If Plasma is superior to LCD, and cheaper, why is it not selling well?

[Makaveli]

isn't an LCD superior in gaming...?

Depends.

when it comes to fast motion plasma is faster than LCD/LED.

One thing i've heard in the favor lcd is the panels tend to be brighter and some people prefer that for their games.

 

[BigDH01]

There is quite a bit of elitism in this thread...

Firstly, I don't think people are choosing LCDs over plasma because of marketing, I think people are choosing LCDs over plasma because LCDs look a lot better in the environment where people make the decision as to what TV to buy. Most people are making their buying decisions on the sales floor and the LCD is going to win there. If you weren't an AV enthusiast and had to base your decision on the screens you see at the store instead of hours spent online looking at AVS Forum, which would you choose?

Secondly, I think most modern LCD panels are simply good enough for most people. Most people probably aren't watching movies in a darkened room designed for that purpose. The trend in housing is an open floor plan with lots of natural light. In those conditions, the slight advantage in blacks that plasmas contain are largely worthless. With enough environmental light, blacks on modern LCDs will look black. I personally prefer to spend most of my time in a living area with an excess amount of natural light and the blacks on my LCD in these conditions look just as black as my TV's black bezel. Further, in this space, a matte screen is preferable which favors getting an LCD.

Thirdly, most people don't actually want a screen that most accurately represents colors, they want a screen that best fits their own personal preference. Most people, including myself, couldn't tell you how the producer wanted us to see their designed color on every individual piece of content we own. One, I have no idea what the director, developer, UX designer originally intended. I work in technology myself but I hardly ever view the source code for something as easy as webpages to find out what the UI designer intended for RGB values. And second, even if I had that data it wouldn't really matter as I have no idea how those RGB values *should* actually look. Like most people, I don't find it necessary to drop several hundred dollars to have a display professionally calibrated, and even then, the actual color as I see it will be affected by the lighting conditions in the room. And this all assumes that the source material was also professionally calibrated. And lastly, it is possible that people prefer their own stylistic tendencies to the director's even if they could be assured that the director's vision could be accurately represented. And since the consumer is the one making the buying decision, it's their preference that matters.

I recently upgraded my Galaxy Nexus to a Nexus 5. While the 5 has much greater pixel density, I prefer the OLED screen of the galaxy. Yes, I'm aware that reviewers have determined that the OLED screen doesn't produce accurate colors and it's oversaturated. But, I still prefer it. Yes, I'm aware that places me in the ignorant throng of consumers that prefer "pop" to purity, but it is what it is. Next to the OLED the 5 feels washed out to me. I'll get used to it and I love the 5 for many other reasons, but if I were to ever put those screens next to each other again (like on a showroom floor) I would choose the OLED.

Off topic, late in the life of the Nexus I noticed some retention issues in the notification panel. I'm excited to have OLEDs as TVs but I hope this isn't going to be an issue.

 

[cmdrdredd]

There's also buyers who pay attention to the Energy Star label that says $13/year to run vs $30. I know people who are that conscious of their energy usage. Personally it doesn't bother me one way or the other.

 

[ibex333]

Personally, my experience with plasma has been negative. I got a 51" Samsung Plasma recently in Best Buy, after reading excellent reviews. Everyone know plasma is best for darker rooms, and that's exactly how mine is. Also I don't pay for electricity, so I don't give a damn.

Now here are the negatives:

1)This thing is friggin' HEAVY!!!! Especially compared to LED LCD TVs I own.
2)I don't know what all these people are talking about when they tout plasma's excellent blacks, and colors in general as opposed to LCD. Sure picture wasn't bad at all. And colors are good, but are they better than what I am used to? I don't think so. At least I don't see it.
3)By far my biggest gripe. This thing is dim!!! Oh my god, it is sooo annoying. I constantly feel like I need to up the brightness, but it's already at max! My room is dark as hell, and this TV just isn't bright/vivid enough. Tried different color presets, it hardly helps. Also, the TV image feels slightly fuzzy. Some people who came over didn't notice, but there is a certain level of fuzziness and it drives me nuts. Never had this issue with LCD.
4)Gaming input lag. Not for Xbox 360 or PS3 even though it has a game mode.
5)HUGE BEZEL.
6)For $650+tax I expect a TV to have at least 4 HDMI ports - no exceptions, no excuses! This thing only has 2. Also, at this price, I think it's fair to expect 3D or Smart TV built in. Not both off course, and I said "expect" not have.


