"If Not Me, Then Who?"

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Perknose

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Yesterday I went down to the Ambler Theater to attend a talk by Eric Greitens that was sponsored by the Travis Manion Foundation.

If you care at all, you may have some questions. I will now point you to some answers.

Who is Travis Manion?

Travis Joseph Lemma Manion was born November 19, 1980, in Camp Lejeune, NC, to an active duty Marine family. After settling in Doylestown, PA, Travis went on to LaSalle College High School where his strong leadership qualities set him apart both athletically and academically. He was an all-league standout in wrestling, football and lacrosse, a member of five championship teams, and an All-American wrestler.

[...]

Travis deployed back to Iraq on December 26, 2006, for his second tour as part of a Military Transition Team. He and his fellow Marines worked diligently to change the outcome in Fallujah, building a brotherhood with the Iraqi Army units and setting the example with strong leadership and a passion for their mission. Aggressively taking the fight to the enemy on multiple occasions, Travis and his Marines fought bravely to change the tide in this critical battle ground. As a result of their incredible efforts, Al Anbar Province is now recognized as one of the more significant successes of the surge in Iraq.

During his final patrol mission on Sunday, April 29, 2007, Travis was killed by enemy sniper fire while fighting courageously to defend against an enemy ambush. At his memorial service in Fallujah, an Iraqi Colonel spoke and shared that Travis was his brother, “a brave warrior who never feared the death.” Travis’ mark remains in Iraq and in the hearts of all who honor freedom and service. As a testament to his strong character and leadership, the Iraqis named their operating base Combat Outpost (COB) Manion, one of only a few Iraqi facilities named for an American service member. Travis was awarded the Silver Star and the Bronze Star w/ Valor for his actions in Iraq.

Today at The Basic School in Quantico, Manion Hall serves as a reminder to the next generation of Marine officers of Travis’ Spartan warrior spirit and his leadership on and off the battlefield.
What is the Travis Manion Foundation?

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Not long after Travis was killed by enemy sniper fire in Iraq, checks in his memory began appearing at the Manion’s home. In lieu of flowers, checks from all over the country and the world soon amounted to more than $100,000. Tom and Janet Manion vowed to give every penny to causes that kept alive the spirit of service and love of country exemplified by this generation of Fallen Heroes.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Today, the Foundation operates three major programs that Honor the Fallen by Challenging the Living through a Character Does Matter Leadership program, an Honor the Fallen program that offers Challenge Grants and Fellowship pairings, and the 9/11 Heroes Run each September 11th. They also fund Good Grief seminars, scholarships, and community service projects that benefit wounded and disabled veterans and Families of the Fallen.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]
T[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]he roots of today’s Travis Manion Foundation was a Memorial Fund created by family and friends in the year they lost Travis. That Fund was dedicated to inspiring the next generation of leaders through scholarships at LaSalle College High School and to other young leaders - funding more than $140,000 in scholarships in just the first year.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]The year following Travis’ death, the newly formed Travis Manion Foundation presented $40,000 more in scholarships, $85,000 to Fellowships for wounded and disabled veterans through The Mission Continues, and more than $45,000 for Good Grief seminars to help families of the fallen.[/FONT][/FONT]
Ok, so who is Eric Greitens?

Eric Greitens was born and raised in Missouri, where he was educated in the public schools. He was an Angier B. Duke Scholar at Duke University where he studied ethics, philosophy, and public policy. Selected as a Rhodes and Truman Scholar, he attended the University of Oxford from 1996 through 2000. There he earned a master’s degree in 1998 and a Ph.D. in 2000. His doctoral thesis, Children First, investigated how international humanitarian organizations can best serve war-affected children. He continues to study and teach public service as a Senior Fellow at the Truman School of Public Affairs at the University of Missouri and in the MBA Program at the Olin School of Business at Washington University.

[...]

