If only the cops had hugged her

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: tomywishbone
In my vast experience (and it's F-ing vast), when the police get involved, people die. The end.

Was she drunk? Sure probably. Was she cussing & screaming? Sure probably. Did she die as a direct result of being arrested by the police? Absolutely.

Flame away...

I don't think this is a matter of flaming, I think it's simply a matter of evidence. Until it can be at least partially supported that "she died as a direct result" of her police incarceration, then it shouldn't be brought up for discussion. As best as we can see, without inside insight into the case, it seems that she was the cause of her own death. If other evidence surfaces, then of course we'll take it in to consideration.

Again, this is no flame, but you mention that you have a vast history with police. That doesn't really scream impartiality to me - what is your experience? Do you hang out with drug dealers or spend a lot of time breaking the law? Perhaps you were a member of the force? I have no idea, but you've gotta give us more insight. It makes a heck of a difference.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: alchemize
I understand grief, asking why. But why make those statements, then release the eulogy to CNN? I question the motives...but maybe CNN is trying to manufacture a story, hard to say without the full text of the eulogy.

Are you so daft you think CNN is manufacturing a story? you truly don't see a story here?

Alcoholic woman on her way to treatment misses her plane by one fricking minute and ends up dead as a result???

I don't understand at all why it would be a "security breach" to let her on the next plane when a man offered her his seat???

Eh, I see it as factually different than you apparently. A drunk woman misses her plane by one fricking minute, starts to go apeshit, gets arrested, continues to go apeshit and figures out a way to strangle herself in a holding cell. Darwin strikes again.

Manufacturing is probably a wrong word - sensationalizing is more appropriate.

As to the security breach rule, that doesn't make sense either. But the world is full of strange laws. Most people don't go apeshit every time we are inconvenienced.

We don't know that she was drunk, now do we. Just because she was alcoholic doesn't mean she was drunk?? She might have been, but she might not have been, at this point we don't know so why assume she was?

She was apprantely calm until they refused to let her on the second flight. That's the question I have, why was it a security breach to let her on that flight?

Anyone who is "out of control", either belligerent or just actually being violent will not be allowed to board a flight. If you reek of the sauce and are acting normal, you still may not be permitted to board.

If you ever catch that show Airline on A&E that documents Southwest Airlines you would see this stuff happens all the time. Since 9/11 there's a no BS policy.

If you can't calm down even when the police are all over you, you certainly don't need to be on a plane at 30,000ft where you might be tempted to open the emergency hatch or something else crazy.

This woman was put in the drunk tank to calm down, she obviously didn't and killed herself.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: teclis1023

Originally posted by: tomywishbone
In my vast experience (and it's F-ing vast), when the police get involved, people die. The end.

Was she drunk? Sure probably. Was she cussing & screaming? Sure probably. Did she die as a direct result of being arrested by the police? Absolutely.

Flame away...

I don't think this is a matter of flaming, I think it's simply a matter of evidence. Until it can be at least partially supported that "she died as a direct result" of her police incarceration, then it shouldn't be brought up for discussion. As best as we can see, without inside insight into the case, it seems that she was the cause of her own death. If other evidence surfaces, then of course we'll take it in to consideration.

Again, this is no flame, but you mention that you have a vast history with police. That doesn't really scream impartiality to me - what is your experience? Do you hang out with drug dealers or spend a lot of time breaking the law? Perhaps you were a member of the force? I have no idea, but you've gotta give us more insight. It makes a heck of a difference.

Yet you don't protest others calling her drunk without proof? Allrighty then....

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: alchemize
I understand grief, asking why. But why make those statements, then release the eulogy to CNN? I question the motives...but maybe CNN is trying to manufacture a story, hard to say without the full text of the eulogy.

Are you so daft you think CNN is manufacturing a story? you truly don't see a story here?

Alcoholic woman on her way to treatment misses her plane by one fricking minute and ends up dead as a result???

I don't understand at all why it would be a "security breach" to let her on the next plane when a man offered her his seat???

Eh, I see it as factually different than you apparently. A drunk woman misses her plane by one fricking minute, starts to go apeshit, gets arrested, continues to go apeshit and figures out a way to strangle herself in a holding cell. Darwin strikes again.

Manufacturing is probably a wrong word - sensationalizing is more appropriate.

As to the security breach rule, that doesn't make sense either. But the world is full of strange laws. Most people don't go apeshit every time we are inconvenienced.

We don't know that she was drunk, now do we. Just because she was alcoholic doesn't mean she was drunk?? She might have been, but she might not have been, at this point we don't know so why assume she was?