I just couldn't take it so I paid $150 more for a Vizio M501d-A2R and that thing is amazing. Plus it has 3D and smart TV functionality all in one. And it has 4 HDMI ports and 2 USB vs. 2 HDMI and 1 USB on the plasma.


Funny how some people say "myths about power consumption, heat, lack of brightness, image burn-in and weight"..... Those "myths" are actually VERY TRUE!

 

[Wingznut]

Personally, my experience with plasma has been negative. I got a 51" Samsung Plasma recently in Best Buy, after reading excellent reviews.

Which model did you get?

I'm going to guess you got the PN51F5300AFXZA (Samsung 51" 1080p Plasma). Comparing the two:
They are the same weight, each 39.2 lbs (without stand)
The Samsung is ~1.5" wider and taller. Considering the screen is bigger, the bezels can't be "HUGE", in comparison.

The rest of your issues are more about the particular model (and brand) you chose, and not because it's a plasma.

 

[Makaveli]

Which model did you get?

I'm going to guess you got the PN51F5300AFXZA (Samsung 51" 1080p Plasma). Comparing the two:
They are the same weight, each 39.2 lbs (without stand)
The Samsung is ~1.5" wider and taller. Considering the screen is bigger, the bezels can't be "HUGE", in comparison.

The rest of your issues are more about the particular model (and brand) you chose, and not because it's a plasma.

Was just going to post this.

We need to know which model you bought?

actually looking at the price he picked up a lower end plasma model so not really surprised....

 

[Jeeebus]

It will be a sad day in the Jeeebus household when the 60" pioneer plasma dies of old age. A sad day indeed.

Was in a neighbor's house this weekend and he had a big (I'm guessing) 120hz LCD. That stupid Jimmy Fallon red Sox movie was on and I was so confused because it looked like a TV show/soap opera. Couldn't believe that the tech could change the 'look' of a movie so significantly. It was awful. Awful I say.

 

[cmdrdredd]

It will be a sad day in the Jeeebus household when the 60" pioneer plasma dies of old age. A sad day indeed.

Was in a neighbor's house this weekend and he had a big (I'm guessing) 120hz LCD. That stupid Jimmy Fallon red Sox movie was on and I was so confused because it looked like a TV show/soap opera. Couldn't believe that the tech could change the 'look' of a movie so significantly. It was awful. Awful I say.

That was motion interpolation which is usually on by default in some video modes. I turn that off myself.

 

[Anubis]

yea some of that motion stuff is really bad
my parents have a 120 HZ vizio thats a cpl year old and i turned off all that junk, it actually looks pretty decent. its full array local dimming

 

[cmdrdredd]

Some people get used to it and think that is how it is supposed to be. My sister has a 70" Sharp and even with all the motion enhancement options off there is a slight bit of the soap opera effect where people move unnaturally in some scenes. I tried everything to get rid of it but cannot. Nobody else seems to see it so I gave up.

 

[hawtdawg]

Personally, my experience with plasma has been negative. I got a 51" Samsung Plasma recently in Best Buy, after reading excellent reviews. Everyone know plasma is best for darker rooms, and that's exactly how mine is. Also I don't pay for electricity, so I don't give a damn.

Now here are the negatives:

1)This thing is friggin' HEAVY!!!! Especially compared to LED LCD TVs I own.
2)I don't know what all these people are talking about when they tout plasma's excellent blacks, and colors in general as opposed to LCD. Sure picture wasn't bad at all. And colors are good, but are they better than what I am used to? I don't think so. At least I don't see it.
3)By far my biggest gripe. This thing is dim!!! Oh my god, it is sooo annoying. I constantly feel like I need to up the brightness, but it's already at max! My room is dark as hell, and this TV just isn't bright/vivid enough. Tried different color presets, it hardly helps. Also, the TV image feels slightly fuzzy. Some people who came over didn't notice, but there is a certain level of fuzziness and it drives me nuts. Never had this issue with LCD.
4)Gaming input lag. Not for Xbox 360 or PS3 even though it has a game mode.
5)HUGE BEZEL.
6)For $650+tax I expect a TV to have at least 4 HDMI ports - no exceptions, no excuses! This thing only has 2. Also, at this price, I think it's fair to expect 3D or Smart TV built in. Not both off course, and I said "expect" not have.


