If possible: Forced birth control for those on welfare to stop the next generation of poor

[ivwshane]

Stop trying to spin the conversation around. You got mad because I stated that having to show voter ID which is a lawful after you brought it up in post #395.

No, I was asking if you support wasting money chasing non existent fraud. You didn't have the balls to answer the question and spun it.

 

[cytg111]

If you mean do I favor having to show some form of valid ID to prove that you are who you say you are then yes and I do it all the time when I conduct business pertaining to my voter registration. Being proactive about this is not partisan in any way. My state requires proof when you get your drivers license renewed which I think is a good thing too. If you are not legal then you should not be able to get any of these credentials.

Europe calling in : Usually, as per registered citizen you get a letter in your mail with a voting snip, that snip gives you access to the voting booths where you are vetted by credentials again, sort of like at a concert "has this ticket allready been used", and off you are.
I cant fathom how this is not required in any democracy, the alternative opens you up for exploitation by a number of vectors.. Yea we are a democracy yea we are a free people and yea we got enemies that wants to take that away from us.

 

[Puffnstuff]

No, I was asking if you support wasting money chasing non existent fraud. You didn't have the balls to answer the question and spun it.

Why do you keep trolling us on this?

 

[justoh]

Europe calling in : Usually, as per registered citizen you get a letter in your mail with a voting snip, that snip gives you access to the voting booths where you are vetted by credentials again, sort of like at a concert "has this ticket allready been used", and off you are.
I cant fathom how this is not required in any democracy, the alternative opens you up for exploitation by a number of vectors.. Yea we are a democracy yea we are a free people and yea we got enemies that wants to take that away from us.

In CH almost everyone votes by mail. Even if you go to the local office you'll just be dropping off the shit you got per post. There's no voter registration and no "vetting of credentials" at the time of voting since everyone is registered with their local municipality. They know where everyone is at all times and they know your status. As for people voting for others, stealing your mail, or something, if you're too apathetic to vote yourself, I'm not sure what they do to prevent that.

 

[ivwshane]

Why do you keep trolling us on this?

Trolling you on what? The topic of this discussion?

 

[Jhhnn]

Conservatives slut shame poor women? Nothing new about that. Happens all the time.

The notion that poor women need to be coerced into birth control is pretty fucking judgemental bullshit. The last thing they want is more children. That's reflected in the abortion rate. They're fallible human beings like the rest of us. They just don't have as much money. They'll go for it if it's free & readily accessible. It's the price point they can afford.

 

[Puffnstuff]

They'll go for it if it's free & readily accessible.

It's cheaper to provide them with free birth control than to deal with unwanted or unplanned children plus its far more humane. With all of the cases we see these days of unwanted children being abused by their parents we have a social responsibility to try to mitigate it. I don't like abortions and would rather see the pregnancy prevented to begin with but each individual has to make their own choices.

 

[BoomerD]

Conservatives slut shame poor women? Nothing new about that. Happens all the time.

The notion that poor women need to be coerced into birth control is pretty fucking judgemental bullshit. The last thing they want is more children. That's reflected in the abortion rate. They're fallible human beings like the rest of us. They just don't have as much money. They'll go for it if it's free & readily accessible. It's the price point they can afford.

Can't be having that...GOD wants the poor people to have more babies...what happens after birth isn't our problem...until it is.


Right, Republicans?

 

[momeNt]

Conservatives slut shame poor women? Nothing new about that. Happens all the time.

The notion that poor women need to be coerced into birth control is pretty fucking judgemental bullshit. The last thing they want is more children. That's reflected in the abortion rate. They're fallible human beings like the rest of us. They just don't have as much money. They'll go for it if it's free & readily accessible. It's the price point they can afford.

I don't even think the OP is conservative. You are just firing randomly off your buzz word cheat sheet.

Some really alarming generalizations in your post and I truly question how you are able to be sympathetic to a woman's on welfares struggles considering you aren't one. Some may absolutely want children, why would poverty preclude them from life's greatest gift? Also arguing that them getting pregnant is a result of being fallible despite very high effectiveness leaves some concerning implications. Are they not smart enough to use BC so the effectiveness is lower? Like really, what are you saying?

 

[feralkid]

You assume that when you say someone with your basic attitude definitely would, you would be wrong.

allow you own grandchildren to starve in order to maintain you ideological purity?

Perhaps worded wrong, I provide my kids with a home of their own and cars to drive and insurance. They are responsible for the day to day provisions. If they opt to have a child before they are ready to take over those payments, then they have made a decision that they are capable of providing for themselves and no longer need my support. Not sure why that line of thinking is so negative. Should I not pay for a home and car and prefer they father children instead that I can provide for?