She was apprantely calm until they refused to let her on the second flight. That's the question I have, why was it a security breach to let her on that flight?

I read an article that "according to a source" she went to a sports bar, ate and drank. Details will come out from the autopsy later this week. I have no idea why it was a security breach, perhaps you should contact homeland security and inquire.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: alchemize
I understand grief, asking why. But why make those statements, then release the eulogy to CNN? I question the motives...but maybe CNN is trying to manufacture a story, hard to say without the full text of the eulogy.

Are you so daft you think CNN is manufacturing a story? you truly don't see a story here?

Alcoholic woman on her way to treatment misses her plane by one fricking minute and ends up dead as a result???

I don't understand at all why it would be a "security breach" to let her on the next plane when a man offered her his seat???

Eh, I see it as factually different than you apparently. A drunk woman misses her plane by one fricking minute, starts to go apeshit, gets arrested, continues to go apeshit and figures out a way to strangle herself in a holding cell. Darwin strikes again.

Manufacturing is probably a wrong word - sensationalizing is more appropriate.

As to the security breach rule, that doesn't make sense either. But the world is full of strange laws. Most people don't go apeshit every time we are inconvenienced.

We don't know that she was drunk, now do we. Just because she was alcoholic doesn't mean she was drunk?? She might have been, but she might not have been, at this point we don't know so why assume she was?

She was apprantely calm until they refused to let her on the second flight. That's the question I have, why was it a security breach to let her on that flight?

I read an article that "according to a source" she went to a sports bar, ate and drank. Details will come out from the autopsy later this week. I have no idea why it was a security breach, perhaps you should contact homeland security and inquire.

Link to the article because what I read said she was in the bar for 40 some minutes, ate, and PROBABLY drank.

Maybe you should contact the bar.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Did they ever figure out how she was able to strangle herself with the cuffs or have they changed that story?

Apparently they cuffed her to a desk and she somehow got tangled up trying to slither out of her bonds.

Oh, they have desks in detention cells now?

Is the story changing now?

When will they admit handcuffing her in a restrained position out of spite?

Or dead already, a miss-applied choke hold to quite the screaming bitch down?

You'll never see an admission.

The only thing you'll see is like on here with people happy she won't be voting for Clinton.

 

[ayabe]

Until proven otherwise these cops didn't do anything wrong.

I don't get the kill the pig mentality around here where the cops are always at fault no matter what the circumstances.

This husband is working his angle to get set up for life. While I know very well what it's like to lose someone near and dear, this is just exploitation over nothing.

I'm sure pictures of the scene were taken, an autopsy is forthcoming. The video shows her completely out of her mind. Until something comes out to the contrary, I believe the cops version of the events.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


Link to the article because what I read said she was in the bar for 40 some minutes, ate, and PROBABLY drank.

Maybe you should contact the bar.

Only toxicology reports will prove that. Regardless of if she was drunk or crazy, there was no malice or negligence by cuffing her in a holding cell.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Until proven otherwise these cops didn't do anything wrong.

I don't get the kill the pig mentality around here where the cops are always at fault no matter what the circumstances.

This husband is working his angle to get set up for life. While I know very well what it's like to lose someone near and dear, this is just exploitation over nothing.

I'm sure pictures of the scene were taken, an autopsy is forthcoming. The video shows her completely out of her mind. Until something comes out to the contrary, I believe the cops version of the events.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, but she didn't seem that bad to me in the video??

The only thing the cops are guilty of at this point is not giving a fvck, but they are cops just "doing their job" and it's not an easy job.

The video I watched said the cops were standing just outside the detention room and could hear her screaming? I guess it was too much trouble to open the door and look??

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: teclis1023
I'm gonna agree with Alchemize on this. It's sad, but it's nobody's fault but her own.

Now that's interesting. I hadn't considered the possibility that, seeing the possibilities offered by the handcuffs, she choked herself.

 

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Yet you don't protest others calling her drunk without proof? Allrighty then....

The accounts that I have read from CNN and Google News indicate that there is a good chance of her having been inebriated. Furthermore, she clearly displayed behavior which would indicate it to me.

Here are some clips:

Posted from: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/05/airport.death.atty/
Manning: We know that when she landed in Phoenix she was absolutely committed, determined and absolutely stone cold sober when she landed here about 12:20. She was very calm and very determined to get to Tucson to get well.

By the time she reached the gate and found out she was denied boarding, she had a very, very strong emotional reaction to that, and we believe that that wasn't just a result of her being upset because of her determination to get well. We believe she may have been drinking, but we have no evidence of that at this point yet.

gah - busy at work, cannot complete response

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674


You'll never see an admission.

