaten path a bit to attend college (all their friends were probably buying houses before they even graduated). In the long run moving with the herd was a no-go. All those in the 1970s manufacturing basically lost their jobs.

Don't see why it'll be any different today, except the herd is going to college. Safety in numbers is not your friend when it comes to the economy. What you actually want are skills no one else has.
 
Too many degrees are pointless. If someone is graduating with a degree in EE or with a BSN, they're going to make plenty of money, but art history? Sorry, you'll be living at home for a while.
 
Had my emissions test done by a guy with an EE so try again. 😛

On the other hand it cuts through alot of the hiring BS. With their resume in front of you its hard to tell what type of person you are hiring. Not everyone went to good public highschools, or private schools, or had well-to-do parents homeschool them, etc. Basically they want someone with middle class work ethics and knowledge and highschool doesn't guarantee that anymore. Do you have the knowledge and work ethic to get a degree yes/no? Thats all it really means.
 
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I grow more and more convinced that the HR culture in our society is the cause of a lot of the waste in companies.

Screening out people for level 2 network support because someone at HR wants them to have a 4-year degree in CS for a notch above an entry level position is hilarious.

I also keep seeing things like wanting a CCNP or JNCIA for a field tech, and then auto-rejecting applications for missing A+.

This is only in my immediate field and during my own job hunt... I'm sure there are things like this all over the employment world.

The HR systems are denying good candidates a chance to even interview for a job based on superfluous criteria. It damages company staffing and the departments are expensive.
 
Acanthus said:
I grow more and more convinced that the HR culture in our society is the cause of a lot of the waste in companies.
Click to expand...

I'm sure I'll offend someone here, but that hasn't stopped me before so I'll say it. HR people are generally not the brightest bulbs on the tree and their "skills" are appalling. I say that not only as an employee for various companies over the course of the last 18 years, but as someone who developed an HR system from the ground up earlier this year. They're unorganized, generally don't even know their own company's benefit information, and focus on meaningless crap that no one needs or cares about. The system I developed last year was cool from a technical perspective but the content was stupid, made the system overcomplicated, and the employees just rolled their eyes.

HR people are the ones who equate a four-year degree in Women's Studies to a four-year degree in Engineering.

JManInPhoenix said:
The four year degree doesnt hold the clout that it once did - especially with degrees being granted for "..." Studies, Liberal Arts, Sociology, etc. None of those are worth the paper they are written on to any employer - hence offer no real income potential.

Degrees in Engineering, Computer Science, Mathematics, Medicine, Chemistry, etc will always be in demand due to the future income potential that they offer. There is a reason it is a harder to get a BSEE than a PhD in Sociology.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup: Love the Mugato avatar, by the way.
 
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Anarchist420 said:
i think so, because that is the only thing anyone can think of that can reasonably explain the increase in wealth inequality since the 70s.
Click to expand...

Oh. My.

The only thing? Really? That's the best and only idea you can come up with?

While the current environment surrounding jobs, degrees, skills, and associated values among them presents some really interesting topics to discuss in terms of how they all work together (including problems caused)...that's the only explanation you could come up with for the stupidly large and growing income inequality in this nation? 😱

Talk about simplistic thinking. Come back when you've done some real research on the topic of income inequality.

Let me get you started with something simple: http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

And that's not even an incredibly deep look at it. Might want to invest in some books on the topic.
 
hans030390 said:
Oh. My.

The only thing? Really? That's the best and only idea you can come up with?

While the current environment surrounding jobs, degrees, skills, and associated values among them presents some really interesting topics to discuss in terms of how they all work together (including problems caused)...that's the only explanation you could come up with for the stupidly large and growing income inequality in this nation? 😱

Talk about simplistic thinking. Come back when you've done some real research on the topic of income inequality.

Let me get you started with something simple: http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

And that's not even an incredibly deep look at it. Might want to invest in some books on the topic.
Click to expand...


Yeah he's wrong about his premise, but on the other hand what he advocates would cut down on the surplus population. If they be like to die then they'd better do it then!
 
hans030390 said:
Oh. My.

The only thing? Really? That's the best and only idea you can come up with?

While the current environment surrounding jobs, degrees, skills, and associated values among them presents some really interesting topics to discuss in terms of how they all work together (including problems caused)...that's the only explanation you could come up with for the stupidly large and growing income inequality in this nation? 😱

Talk about simplistic thinking. Come back when you've done some real research on the topic of income inequality.

Let me get you started with something simple: http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

And that's not even an incredibly deep look at it. Might want to invest in some books on the topic.
Click to expand...

You are responding to a kid that doesn't work and still lives at home...
 
The 4 year degree is not the cause of income inequality. Although it is one of the symptoms of the problem. Just like Jaundice is not the cause of death, but the liver cancer is.

The 4 year degree requirement for Jobs that really do not require one is due to the Surplus population, HR needs some minimum filter to cut down on the number of resumes they have to process.

So just requiring a 4 year degree helps cut the workload by 50%

In a couple of years, a 4 year degree will be required even for burger flippers and walmart greeters.
 
OverVolt said:
Had my emissions test done by a guy with an EE so try again. 😛
Click to expand...

i have a CS degree with minor in EE, and about half the time i would rather have the emissions test job if i could swing it 😀

but then i remember that i like making money
 
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Anarchist420 said:
i think so, because that is the only thing anyone can think of that can reasonably explain the increase in wealth inequality since the 70s.
Click to expand...

That's the ONLY reason anyone can think of for the rise of wealth inequality? CEOs of top earning American companies don't make 1000x what their average employee does because they have a 4 year degree. I haven't looked at an exact study as to why the top end of the wealth distribution has pushed up so much in the last few decades but I would guess it has something to do with companies becoming more global, more consolidated, having a more accessible consumer base, and well, just momentum of the rich having access to getting richer without bounds on how much money you have.

I came from a single parent household and my mother was dirt poor, so her expected upfront contribution for my tuition was basically zero and I maxed out the qualifications for government grants and subsidized loans. Granted, this was over 10 years ago, the prices have probably gone up tremendously since then and it could be a lot harder. Still, in the years since then what I kept hearing from younger people was that they were struggling to pay for college not because they come from a family that doesn't earn enough but because they have parents with decent income who can't or won't contribute (and the government is brutally unforgiving about this, it's impossible to declare independence from parents who can't pay until you're pretty old)

I'm sure there are plenty of professions where you used to stand a good chance getting hired without a degree but now you can't, but that's a natural consequence of an overall growing level of competency.. I mean, 50 years ago you couldn't even get a computer science degree.

That doesn't mean that the valuation of the college experience isn't partially BS though. I think it's less the case that it offers a unique learning experience and more that it's some kind of proof that you can actually get work done in areas vaguely related to what you're being hired for.
 
desy said:
Lawyers thrive because there isn't a tort system or loser pays.
It allows all the insane suing with no consequence if you bring a frivolous lawsuit.
The increased liability has increased the cost of everything because of all the wasted effort covering your arse
Click to expand...

Actually there are consequences but the party being sued needs to counter sue, the settling out of court when one is innocent which may appear the right thing to do in the short run to minimize costs eventually emboldens those who seek quick payday through what may be considered frivolous lawsuits in the long run.

If one brings a suit without foundation for the purposes of harassment or to intimidate someone into doing something they would not do otherwise or solely to harm, and the defendant prevails, gets it dismissed, there is a cause of action called 'abuse of process.' On THAT one can sue and collect damages.
Click to expand...
 
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