You guys have funny values, fighting for the rights of others to do whatever they like regardless of their ability to afford it. So can I get you guys to fight as hard for my 3 new Teslas I want but really can't afford?

You are telling us that you will punish your grand children for the sins of your children and you don't understand why that is totally fucked up?

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't even think the OP is conservative. You are just firing randomly off your buzz word cheat sheet.

Some really alarming generalizations in your post and I truly question how you are able to be sympathetic to a woman's on welfares struggles considering you aren't one. Some may absolutely want children, why would poverty preclude them from life's greatest gift? Also arguing that them getting pregnant is a result of being fallible despite very high effectiveness leaves some concerning implications. Are they not smart enough to use BC so the effectiveness is lower? Like really, what are you saying?

Please. I'm saying they can use all the non-judgemental slack we can give them.

I've known lots of low income moms over the years. Even at union wages, cleaning trains or buses isn't much money for a woman with two young kids & a deadbeat Dad. They fight to keep old clunkers running, clip coupons like crazy & benefit from all the EITC they can get. They have a helluva time finding day care they can afford. Their kids wouldn't go to the doctor if they didn't have company sponsored healthcare insurance. I shared a lunch room with them for decades.

They don't want more kids, not under the circumstances & I doubt poorer women are any different. I also rode the bus with a variety of them off & on as they trundled their kids to a state run child care center so they could work a low wage job or go to school.

God bless 'em. None of it is easy.

 

[SNC]

You are telling us that you will punish your grand children for the sins of your children and you don't understand why that is totally fucked up?

Yes I would punish them by making them use their earnings and savings that they accumulated by not having a mortgage or car payment, because I limited my expenditures so that I could provide a better life for mine. I don't understand what the issue is. Unless you yourself are providing housing and vehicles to your adult children and plan to for the rest of their lives I can't see how you can judge me. And what the fuck is this sin talk, I'm an atheist. I taught my kids not to have children without the ability to provide for them, and somehow you fucking people think I'm a fucking idiot for doing so. It really does explain a lot that you would rather I be ok with my kids living paycheck to paycheck wondering where the next meal was coming from, then to have learned that with the massive decision to bring a life into this world comes massive responsibility. With the cost of raising a child to 18 of over one quarter of a million dollars, exactly what fucking chance does a welfare mom have of raising theses unwanted kids to be productive members of society? 10, 25, 50% How much does that percentage go down with each additional kid? I remember spending at least an hour a night with each of mine with homework, I'm not sure how someone does it with more than 3. How many welfare moms are spending an hour with each of their kids doing HW every night? You guys talk about how you want the kids protected and to have options, what fucking chance in hell do some of these kids have, none! I would wager that not a fucking one of you have spent any real time at home with a welfare family with the mom smoking pot and tending to her new man while the kids starve and live in filth. You should be made to live in the projects for a month before making comments. You just might be surprised.

 

[feralkid]

Yes I would punish them by making them use their earnings and savings that they accumulated by not having a mortgage or car payment, because I limited my expenditures so that I could provide a better life for mine. I don't understand what the issue is. Unless you yourself are providing housing and vehicles to your adult children and plan to for the rest of their lives I can't see how you can judge me. And what the fuck is this sin talk, I'm an atheist. I taught my kids not to have children without the ability to provide for them, and somehow you fucking people think I'm a fucking idiot for doing so. It really does explain a lot that you would rather I be ok with my kids living paycheck to paycheck wondering where the next meal was coming from, then to have learned that with the massive decision to bring a life into this world comes massive responsibility. With the cost of raising a child to 18 of over one quarter of a million dollars, exactly what fucking chance does a welfare mom have of raising theses unwanted kids to be productive members of society? 10, 25, 50% How much does that percentage go down with each additional kid? I remember spending at least an hour a night with each of mine with homework, I'm not sure how someone does it with more than 3. How many welfare moms are spending an hour with each of their kids doing HW every night? You guys talk about how you want the kids protected and to have options, what fucking chance in hell do some of these kids have, none! I would wager that not a fucking one of you have spent any real time at home with a welfare family with the mom smoking pot and tending to her new man while the kids starve and live in filth. You should be made to live in the projects for a month before making comments. You just might be surprised.

No, I said you would punish your grandchildren for the sins of your children.

 

[Jhhnn]

I would wager that not a fucking one of you have spent any real time at home with a welfare family with the mom smoking pot and tending to her new man while the kids starve and live in filth.

So, were you the new man at some point or is that just slanderous stereotyping?

 

[SNC]

No, I said you would punish your grandchildren due to the sins of your children.

Please re-read what I typed and explain how you came to that conclusion, and how you would do it differently.

 

[feralkid]

Please re-read what I typed and explain how you came to that conclusion, and how you would do it differently.

I would not deny care to my innocent grand children, despite what my children have done.