The only thing you'll see is like on here with people happy she won't be voting for Clinton.

Do you have some bizarre personal goal to irrelevantly troll every thread in P&N?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


Link to the article because what I read said she was in the bar for 40 some minutes, ate, and PROBABLY drank.

Maybe you should contact the bar.

Only toxicology reports will prove that. Regardless of if she was drunk or crazy, there was no malice or negligence by cuffing her in a holding cell.

How drunk can she get in 40 minutes?

Originally posted by: alchemize
I feel for this guy for losing his wife, really I do. But what was he thinking? I hope he framed this in a larger context of "we need compassion" rather than "this wasn't her fault". A hug from the police would have saved her from her demons?

Link

""If the airline or the police authorities had treated Carol with some modicum of sensitivity and grace, or one single person at that airport had put an arm around her shoulder, sat her down and given her some protection, she might still be with us today,"

- Phoenix to Tuscon is about a 2 hour drive. Why didn't he or another family member or friend drive her to rehab? She might still be with us today...(edit- she was on a layover, so driving wasn't an option. She was from NY).
- If he or another family member or friend had cared enough to fly with her to Tuscon, she might still be with us today...
- If she wasn't a drunk psycho, she might still be with us today...

There's been no evidence that she was mentally ill or anything, just an out of control drunk. Drunks kill themselves all the time, on train tracks, in cars, etc. This time one did by strangling herself with handcuffs. Sorry for your loss man, but it's not the police/airports fault in any way, shape or form.

It's quite obvious to me your limited capacity to feel empathy for others. The insurance industry needs more physcopaths like you working for it.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

It's quite obvious to me your limited capacity to feel empathy for others. The insurance industry needs more physcopaths like you working for it.

I agree. My empathy is targeted.

I do feel for a man who loses his wife.

However, if a wise and beautiful woman like you dies, I'm all for it.

I'm sure your goal was to get this response, and I'm sure I'll get a vacation. And I'm sure you're a wise and beautiful woman.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ayabe
Until proven otherwise these cops didn't do anything wrong.

I don't get the kill the pig mentality around here where the cops are always at fault no matter what the circumstances.

This husband is working his angle to get set up for life. While I know very well what it's like to lose someone near and dear, this is just exploitation over nothing.

I'm sure pictures of the scene were taken, an autopsy is forthcoming. The video shows her completely out of her mind. Until something comes out to the contrary, I believe the cops version of the events.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, but she didn't seem that bad to me in the video??

The only thing the cops are guilty of at this point is not giving a fvck, but they are cops just "doing their job" and it's not an easy job.

The video I watched said the cops were standing just outside the detention room and could hear her screaming? I guess it was too much trouble to open the door and look??

Maybe we've seen different videos, the one I saw last week had her about 20 feet away from a ticket counter or something like that, and then she starts flailing her arms around and screaming even though noone is anywhere near her. The cops come and try to calm her down and it just escalates with her becoming increasingly erratic.

She's basically just screaming how she's not a terrorist.

I didn't see anything after that. But drunk or not, if you or I pulled that stunt we probably would be tasered and put in a holding cell until we calmed down or were charged with something.

They just flat out don't tolerate any kind of craziness at airports anymore.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

It's quite obvious to me your limited capacity to feel empathy for others. The insurance industry needs more physcopaths like you working for it.

I agree. My empathy is targeted.

I do feel for a man who loses his wife.

However, if a wise and beautiful woman like you dies, I'm all for it.

I'm sure your goal was to get this response, and I'm sure I'll get a vacation. And I'm sure you're a wise and beautiful woman.

There is something very wrong with your brain.

This sounds like just another story about cops who are too big of pussies to use something other than force to quell a situation.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

It's quite obvious to me your limited capacity to feel empathy for others. The insurance industry needs more physcopaths like you working for it.

I agree. My empathy is targeted.

I do feel for a man who loses his wife.

However, if a wise and beautiful woman like you dies, I'm all for it.

I'm sure your goal was to get this response, and I'm sure I'll get a vacation. And I'm sure you're a wise and beautiful woman.

There is something very wrong with your brain.

This sounds like just another story about cops who are too big of pussies to use something other than force to quell a situation.

What are they supposed to do, let her go nuts? Talk to her calmly and logically? Have you seen the freakin video of her going apeshit?

All they did was put her in cuffs and put her in a room... and for that they are pussies? What the hell's wrong with YOUR brain? People need to be responsible for their actions... and you need to grow they hell up and get over your own inadequacies before you spout knee-jerk insults at law enforcement.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You'll never see an admission.