I just couldn't take it so I paid $150 more for a Vizio M501d-A2R and that thing is amazing. Plus it has 3D and smart TV functionality all in one. And it has 4 HDMI ports and 2 USB vs. 2 HDMI and 1 USB on the plasma.


Funny how some people say "myths about power consumption, heat, lack of brightness, image burn-in and weight"..... Those "myths" are actually VERY TRUE!

sounds like your problem is that you don't understand the picture controls on a plasma.

Brightness controls the blacks. Contrast controls the whites. Since you're turning up the brightness, your washing out the blacks, and causing the picture to dither (look fuzzy/grainy) and look washed out, while doing little to make the picture put out more light. Setting brightness on a plasma is about setting it as high as you can, while keeping solid black as dark as it can get.

Plasmas dont tend to clip whites, so if you want more "brightness" (light output) then turn up the contrast.

Also, what planet do you come from where 650 dollars gets you 3D and 4 HDMI inputs? Get your TV settings right and it will shit all over that vizio.

 

[Makaveli]

sounds like your problem is that you don't understand the picture controls on a plasma.

Brightness controls the blacks. Contrast controls the whites. Since you're turning up the brightness, your washing out the blacks, and causing the picture to dither (look fuzzy/grainy) and look washed out, while doing little to make the picture put out more light. Setting brightness on a plasma is about setting it as high as you can, while keeping solid black as dark as it can get.

Plasmas dont tend to clip whites, so if you want more "brightness" (light output) then turn up the contrast.

Also, what planet do you come from where 650 dollars gets you 3D and 4 HDMI inputs? Get your TV settings right and it will shit all over that vizio.

He bought a lower end tv and was expecting gold for $650 totally agree with your post.

 

[Venomous]

I won two top of the line samsung tv's from nov 2011. Ones a 64" plasma Nd the other is a 55" led.

Plans as pictures wins hands down. Both are extremely thin but the plasma is at least 70 pounds. The plasma does dish out plenty of heat and drinks power like a stranded man In Death Valley during the summer.

The led has an amazing picture on Blu-ray Discs and gaming. Where the LCD does suck is sd feeds and some hd feeds . For everyday tv, the pasma wins, ESP for sports.

I own both and love both for certain things. I'll continue to buy plasmas for as long as they are made. Until something can better plasma , they aren't going away . If anything led lcd's will be replaced before plasma.

 

[Midwayman]

He bought a lower end tv and was expecting gold for $650 totally agree with your post.

Even a low end plasma should look better than a mid to upper range LCD when properly set. Certainly better than LCD's twice its price.

 

[destrekor]

Even a low end plasma should look better than a mid to upper range LCD when properly set. Certainly better than LCD's twice its price.

That's the only time I might have to agree.

How low end are we talking here? I'd wager than many $1200 and above LCD TVs (including LED backlit) offer a better overall picture than some budget sub-$500 plasma. Those plasma panels are often a level of tech found in almost-budget plasma panels from a few years ago - which, aside from potential black level (some modern quality LCDs are definitely better than not-so-great plasmas), the overall color accuracy, fidelity, etc... will look better on the pricier LCD.

Now, I'm not saying that holds true for all budget plasma. That just holds true for all budget plasma that isn't produced by Panasonic. I'd never recommend budget LG or Samsung PDPs - I'd hardly recommend any of their PDPs, though the better Samsung panels are pretty damn good.
If you step up the financing to, say $600-700ish for the Panasonic S60 series, then I'd say your argument is spot on! You won't be seeing an LCD produce an overall better picture, not until you spend thousands more, if at all. Of course, your actual viewing environment dictates much here.

 

[KentState]

It's sad to see the end of plasmas without a comparable replacement readily available on the market. I've had nothing but positive experiences with my Pana and even the common criticisms don't seem to stack up. Yes, when the sun is coming through the huge window in our house, parts of the screen get washed out, but so does the screen on my laptop. We've lifted the thing up three times so not really sure how 75lbs vs 30lbs makes any difference. The brightness was so high with most settings defaults that I turned it way down.