Eric is also a United States Navy SEAL officer, and he has deployed four times during the Global War on Terrorism: to Iraq, Afghanistan, the Horn of Africa, and Southeast Asia. He has served as the Commander of a Joint Special Operations Task Unit, Commander of a Mark V Special Operations Craft Detachment, and as Commander of an al Qaeda Targeting Cell. Lieutenant Commander Greitens continues to serve in the reserves at U.S. Special Operations Command. His personal military awards include the Navy Achievement Medal, the Joint Service Achievement Medal, the Navy Commendation Medal, the Joint Service Commendation Medal, the Combat Action Ribbon, the Purple Heart, and the Bronze Star.

An accomplished athlete, Eric is a sub-3 hour Marathon runner and the winner of the Shamrock Marathon at Camp Fallujah, Iraq. As a boxer, he won two Oxford Boxing Blues and the Gold Medal at the BUSA National Boxing Championships.
His talk was honest, low-key, non-self-promoting, and deeply stirring to me.

He talked about how his Navy Seal class started with 220 students, but that only 21 lasted through to graduation.

He said those who survived were not necessarily the best athletes at all, but were those who cared most about helping the guy next to them survive, who were able to come out of themselves and care about something larger.

He said he saw this same thing in the refugee camps in Bosnia and Rwanda, where those most likely to prosper were those who had to get up each morning and care for their kids and their grandkids, even after they had lost every earthly possession they'd had, and many family and friends.

It reminded me of reading about American Merchant Mariners who survived the icy waters of the North Atlantic during WWll, and how those most likely to survive weren't the most fit or the strongest, but were those married men whose will to survive was for their wives and children.

He talked about how he learned during his Navy Seals training about the true meaning of courage . . . that it was not just physical courage in a time of danger, but that it also encompassed the personal fortitude to endure.

Travis Manion's sister spoke briefly before Eric Greitens did, and she told the story behind "If not me, then who?"

Before Travis had left for his second tour of Iraq, the one that got him killed trying to rescue his fellow Marines, he was at an Eagles game and going down some stairs with his brother-in-law.

His B-I-L joked that he should push Travis down the stairs so that he'd fracture his ankle and wouldn't have to go. Travis turned to him and simply said, "If not me, then who?"

She also told another story from his childhood in Doylestown. There aren't that many black folk here now, and there were almost none then, but one was a schoolmate of the then ten year old Travis.

They were in an ice cream shop together, and his black friend kept trying to order, but the clerk kept ignoring him. So Travis went up and ordered a cone, and the clerk promptly served him. Travis then handed the cone to his buddy, and told the clerk they would never be back in his shop again.

Travis never told his family this story. They only found out after Travis's death, when that now grown kid traveled a long distance to their house to tell them of it.

Men like Travis Manion and Eric Greitens hold the TRUE warrior spirit in their hearts. They make me damn proud of the very best of the Corps!

Semper Fi.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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If only the use of the military had standards coming close to their qualifications.

There are a lot of good people, and some great people, in every army.

They aren't always used for the best purposes - those purposes are more influenced by servicing the interests of a few powerful interests more than people like to admit.

War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today.
- John Kennedy
 

a777pilot

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Apr 26, 2011
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If only the use of the military had standards coming close to their qualifications.

There are a lot of good people, and some great people, in every army.

They aren't always used for the best purposes - those purposes are more influenced by servicing the interests of a few powerful interests more than people like to admit.

You quoted JFK:

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."

I find that strange coming from a man, JFK, that had one head of state assassinated (Ngo Dinh Diem) and tried to kill another (Castro).
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Was there something political about this? Seems like too fine a subject for dirty old P&N.

"If Not Me, Then Who?"

Interesting context surrounding those words, given the Iraq war. I could argue on the merits of him being over there in the first place and the way I could apply his own words to this scenario.

I'll just surmise that we've lost some fine young men / women over there, and this country will miss them dearly. Their character makes them irreplaceable.