The only thing you'll see is like on here with people happy she won't be voting for Clinton.

Do you have some bizarre personal goal to irrelevantly troll every thread in P&N?

Originally posted by: ayabe
Until proven otherwise these cops didn't do anything wrong.

I don't get the kill the pig mentality around here where the cops are always at fault no matter what the circumstances.

This husband is working his angle to get set up for life. While I know very well what it's like to lose someone near and dear, this is just exploitation over nothing.

I'm sure pictures of the scene were taken, an autopsy is forthcoming. The video shows her completely out of her mind. Until something comes out to the contrary, I believe the cops version of the events.

As you can see by the posts in here the police couldn't have possibly done anything wrong.

It is quite normal for people to die unsupervisied handcuffed.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

It's quite obvious to me your limited capacity to feel empathy for others. The insurance industry needs more physcopaths like you working for it.

I agree. My empathy is targeted.

I do feel for a man who loses his wife.

However, if a wise and beautiful woman like you dies, I'm all for it.

I'm sure your goal was to get this response, and I'm sure I'll get a vacation. And I'm sure you're a wise and beautiful woman.

There is something very wrong with your brain.

This sounds like just another story about cops who are too big of pussies to use something other than force to quell a situation.

What are they supposed to do, let her go nuts? Talk to her calmly and logically? Have you seen the freakin video of her going apeshit?

All they did was put her in cuffs and put her in a room... and for that they are pussies? What the hell's wrong with YOUR brain? People need to be responsible for their actions... and you need to grow they hell up and get over your own inadequacies before you spout knee-jerk insults at law enforcement.

Blah blah blah. That's all fine and good (I never said handcuffing someone is violent), but how the fuck did she die?

Talk about knee-jerk, jesus christ.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Blah blah blah. That's all fine and good (I never said handcuffing someone is violent), but how the fuck did she die?

Talk about knee-jerk, jesus christ.

umm, she strangled herself to death while trying to slip her cuffs over her head.

The only thing the police coulda/shoulda done differently was keep a better eye on her until she sobered up.

But in all honesty, they didn't do anything wrong. The lady was just drunk and stupid.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: manowar821
Blah blah blah. That's all fine and good (I never said handcuffing someone is violent), but how the fuck did she die?

Talk about knee-jerk, jesus christ.

umm, she strangled herself to death while trying to slip her cuffs over her head.

The only thing the police coulda/shoulda done differently was keep a better eye on her until she sobered up.

But in all honesty, they didn't do anything wrong. The lady was just drunk and stupid.

And how does one do that?? That's one amazingly improbably feat, if you ask me.

Also, why would you be trying to slip your cuffs over your head, and how does that lead to strangulation? It just doesn't add up.

 

[alchemize]

Drunk/crazy people are capable of some amazingly stupid things. Here's my 2 hypotheticals...

Accident
If you were cuffed behind your back, then recuffed with a second pair of handcuffs or a shackle, sitting on a bench that is probably 3 feet off the floor. Both cuffs/the shackle could be up 12-16" long

You try to get the cuffs under your legs, which you do, but you fall down doing so. You twist sideways and fall to the floor. There's adequate slack in the cuffs/shackle to get them twisted around your neck. If you hit your windpipe hard, it probably stuns you anyhow, and it's lights out.

Suicide
This one is easy. She got the cuffs under her legs to her front, put them to her throat (still shackled to the bench), then dropped to the floor.

I think the more likely scenario is #2

 

[tomywishbone]

Maybe this supports my position:

2,000 die in police custody

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: tomywishbone
Maybe this supports my position:

2,000 die in police custody

Getting arrested puts you in a high risk category because many of the people being arrested are criminals, crazy, violent, drugged up, and stupid. Considering how many times the police hold someone in custody (I'm sure many millions of times a year), 2000 over a three year period doesn't jump out at me. Police have to use force and things are gonna happen. I'll be the first to promote responsible law enforcement and keep an eye out for abuse... but I'll also give these people with a tough job handling a lot of jacked up people the benefit of the doubt.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

It's quite obvious to me your limited capacity to feel empathy for others. The insurance industry needs more physcopaths like you working for it.

I agree. My empathy is targeted.

I do feel for a man who loses his wife.

However, if a wise and beautiful woman like you dies, I'm all for it.

I'm sure your goal was to get this response, and I'm sure I'll get a vacation. And I'm sure you're a wise and beautiful woman.

Ahh, more death wishes from the resident psycho health insurance adjuster. How many people did you kill today?

Why don't you just go off yourself if your so fucking miserable? The whole world would be a better place without assholes like you.