 

[SNC]

So, were you the new man at some point or is that just slanderous stereotyping?

I squatted where I could from the time I was 13 until I was 19ish. I lived on the streets in the warmer months but had to bum couches from time to time and when none were available I sleep under the stairs in the projects. I'm sure you will be able to provide me with your actual involvement with the people at topic now...

 

[SNC]

I would not deny care to my innocent grand children, despite what my children have done.

Not an answer but I really didn't expect one. Are you covering the mortgages and cars for your adult children? Were you ready willing and abel to pay for their college if asked/needed or are you just going to toss them some lunch meat and cheese from time to time so they dont starve?

 

[feralkid]

Not an answer but I really didn't expect one. Are you covering the mortgages and cars for your adult children? Were you ready willing and abel to pay for their college if asked/needed or are you just going to toss them some lunch meat and cheese from time to time so they dont starve?

Yes I am, though that is not the point.

You claim you would deny care to your own grand children in order to punish your children.

 

[Jhhnn]

I squatted where I could from the time I was 13 until I was 19ish. I lived on the streets in the warmer months but had to bum couches from time to time and when none were available I sleep under the stairs in the projects. I'm sure you will be able to provide me with your actual involvement with the people at topic now...

I'm sure there's some of what you describe but that doesn't mean it's anything like universal.

Lucky for you that there were projects where you could sleep under the stairs, huh?

 

[SNC]

Yes I am, though that is not the point.

You claim you would deny care to your own grand children in order to punish your children.

Well good for you! I am however still unclear as to how I would be punishing my grandkids by telling my kids that if they opt to bring a life into this world the money they make will need to go to the support of said child and not to hobbies, trips, fancy clothes, fine dining everynight, hot rods and ect... I'm really lost. I have a plan forward, if they choose not to follow that plan they are saying they have a better way. At that point they can put on there big boy pants and provide for their own. I'm not sure what the issues is.

 

[SNC]

I'm sure there's some of what you describe but that doesn't mean it's anything like universal.

Lucky for you that there were projects where you could sleep under the stairs, huh?

WOW. Yep the shit, piss, cum, garbage covered place where people went to smoke crack and piss or shit because it was easier than walking up 3 flights of stairs was a fucking godsend for a 13 years old kid. I only know what I know, you only know what others have told you. You can make the claim that its not universal but until you actually go out and see for yourself... Is it different all these years later, might be, but I still see the same thing when I pass by the old projects, kids having kids and those kids smoking, drinking and filthy. You see what you want, especially when you only look from a distance.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Well good for you! I am however still unclear as to how I would be punishing my grandkids by telling my kids that if they opt to bring a life into this world the money they make will need to go to the support of said child and not to hobbies, trips, fancy clothes, fine dining everynight, hot rods and ect... I'm really lost. I have a plan forward, if they choose not to follow that plan they are saying they have a better way. At that point they can put on there big boy pants and provide for their own. I'm not sure what the issues is.

You seem to be under the impression that saying 'don't bring a child into this world you can't afford' is a form of birth control. Let me tell you straight up, it is not. I have a step child that I helped raise since she was 12 (she is 22 now). We taught her to be responsible, we taught her about birth control and STIs (her mother is a nurse, she has flipcharts!), we even paid for her to get the 5 year implant one when we first suspected she was sexually active. Then on her 18th birthday she had it taken out (without telling us) because 'she didn't like it' (which turned out was because her boyfriend was catholic and thought it was a sin). About 6 months later she was pregnant, decided that despite her mom's advice that she couldn't live with herself if she had an abortion (because she wanted to stay with the catholic father), and then about 3 months after the baby was born the father left her. So, now she has a GED, no job experience, and can't find a job that would actually pay enough to cover childcare. What do you do in this situation? Toss her out on the street with a newborn child?

This is what we are saying about punishing the grandchildren. If we told her to get out and support herself we are also telling our grandchild to suffer hunger and poverty.

 

[Younigue]

I squatted where I could from the time I was 13 until I was 19ish. I lived on the streets in the warmer months but had to bum couches from time to time and when none were available I sleep under the stairs in the projects. I'm sure you will be able to provide me with your actual involvement with the people at topic now...

Thank goodness there were people kind enough to let you use their couches. Imagine a world where everyone chose to just let their fellow humans flounder because judgement comes before kindness.

 

[Younigue]

Well good for you! I am however still unclear as to how I would be punishing my grandkids by telling my kids that if they opt to bring a life into this world the money they make will need to go to the support of said child and not to hobbies, trips, fancy clothes, fine dining everynight, hot rods and ect... I'm really lost. I have a plan forward, if they choose not to follow that plan they are saying they have a better way. At that point they can put on there big boy pants and provide for their own. I'm not sure what the issues is.

Provide for their own OR provide for their own.