He said those who survived were not necessarily the best athletes at all, but were those who cared most about helping the guy next to them survive, who were able to come out of themselves and care about something larger.

Oh that's curious. Certainly there is a minimum physical requirement to such grueling ordeals. I could go on about a greater societal meaning you may wish to make, given the statements, but may not be appropriate for the subject.

Thanks for presenting something to think about.
 

momeNt

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Jan 26, 2011
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You quoted JFK:

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."

I find that strange coming from a man, JFK, that had one head of state assassinated (Ngo Dinh Diem) and tried to kill another (Castro).

You can have a long term ideology, and an "in the mean time" strategy. :)
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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You quoted JFK:

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."

I find that strange coming from a man, JFK, that had one head of state assassinated (Ngo Dinh Diem) and tried to kill another (Castro).

Actually, JFK did not 'have Diem assassinated', he tried to prevent it, it's much more complicated than you realize.

Rather, Kennedy's team, especially his Republican ambassador to Vietnam, Henry Cabot Lodge, working with the CIA had a determination to remove him.

I'd recommend a book with the history, but we both know you wouldn't read it.

The history with Castro is even more complicated. Bobby did secretly run a program for covert violence against Cuba -but the CIA was out of control.

By the time JFK was assassinated, he was pursuing peace with Castro.
 

momeNt

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Jan 26, 2011
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Actually, JFK did not 'have Diem assassinated', he tried to prevent it, it's much more complicated than you realize.

Rather, Kennedy's team, especially his Republican ambassador to Vietnam, Henry Cabot Lodge, working with the CIA had a determination to remove him.

I'd recommend a book with the history, but we both know you wouldn't read it.

The history with Castro is even more complicated. Bobby did secretly run a program for covert violence against Cuba -but the CIA was out of control.

By the time JFK was assassinated, he was pursuing peace with Castro.

Does the same book with history show how his bootlegging daddy made deals with the mafia to get his son in office too! Or is that now conspiracy theory which doesn't qualify as history :(
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Does the same book with history show how his bootlegging daddy made deals with the mafia to get his son in office too! Or is that now conspiracy theory which doesn't qualify as history :(

The bootlegging is lies from his political opponents that still fool some people today.

He was given rights to import some liquor when prohibition ended as an ally of FDR.

There is evidence Joe Kennedy had the mob help JFK in Chicago (with no indication JFK knew of it) - and that it didn't change the result of the national election.

There's evidence of Nixon corrupting the election as well.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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I'm thinking that those who want to discuss JFK should do so in another thread...

As to the servicemen discussed in the OP, my hats off to them.
 

Lemon law

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Nov 6, 2005
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Its an inspiring story and all that, but missing in action is what are we doing it for?

Its somewhat like saying, to use an extreme example, if I don't help my buddies rob banks and gang rape little girls, who else will?

But the fact is and remains, we have many fine people like Perkenose cites, but its all wasted by our political leadership that advocates a corrupt turd of a Afghan government that the Afghan people will never accept.

In short, part of if I don't do it WHO WILL involves saying the emperor wears no clothes when needed. And without that honesty, its just more wasted lives on all sides.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
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Its an inspiring story and all that, but missing in action is what are we doing it for?

Its somewhat like saying, to use an extreme example, if I don't help my buddies rob banks and gang rape little girls, who else will?

But the fact is and remains, we have many fine people like Perkenose cites, but its all wasted by our political leadership that advocates a corrupt turd of a Afghan government that the Afghan people will never accept.

In short, part of if I don't do it WHO WILL involves saying the emperor wears no clothes when needed. And without that honesty, its just more wasted lives on all sides.

I hope your ashamed of yourself for trying to turn Perk's post into more of your political bullshit.

That's very moving Perknose. The overarching message asking "If I don't sacrifice for others, who will?" is particularly poignant considering the financial state our country is in right now. It doesn't just apply to our military.

Semper Fi.
 
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